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Amplifier question - very basic
Hi,
I wish to connect two power amps together. Do I use parallel on both amps and control volume on the bottom amp? Thanks. |
#2
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
I wish to connect two power amps together. Do I use parallel on both amps and control volume on the bottom amp? In general, paralleling modern transistor amps is a good way to start a fire. You can bridge some amplifiers, but not all. Bridging gives you twice the voltage output, but no more current, so if your goal is to drive lower Z loads, it won't help. But if you need to sink more power into an eight-ohm load with amps that can drive four ohms, bridging is the way to go. What are you trying to do? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
I wish to connect two power amps together. Do I use parallel on both amps and control volume on the bottom amp? In general, paralleling modern transistor amps is a good way to start a fire. You can bridge some amplifiers, but not all. Bridging gives you twice the voltage output, but no more current, so if your goal is to drive lower Z loads, it won't help. But if you need to sink more power into an eight-ohm load with amps that can drive four ohms, bridging is the way to go. What are you trying to do? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
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Amplifier question - very basic
Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire.
I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? Doug "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... rothman wrote: I wish to connect two power amps together. Do I use parallel on both amps and control volume on the bottom amp? In general, paralleling modern transistor amps is a good way to start a fire. You can bridge some amplifiers, but not all. Bridging gives you twice the voltage output, but no more current, so if your goal is to drive lower Z loads, it won't help. But if you need to sink more power into an eight-ohm load with amps that can drive four ohms, bridging is the way to go. What are you trying to do? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#5
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Amplifier question - very basic
Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire.
I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? Doug "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... rothman wrote: I wish to connect two power amps together. Do I use parallel on both amps and control volume on the bottom amp? In general, paralleling modern transistor amps is a good way to start a fire. You can bridge some amplifiers, but not all. Bridging gives you twice the voltage output, but no more current, so if your goal is to drive lower Z loads, it won't help. But if you need to sink more power into an eight-ohm load with amps that can drive four ohms, bridging is the way to go. What are you trying to do? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#6
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? No, you cannot parallel modern amps, as I said. You can bridge them, if the amplifiers are capable of bridging. That gives you considerably more power. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#7
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? No, you cannot parallel modern amps, as I said. You can bridge them, if the amplifiers are capable of bridging. That gives you considerably more power. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#8
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Amplifier question - very basic
Scott Dorsey wrote:
rothman wrote: Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? No, you cannot parallel modern amps, as I said. You can bridge them, if the amplifiers are capable of bridging. That gives you considerably more power. To the original poster: I think what Scott is suggesting is that you can take your 2 amps, which are probably stereo, run each one in bridged mode, each one driving a single speaker. But only if the amps are capable of being bridged. Bridging a stereo amp renders it as a mono amp but driving about twice as much power. But in can only be done on certain amps. Some amps provide a bridge switch on them, and then you use the two red outputs to drive one speaker. Rob R. |
#9
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Amplifier question - very basic
Scott Dorsey wrote:
rothman wrote: Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? No, you cannot parallel modern amps, as I said. You can bridge them, if the amplifiers are capable of bridging. That gives you considerably more power. To the original poster: I think what Scott is suggesting is that you can take your 2 amps, which are probably stereo, run each one in bridged mode, each one driving a single speaker. But only if the amps are capable of being bridged. Bridging a stereo amp renders it as a mono amp but driving about twice as much power. But in can only be done on certain amps. Some amps provide a bridge switch on them, and then you use the two red outputs to drive one speaker. Rob R. |
#10
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Amplifier question - very basic
"rothman" wrote
Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? The first thing I would experiment is with the placement of all of your speakers. (Including those on guitar amps etc.) A speaker on a guitar amp can be heard much more clearly when it is reasonably close to and pointing at your ear. There are stands which are made to elevate and tilt combo's but you can also use chairs and tables etc. or just lean the amp back against a wall. Now that everyone has their amp pointed in the right direction you will find that the amplifiers can all be turned down a few notches and everyone can hear a lot better. Please remember this when performing live too. Oh and if your 12" speakers are still too soft you can add another pair in parrallel or powered by a seperate amp. You might also think about arranging your music so that their is some space for the vocals. -- Anthony Gosnell to reply remove nospam. |
#11
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Amplifier question - very basic
"rothman" wrote
Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? The first thing I would experiment is with the placement of all of your speakers. (Including those on guitar amps etc.) A speaker on a guitar amp can be heard much more clearly when it is reasonably close to and pointing at your ear. There are stands which are made to elevate and tilt combo's but you can also use chairs and tables etc. or just lean the amp back against a wall. Now that everyone has their amp pointed in the right direction you will find that the amplifiers can all be turned down a few notches and everyone can hear a lot better. Please remember this when performing live too. Oh and if your 12" speakers are still too soft you can add another pair in parrallel or powered by a seperate amp. You might also think about arranging your music so that their is some space for the vocals. -- Anthony Gosnell to reply remove nospam. |
#12
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Amplifier question - very basic
Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Then how do they connect all those multiple amps on say a stadium tour? just curious. Doug "Rob Reedijk" wrote in message ... Scott Dorsey wrote: rothman wrote: Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? No, you cannot parallel modern amps, as I said. You can bridge them, if the amplifiers are capable of bridging. That gives you considerably more power. To the original poster: I think what Scott is suggesting is that you can take your 2 amps, which are probably stereo, run each one in bridged mode, each one driving a single speaker. But only if the amps are capable of being bridged. Bridging a stereo amp renders it as a mono amp but driving about twice as much power. But in can only be done on certain amps. Some amps provide a bridge switch on them, and then you use the two red outputs to drive one speaker. Rob R. |
#13
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Amplifier question - very basic
Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Then how do they connect all those multiple amps on say a stadium tour? just curious. Doug "Rob Reedijk" wrote in message ... Scott Dorsey wrote: rothman wrote: Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? No, you cannot parallel modern amps, as I said. You can bridge them, if the amplifiers are capable of bridging. That gives you considerably more power. To the original poster: I think what Scott is suggesting is that you can take your 2 amps, which are probably stereo, run each one in bridged mode, each one driving a single speaker. But only if the amps are capable of being bridged. Bridging a stereo amp renders it as a mono amp but driving about twice as much power. But in can only be done on certain amps. Some amps provide a bridge switch on them, and then you use the two red outputs to drive one speaker. Rob R. |
#14
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Amplifier question - very basic
anthony wrote:
Oh and if your 12" speakers are still too soft you can add another pair in parallel or powered by a separate amp. That is another question. My speakers do have an extra jack that it says is wired in parallel. Can you simply daisy chain speakers without adding resistance on one amp? Is this a fire hazard too? They are 8 Ohm speakers. Thanks Doug "anthony.gosnell" wrote in message ... "rothman" wrote Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? The first thing I would experiment is with the placement of all of your speakers. (Including those on guitar amps etc.) A speaker on a guitar amp can be heard much more clearly when it is reasonably close to and pointing at your ear. There are stands which are made to elevate and tilt combo's but you can also use chairs and tables etc. or just lean the amp back against a wall. Now that everyone has their amp pointed in the right direction you will find that the amplifiers can all be turned down a few notches and everyone can hear a lot better. Please remember this when performing live too. Oh and if your 12" speakers are still too soft you can add another pair in parrallel or powered by a seperate amp. You might also think about arranging your music so that their is some space for the vocals. -- Anthony Gosnell to reply remove nospam. |
#15
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Amplifier question - very basic
anthony wrote:
Oh and if your 12" speakers are still too soft you can add another pair in parallel or powered by a separate amp. That is another question. My speakers do have an extra jack that it says is wired in parallel. Can you simply daisy chain speakers without adding resistance on one amp? Is this a fire hazard too? They are 8 Ohm speakers. Thanks Doug "anthony.gosnell" wrote in message ... "rothman" wrote Thank you Scott...I was worried about starting a fire. I want to get more power to two 12" speakers with an 8 Ohm load. My amps put out best at 4 Ohms. It's for rehearsal and the 200 watts stereo from a 4 Ohm amp to 8 Ohm speakers is not loud enough to do vocals over all our noise. So use parallel? The first thing I would experiment is with the placement of all of your speakers. (Including those on guitar amps etc.) A speaker on a guitar amp can be heard much more clearly when it is reasonably close to and pointing at your ear. There are stands which are made to elevate and tilt combo's but you can also use chairs and tables etc. or just lean the amp back against a wall. Now that everyone has their amp pointed in the right direction you will find that the amplifiers can all be turned down a few notches and everyone can hear a lot better. Please remember this when performing live too. Oh and if your 12" speakers are still too soft you can add another pair in parrallel or powered by a seperate amp. You might also think about arranging your music so that their is some space for the vocals. -- Anthony Gosnell to reply remove nospam. |
#16
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Amplifier question - very basic
"rothman" wrote in message
Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Then how do they connect all those multiple amps on say a stadium tour? just curious. (1) Multiple speakers or at least multiple speaker drivers, generally quite visible. (2) Bridged mode as appropriate. |
#17
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Amplifier question - very basic
"rothman" wrote in message
Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Then how do they connect all those multiple amps on say a stadium tour? just curious. (1) Multiple speakers or at least multiple speaker drivers, generally quite visible. (2) Bridged mode as appropriate. |
#18
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Check the manuals for your amps. Follow the manuals' instructions. Do your amps have bridging switches on them? Many don't. Rob R. |
#19
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Check the manuals for your amps. Follow the manuals' instructions. Do your amps have bridging switches on them? Many don't. Rob R. |
#20
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Amplifier question - very basic
Yes they have a bridged mono switch. The amp manual is sh*t, that is why I
came here. "Rob Reedijk" wrote in message ... rothman wrote: Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Check the manuals for your amps. Follow the manuals' instructions. Do your amps have bridging switches on them? Many don't. Rob R. |
#21
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Amplifier question - very basic
Yes they have a bridged mono switch. The amp manual is sh*t, that is why I
came here. "Rob Reedijk" wrote in message ... rothman wrote: Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Check the manuals for your amps. Follow the manuals' instructions. Do your amps have bridging switches on them? Many don't. Rob R. |
#22
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Right. When you bridge an amp, you are putting both sides of the amp in series, so they are producing twice the voltage. Then how do they connect all those multiple amps on say a stadium tour? In most cases, they just have one amplifier per driver. Often you'll have a a whole lot of drivers in the speaker arrays, and each one gets an amp and some processing. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#23
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
Thank You, Thank You......Rob, that was very helpful information. So..Switch to bridged mono on each amp....feed each amp a different signal....and connect a single speaker to each amp using both positive terminals on each amp. Is this my understanding? Right. When you bridge an amp, you are putting both sides of the amp in series, so they are producing twice the voltage. Then how do they connect all those multiple amps on say a stadium tour? In most cases, they just have one amplifier per driver. Often you'll have a a whole lot of drivers in the speaker arrays, and each one gets an amp and some processing. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#24
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
anthony wrote: Oh and if your 12" speakers are still too soft you can add another pair in parallel or powered by a separate amp. That is another question. My speakers do have an extra jack that it says is wired in parallel. Can you simply daisy chain speakers without adding resistance on one amp? Is this a fire hazard too? They are 8 Ohm speakers. If you parallel two 8 ohm speakers, they are presenting a 4 ohm load to the amplifier. This is fine if your amp is rated to handle a 4 ohm load, though when you bridge the amplifier you are only able to drive twice the impedance that each side of the amplifier can drive. If your problem is that you cannot get enough power into the speaker, running multiple speakers off one amp will make your problem worse. All this stuff is discussed in the FAQ, or in the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#25
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Amplifier question - very basic
rothman wrote:
anthony wrote: Oh and if your 12" speakers are still too soft you can add another pair in parallel or powered by a separate amp. That is another question. My speakers do have an extra jack that it says is wired in parallel. Can you simply daisy chain speakers without adding resistance on one amp? Is this a fire hazard too? They are 8 Ohm speakers. If you parallel two 8 ohm speakers, they are presenting a 4 ohm load to the amplifier. This is fine if your amp is rated to handle a 4 ohm load, though when you bridge the amplifier you are only able to drive twice the impedance that each side of the amplifier can drive. If your problem is that you cannot get enough power into the speaker, running multiple speakers off one amp will make your problem worse. All this stuff is discussed in the FAQ, or in the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#26
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Amplifier question - very basic
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#27
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Amplifier question - very basic
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#28
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Amplifier question - very basic
Graham Hinton wrote: Normally an amp drives between its output and ground (the black terminal). If the power rail are +/- V volts the maximum voltage across the speaker is V volts. In bridge mode the inputs of both amp channels are connected together *but one is inverted* so when one output is +V the other is -V and the voltage between the two red terminals is 2V. Doubling the voltage quadruples the power = V^2/R. Which is why they also specify twice the load impedance (R here) to only supply twice the power so as not to exceed the current rating of the amps. |
#29
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Amplifier question - very basic
Graham Hinton wrote: Normally an amp drives between its output and ground (the black terminal). If the power rail are +/- V volts the maximum voltage across the speaker is V volts. In bridge mode the inputs of both amp channels are connected together *but one is inverted* so when one output is +V the other is -V and the voltage between the two red terminals is 2V. Doubling the voltage quadruples the power = V^2/R. Which is why they also specify twice the load impedance (R here) to only supply twice the power so as not to exceed the current rating of the amps. |
#30
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Amplifier question - very basic
Just out of curiosity... what brand?
rothman wrote... Yes they have a bridged mono switch. The amp manual is sh*t, that is why I came here. |
#31
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Amplifier question - very basic
Just out of curiosity... what brand?
