What type of input is it? Line or mic level?

What about a pad?

-J

Steven Dillon wrote:

All,
Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?
I'm running direct outs right to the board, but the incoming signals are
just
too hot. I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the faders
by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that are bringing
a little bit of unwanted distortion. I could just drop the faders even more
until I don't get any peaks, but was wondering if there is another way of
leveling the incoming signals...

Thanks in advance,

Steven Dillon

Steven Dillon wrote:

All,
Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?
I'm running direct outs right to the board, but the incoming signals are
just
too hot. I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the faders
by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that are bringing
a little bit of unwanted distortion. I could just drop the faders even more
until I don't get any peaks, but was wondering if there is another way of
leveling the incoming signals...

Thanks in advance,

Steven Dillon

Line level output connected to a mic level input, perhaps?

Chris

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
but the words of the wise are quiet and few.
--

Direct Out Too Hot

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Thu, Dec 4, 2003, 8:12am (EST-3) From:
(Steven=A0Dillon)
All,
Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?
I'm running direct outs right to the board, but the incoming signals are
just
too hot. I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the faders
by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that are bringing
a little bit of unwanted distortion. I could just drop the faders even
more until I don't get any peaks, but was wondering if there is another
way of leveling the incoming signals...
Thanks in advance,
Steven Dillon

Can you turn down the levels from the source? Check to be sure you're
feeding line level out to line level in and not to mic level in.

Eric

In article WoGzb.9510$Yt4.77@lakeread05,
Steven Dillon wrote:
All,
Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?
I'm running direct outs right to the board, but the incoming signals are
just
too hot. I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the faders
by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that are bringing
a little bit of unwanted distortion. I could just drop the faders even more
until I don't get any peaks, but was wondering if there is another way of
leveling the incoming signals...

It's called a pad. Audio-Technica and Shure both make good ones. You can
get them in fixed values, or you can get adjustable ones. Buy a dozen of
them because you will always find you need more than you have.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Steven Dillon" wrote in message
news:WoGzb.9510$Yt4.77@lakeread05
All,
Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?
I'm running direct outs right to the board, but the incoming signals
are just too hot. I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the
faders by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that
are bringing a little bit of unwanted distortion. I could just drop
the faders even more until I don't get any peaks, but was wondering
if there is another way of leveling the incoming signals...

Sure, they are called pads or attenuators.

Here's the one I use a lot:

http://www.markertek.com/MTStore/pro...aseItem=AT8202

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
It's called a pad. Audio-Technica and Shure both make good ones. You can
get them in fixed values, or you can get adjustable ones. Buy a dozen of
them because you will always find you need more than you have.
--scott

I need some 1/4" pads; know where to find them?

All,
Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?
I'm running direct outs right to the board, but the incoming signals are
just
too hot. I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the faders
by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that are bringing
a little bit of unwanted distortion. I could just drop the faders even more
until I don't get any peaks, but was wondering if there is another way of
leveling the incoming signals...

Thanks in advance,

Steven Dillon

In article ,
Thomas Bishop wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
It's called a pad. Audio-Technica and Shure both make good ones. You can
get them in fixed values, or you can get adjustable ones. Buy a dozen of
them because you will always find you need more than you have.

I need some 1/4" pads; know where to find them?

It's easier to make your own than to find them, I think.

But the last I looked, Radio Shack had some 1/4" TS pads in the book.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article WoGzb.9510$Yt4.77@lakeread05 writes:

Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?

How about the input trim control?

I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the faders
by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that are bringing
a little bit of unwanted distortion.

What are you running into which inputs? If you're running nominal
+4 dBu line level signals into the XLR mic inputs because you want to
connect XLR-to-XLR (or at least balanced to balanced) then you need to
fix that. You can get 10 or 20 dB pads, or you can turn down the
output level of the device you're feeding to the inputs.

By the way, direct outputs are typically (but not always) ahead of the
faders, so turning those down won't help, as you've probably
discovered already.