rothman wrote... Yes they have a bridged mono switch. The amp manual is sh*t, that is why I came here. |
#32
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Amplifier question - very basic
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#33
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Amplifier question - very basic
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#34
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Amplifier question - very basic
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
When you bridge an amp, you are putting both sides of the amp in series, so they are producing twice the voltage. (Graham Hinton) wrote: I think I know what you meant to say, but it didn't come out right. Chris Hornbeck wrote: On the contrary; Scott was exactly right. The amplifiers appear in series to the load. Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd amp. That wouldn't be cool. ulysses |
#35
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Amplifier question - very basic
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
When you bridge an amp, you are putting both sides of the amp in series, so they are producing twice the voltage. (Graham Hinton) wrote: I think I know what you meant to say, but it didn't come out right. Chris Hornbeck wrote: On the contrary; Scott was exactly right. The amplifiers appear in series to the load. Right, but when you say "in series" it sounds like you're talking about taking the output of one amp and plugging it into the input of the 2nd amp. That wouldn't be cool. ulysses |
#36
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Amplifier question - very basic
anthony.gosnell wrote:
Now that everyone has their amp pointed in the right direction you will find that the amplifiers can all be turned down a few notches and everyone can hear a lot better. Please remember this when performing live too. You're not a guitar player, are you? Output volume level has almost nothing to do with where a guitarist sets his amplifier's gain control. ulysses |
#37
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Amplifier question - very basic
anthony.gosnell wrote:
Now that everyone has their amp pointed in the right direction you will find that the amplifiers can all be turned down a few notches and everyone can hear a lot better. Please remember this when performing live too. You're not a guitar player, are you? Output volume level has almost nothing to do with where a guitarist sets his amplifier's gain control. ulysses |
#38
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Amplifier question - very basic
anthony.gosnell wrote:
"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote: You're not a guitar player, are you? Output volume level has almost nothing to do with where a guitarist sets his amplifier's gain control. If you want distortion you should overload your pre-amp. You would be much better off getting a valve preamp and adding a couple of extra stages before the output valves. In general I agree, but I know plenty of guitarists who get fabulous tone who do not agree. They like the distortion from power tubes and/or speakers being stressed and/or cabinets resonating. The ones in that group who are sensitive to SPL use little amps, speakers that are easily overdriven and flimsy cabinets, or sealed cabs to pull doen SPL while givng the amp something to wrestle with. There is as little point in telling a guitarist how to get sound as there would be telling a violinist what strings or which rosin to use. We get good guitarists and ****ty guitarists, and good violinists and ****ty violinists, but it's their gig, not ours. When the sound person starts speaking in terms of "You should..." communication generally starts to deteriorate rapidly. There are many highways to great amplified instrument sounds and often someone has already chosen the route they prefer. I may or may not agree, but that's life. -- hank alrich * secret mountain audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement "If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose" |
#39
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Amplifier question - very basic
anthony.gosnell wrote:
"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote: You're not a guitar player, are you? Output volume level has almost nothing to do with where a guitarist sets his amplifier's gain control. If you want distortion you should overload your pre-amp. You would be much better off getting a valve preamp and adding a couple of extra stages before the output valves. In general I agree, but I know plenty of guitarists who get fabulous tone who do not agree. They like the distortion from power tubes and/or speakers being stressed and/or cabinets resonating. The ones in that group who are sensitive to SPL use little amps, speakers that are easily overdriven and flimsy cabinets, or sealed cabs to pull doen SPL while givng the amp something to wrestle with. There is as little point in telling a guitarist how to get sound as there would be telling a violinist what strings or which rosin to use. We get good guitarists and ****ty guitarists, and good violinists and ****ty violinists, but it's their gig, not ours. When the sound person starts speaking in terms of "You should..." communication generally starts to deteriorate rapidly. There are many highways to great amplified instrument sounds and often someone has already chosen the route they prefer. I may or may not agree, but that's life. -- hank alrich * secret mountain audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement "If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose" |
#40
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Amplifier question - very basic
"anthony.gosnell" wrote:
"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote You're not a guitar player, are you? Output volume level has almost nothing to do with where a guitarist sets his amplifier's gain control. If you want distortion you should overload your pre-amp. You would be much better off getting a valve preamp and adding a couple of extra stages before the output valves. Anthony Gosnell While that sounds like a great thing in theory ( and essentially provided the business model for Mesa Boogie amplifiers ), it is not exactly the same thing. This is why people buy and use Fender Champs for recording. -- Les Cargill |
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