If you're using a mic into the mic inputs and it's still too hot, you
need a pad ahead of the input (the mic might have a switch for it, or
you might need an external one). And if you're feeding a full scale
slammin' +4 dBu line level device into even nominal +4 dBu line
inputs, that can still be too hot for some consoles (and will
definitely be too hot for -10 dBV nominal inputs).



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
It's easier to make your own than to find them, I think.

But the last I looked, Radio Shack had some 1/4" TS pads in the book.

A quick search of the web site and I don't see any. Soundprofessionals.com
has a cable but they want $25 for it. I need about 16 of them. How would I
go about making my own?

Thomas Bishop wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
It's easier to make your own than to find them, I think.

But the last I looked, Radio Shack had some 1/4" TS pads in the book.

A quick search of the web site and I don't see any. Soundprofessionals.com
has a cable but they want $25 for it. I need about 16 of them. How would I
go about making my own?

Get some TS to TS cables. Put a resistor in series with the line inside one
jack, and a resistor in parallel with it as well.

To calculate the values of the two resistors try the attenuator calculator
at http://www.quadesl.com. It's intended to do numbers for stepped attenuator
ladders but I think you can figure out how to do fixed attenuators with it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Steven Dillon wrote:

All,
Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?
I'm running direct outs right to the board, but the incoming signals are
just
too hot. I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the faders
by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that are bringing
a little bit of unwanted distortion. I could just drop the faders even
more
until I don't get any peaks, but was wondering if there is another way of
leveling the incoming signals...

Thanks in advance,

Steven Dillon

Line level output connected to a mic level input, perhaps?

Chris


If it is a simple +4dBu to -10dBV problem, then an L pad using two resistors
will work well.

I once built 16 of them into an unbalanced patchbay. Worked like a charm.

If you need to drop to mic level, then you are going to need about 40dB of
drop.

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

In article jLHAb.13187$Yt4.6620@lakeread05 writes:

I had the direct out going
into the Mic In (didn't know that those were actually different ohms
levels - I was thinking that they were just either XLR or TRS so that
you could use different cables - DOOOH...).

That'll do it, for sure. And it's not that they're different "ohms
levels" (they are), it's that they have different input sensitivities.

However, thanks for being here when I needed to prove that an example
I gave just a couple of weeks ago is real. I was talking about how to
express gain of a mic preamp when the output is digital (only). I said
that I would be talking to people who thought that the difference
between a mic and line input was only the type of connector, and that
they might understand (and be able to compare) a number for "gain" but
that they wouldn't understand the concept of input sensitivity for a
given output level.

I tried to find an attenuator,
but no one had one and ordering 2 of them for $50 a piece didn't seem
like a good idea. I had a guy make me a converter from XLR to TRS
and I'm just coming in to the Line In now... :-)

If you wanted to connect a line level (direct) output to a mic input,
you'd probably need somewhere in the order of 40 dB rather than the 10
or 20 dB we recommended.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

I had the direct out going
into the Mic In (didn't know that those were actually different ohms
levels

The ohms aren't really the issue, although they could contribute. The main
problem is that the direct out has too high a voltage, and the mike input is
overloaded and generates distortion.

Peace,
Paul

All,
Thanks for all the posts and the information. I had the direct out going
into the Mic In (didn't know that those were actually different ohms
levels - I was thinking that they were just either XLR or TRS so that
you could use different cables - DOOOH...). I tried to find an attenuator,
but no one had one and ordering 2 of them for $50 a piece didn't seem
like a good idea. I had a guy make me a converter from XLR to TRS
and I'm just coming in to the Line In now... :-)

Thanks again,

Steven Dillon

"Steven Dillon" wrote in message
news:WoGzb.9510$Yt4.77@lakeread05...
All,
Does anyone know of a device that can calm a direct out down a little?
I'm running direct outs right to the board, but the incoming signals are
just
too hot. I've got the trim all the way off and have lowered the faders
by almost -20DB and I'm still getting occasional peaks that are bringing
a little bit of unwanted distortion. I could just drop the faders even
more
until I don't get any peaks, but was wondering if there is another way of
leveling the incoming signals...

Thanks in advance,

Steven Dillon

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1070814692k@trad...

However, thanks for being here when I needed to prove that an example
I gave just a couple of weeks ago is real. I was talking about how to
express gain of a mic preamp when the output is digital (only). I said
that I would be talking to people who thought that the difference
between a mic and line input was only the type of connector, and that
they might understand (and be able to compare) a number for "gain" but
that they wouldn't understand the concept of input sensitivity for a
given output level.

Hey Mike,
I actually understand the sensitivity level differences, voltages, ohms,
etc.
Probably not to the level that you guys do, but I did take some electronics
courses and I'm an engineer so I "get" some of it... My deal was I just
didn't
realise that there was a difference and didn't bother to look... I think
that
they should describe those kinds of things in their documentation. Not
that everyone would read it, but, if they described what they were for, I
would
have read it and knew not to try doing what I did... :-(

So, I'm happy to be an example for you. Though I'm not sure how well I
fit the general parameters - "Damn it Jim, I'm a guitar player not a
recording
engineer". ;-)

If you wanted to connect a line level (direct) output to a mic input,
you'd probably need somewhere in the order of 40 dB rather than the 10
or 20 dB we recommended.

This solution was WAY cheaper and I didn't have to worry about db's...

It's all good!

Regards,

Steven Dillon

I think
that
they should describe those kinds of things in their documentation. Not
that everyone would read it, but, if they described what they were for, I
would
have read it and knew not to try doing what I did... :-(

They do describe it. The microphone input sensitivity is a spec that's almost
always given, the main output level is always given. And they put labels on the
microphone inputs that say "Microphone input".

Peace,
Paul

And frequently the text describes what the specs mean in the connection guide.

P Stamler wrote:

I think
that
they should describe those kinds of things in their documentation. Not
that everyone would read it, but, if they described what they were for, I
would
have read it and knew not to try doing what I did... :-(


They do describe it. The microphone input sensitivity is a spec that's almost
always given, the main output level is always given. And they put labels on the
microphone inputs that say "Microphone input".

Peace,
Paul

In article OZRAb.13765$Yt4.13425@lakeread05 writes:

I did take some electronics
courses and I'm an engineer so I "get" some of it... My deal was I just
didn't
realise that there was a difference and didn't bother to look... I think
that
they should describe those kinds of things in their documentation. Not
that everyone would read it, but, if they described what they were for, I
would
have read it and knew not to try doing what I did... :-(

It's really hard to tell how much you should write in the
documentation and how much you should expect the owner to already know
(or at least have enough of a clue about that they investigate and
come to the right conclusion). I've written some manuals and I've been
faced with this on several occaions. The problem is that the customers
for the least expensive equipment (which by necessity has the smallest
budget for documentation) are the ones who need the most extensive
explanations. There just isn't the money for it.

This is why we have trade magazines and the occasoinal book - to
introduce those concepts that apply across the board so you know what
to expect from each common control, input, or output. A couple of
years ago, Mackie contracted with me to write a generic manual for all
of their analog mixers. It was mostly this sort of stuff (using their
products as examples of course), and it was about 300 pages long by
the time I was finished. The idea was that it would be a reference
book that you got when you bought any Mackie mixer, and you'd get a
brief quick start guide which would point out all the controls and
connectors on your particular product. Unfortunately the project was
shelved when Mackie changed directions. It may some day get published
as a downloadable PDF, but it's out of my hands (and ownership) now.

I wish I could recommend a book for you, but I can't. There's probably
one or two out there (the old Mackie Mixer Manual published by
Mixbooks that's out of print) might be a good one if you can find a
copy. Or just download a manual for one of the analog mixers from the
Mackie web site. They're still available (as are all the analog
mixers, though it's no longer Mackie's core product) and Mackie, in
the early days, was very much committed to educating their customers.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo