[x]

*Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my
friends lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now
that I remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we
enjoyed the sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped,
you had to drop cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling
ball held overhead from the diving board and this produced a wonderful
sound and splash (it's best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder
what it would have sounded like underwater. Does anyone know if such
sound effects exist and how would you record such a sound underwater?
An underwater video would be interesting too.

Thanks, mr. x
*

[Richard Crowley]

"x" wrote ...
*Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my friends
lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now that I
remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we enjoyed the
sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped, you had to drop
cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling ball held overhead
from the diving board and this produced a wonderful sound and splash (it's
best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder what it would have sounded
like underwater. Does anyone know if such sound effects exist and how
would you record such a sound underwater? An underwater video would be
interesting too.

http://www.instructables.com has several articles on making
your own hydrophone (underwater microphone) or under-
water camera.

[Don Pearce]

x wrote:
*Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my
friends lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now
that I remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we
enjoyed the sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped,
you had to drop cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling
ball held overhead from the diving board and this produced a wonderful
sound and splash (it's best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder
what it would have sounded like underwater. Does anyone know if such
sound effects exist and how would you record such a sound underwater?
An underwater video would be interesting too.

Thanks, mr. x
*


A small omni mic is needed (directional mics aren't directional
underwater). You also need one of those long balloons you use to make
balloon animals - in fact use two for safety. Put the mic inside. Only
put the mic far enough into the water to get sound - don't let the level
go above the neck of the balloon.

For video a sort of periscope is a good idea. Just one angled mirror at
the bottom of a sealed tube, and point the camera downwards. That way
you don't need to worry about sealing it against water.

As for what things sound like underwater - nothing like what you hear on
films. Film sound for noises off (Foley effects) is universally **** - a
total disgrace in fact. Play the real sounds to most theatre audiences
and they won't actually recognise them, so used are they to the nonsense
they hear in cinemas.

d

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , x wrote:
*Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my
friends lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now
that I remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we
enjoyed the sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped,
you had to drop cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling
ball held overhead from the diving board and this produced a wonderful
sound and splash (it's best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder
what it would have sounded like underwater. Does anyone know if such
sound effects exist and how would you record such a sound underwater?
An underwater video would be interesting too.

Down to a couple feet, you can put an SM-57 in a condom and drop it in the
water. You can't get it too deep, though.

More than that and you want a hydrophone. Edmund Scientific used to sell
war-surplus Clevite hydrophones when I was a kid... they were very high-Z
but would be happy into any direct box. I bet some of those turn up on
Ebay.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

Found some hydrophone links you might want to check out, depending how
deep you want to record
http://www.cetaceanresearch.com/hydrophones/index.html
http://www.dolphinear.com/index.htm?...FRMJewodOCPMWw
http://www.aquarianaudio.com/

never used one myself but let us know how it goes.

Michael

[[email protected]]

Hi Mr X,
A search on this newsgroup would have probably brought up the info
that many of use a completely unprotected Countryman B6 omni lavalier
mic in water or underwater situations - quite simply, it is so tiny
that a natural air bubble covers the diaphragm when it goes underwater
(the cable is about 2 meters) and you have a relatively high
sensitivity / low impedance hydrophone right there. If you had one or
could get a cheap used one give it a try. Wash it afterwards if you
use it in salt water etc.

Jez Adamson

[Richard Kuschel]

On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, Don Pearce wrote:
x wrote:

As for what things sound like underwater - nothing like what you hear on
films. Film sound for noises off (Foley effects) is universally **** - a
total disgrace in fact. Play the real sounds to most theatre audiences
and they won't actually recognise them, so used are they to the nonsense
they hear in cinemas.

d

That's for sure. I can't believe that every fish that moves produces a
splashing sound. and that the sound of bubbles seems to be prevalent.
Audiences are so ingrained with incorrect sound that it is difficult
to use real sound.

I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
that took place in 1877.
The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.

At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
is flat prairie land without rock formations?
If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
the sound of it hitting was negligible.
Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
rather than obvious foley.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 06:38:36 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kuschel
wrote:

I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
that took place in 1877.
The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.

At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
is flat prairie land without rock formations?
If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
the sound of it hitting was negligible.
Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
rather than obvious foley.

Did your employers come round to your way of thinking? Or did you (or
someone else) get told to re-record?

[Earl Kiosterud]

"Richard Kuschel" wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, Don Pearce wrote:
x wrote:

That's for sure. I can't believe that every fish that moves produces a
splashing sound. and that the sound of bubbles seems to be prevalent.
Audiences are so ingrained with incorrect sound that it is difficult
to use real sound.


And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop, but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.

There's a show on Discovery HD called Sunrise Earth International. It's just outside
scenes, like jungle, lake, etc, and quite nice. But the audio is odd. In one of a
waterfall shot in Iceland (I think), the rush of water sounded very much as though someone
had put a delay with feedback, giving it a motorboating sound. Very unnatural. In another
jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room reverberation. But
it was outside. Not a wall for miles. It should have sounded very clean and dry. Again
very unnatural. I suspect that the audio techs were essentially kids with toys. The sad
part is that and no one seemed to know they were damaging the show.

--
Earl

[Steve King]

"Earl Kiosterud" wrote in message
news:6fx2k.3041$Xu2.595@trnddc04...
|
| And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a
stop, but doesn't
| even nose down perceptibly.
|
| There's a show on Discovery HD called Sunrise Earth International. It's
just outside
| scenes, like jungle, lake, etc, and quite nice. But the audio is odd. In
one of a
| waterfall shot in Iceland (I think), the rush of water sounded very much
as though someone
| had put a delay with feedback, giving it a motorboating sound. Very
unnatural. In another
| jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room
reverberation. But
| it was outside. Not a wall for miles. It should have sounded very clean
and dry. Again
| very unnatural. I suspect that the audio techs were essentially kids with
toys. The sad
| part is that and no one seemed to know they were damaging the show.
|
| --
| Earl

The first time I hiked through a pine forest near the Kettle Moraine state
park in Wisconsin I was amazed at the sounds I heard as I conversed with my
hiking companion. The pine trees were the Christmas tree type ranging to 20
feet tall with branches right down to the ground planted in rows about 20
feet apart. The effect was like a very, very short reverb with exaggerated
high frequencies, very metallic sounding and very other-worldly. I've
experienced similar sound reflections in the jungle in Costa Rica. So, I
wouldn't be so sure that the recorded sounds you heard were processed.

Steve King

[Ron Capik]

Earl Kiosterud wrote:

"Richard Kuschel" wrote in message
...
On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, Don Pearce wrote:
x wrote:

That's for sure. I can't believe that every fish that moves produces a
splashing sound. and that the sound of bubbles seems to be prevalent.
Audiences are so ingrained with incorrect sound that it is difficult
to use real sound.


And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop, but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.
...snip...
--
Earl

....or feedback when ever someone steps up to a microphone.


Later...

Ron Capik
--

[Richard Crowley]

"Earl Kiosterud" wrote...
There's a show on Discovery HD called Sunrise Earth International. It's
just outside scenes, like jungle, lake, etc, and quite nice. But the
audio is odd. In one of a waterfall shot in Iceland (I think), the rush
of water sounded very much as though someone had put a delay with
feedback, giving it a motorboating sound. Very unnatural. In another
jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room
reverberation. But it was outside. Not a wall for miles. It should have
sounded very clean and dry. Again very unnatural. I suspect that the
audio techs were essentially kids with toys. The sad part is that and no
one seemed to know they were damaging the show.

Traditionally, those hardy cinematographers that went out
shooting all that nature footage were shooting MOS, and
*all* the SFX on the sound track were produced by Foley
artists who specialized in "nature" shots.

Now that everyone is switchcing to HD video and using
cameras with sound, maybe we will start to get some
*actual sound* that was recorded contemporaneous with
the video. Although chances are that if they are using the
camera-mount mic, they will end up with unusable sound
anyway and it will have to be "re-created" in the Foley
stage.

[Charles Tomaras]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
who specialized in "nature" shots.

Now that everyone is switchcing to HD video and using
cameras with sound, maybe we will start to get some
*actual sound* that was recorded contemporaneous with
the video. Although chances are that if they are using the
camera-mount mic, they will end up with unusable sound
anyway and it will have to be "re-created" in the Foley
stage.

Richard....it seems you have no appreciation for the "realism" of the sounds
of zooming, focusing and Velcro?

[Richard Kuschel]

On Jun 7, 8:02 am, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 06:38:36 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kuschel

wrote:
I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
that took place in 1877.
The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.

At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
is flat prairie land without rock formations?
If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
the sound of it hitting was negligible.
Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
rather than obvious foley.

Did your employers come round to your way of thinking? Or did you (or
someone else) get told to re-record?

Fortunately, the director was on site for all the recording. It was he
who was absolutely insistent on accurate rather than "Hollywood"
production.

We did have one little inaccuracy that was noticed by one of the
attendees at the premiere.
The situation was horses crossing a shallow stream. We had failed to
notice that the horses were shod, and Indian ponies would have been
unshod. The steel striking the rock streambed was audible.
She was the only one that noticed.

[Tobiah]

And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop,
but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a dirt road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[Don Pearce]

Tobiah wrote:
And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop,
but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a dirt road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

What about the car chase where by the time the car has reached about
60MPH (which is as fast as they ever go in Hollywood films) the gearbox
has made about thirty audible up-changes.

d

[RDOGuy]

On Jun 7, 10:48*am, Ron Capik wrote:

...or feedback when ever someone steps up to a microphone.

I HATE that. I mean... yeah, it sometimes happens in real life. But
it's as if there's a union rule that if you're sweetening a film that
includes a scene where someone speaks at a podium microphone, there
MUST be feedback.

[DX Dave]

....where someone speaks at a podium microphone, there
MUST be feedback.

and tapping the mic is the best way to fix it.

[RDOGuy]

On Jun 9, 6:52*pm, DX Dave wrote:

and tapping the mic is the best way to fix it.

hehehe... exactly!

[Don Pearce]

Les Cargill wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Tobiah wrote:
And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle
comes to a stop, but doesn't even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a dirt
road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

What about the car chase where by the time the car has reached about
60MPH (which is as fast as they ever go in Hollywood films) the
gearbox has made about thirty audible up-changes.

d


The propeller noise on the jet in the "Airplane!" movies is
priceless.


I think maybe that was done deliberately for comedic effect. On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are just
stupid.

d

[Scott Dorsey]

Don Pearce wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:

The propeller noise on the jet in the "Airplane!" movies is
priceless.

I think maybe that was done deliberately for comedic effect. On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are just
stupid.

Yes, but it was done as a satire of all of those terrible movies that screwed
the effects up.

My favorite was the 3-D spectacular _Swinging Stewardesses_ in which everybody
gets onto a 707, and we cut to the cockpit. Except it's a cockpit of some
sort of four-engined prop plane. Also on takeoff we hear the engines spinning
up... but they aren't actually turning at all.. it's clearly a shot of a parked
plane with sound effects dubbed in...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Jay Rose]

On 2008-06-09 19:52:07 -0400, DX Dave said:

...where someone speaks at a podium microphone, there
MUST be feedback.

and tapping the mic is the best way to fix it.

If you've got one of the Eventide multi-DSP boxes, look for the
algorithm called "PA System".

Among other things, it adds feedback to any incoming signal (room size
/ resonance is variable), and has a button marked "Thunk" which taps
the mic.

(There's also a panic button to kill feedback instantly instead of
letting it die out naturally.)

(I wrote it for them in '95, and it's still in their lineup.)

--
Jay Rose CAS
tutorials and other sound goodies at dplay.com
email is "jay@" plus the dot-com in the previous line.

[jakdedert]

Don Pearce wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Tobiah wrote:
And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle
comes to a stop, but doesn't even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a dirt
road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

What about the car chase where by the time the car has reached about
60MPH (which is as fast as they ever go in Hollywood films) the
gearbox has made about thirty audible up-changes.

d


The propeller noise on the jet in the "Airplane!" movies is
priceless.


I think maybe that was done deliberately for comedic effect. On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are just
stupid.

d

Have you ever been in the vicinity of a jet engine in operation? 130 dB
is nothing to laugh at....

jak

[Don Pearce]

jakdedert wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Tobiah wrote:
And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle
comes to a stop, but doesn't even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a
dirt road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

What about the car chase where by the time the car has reached about
60MPH (which is as fast as they ever go in Hollywood films) the
gearbox has made about thirty audible up-changes.

d


The propeller noise on the jet in the "Airplane!" movies is
priceless.


I think maybe that was done deliberately for comedic effect. On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are
just stupid.

d

Have you ever been in the vicinity of a jet engine in operation? 130 dB
is nothing to laugh at....


Nope, you lost me with that one.

d

[Don Pearce]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
The propeller noise on the jet in the "Airplane!" movies is
priceless.
I think maybe that was done deliberately for comedic effect. On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are just
stupid.

Yes, but it was done as a satire of all of those terrible movies that screwed
the effects up.

My favorite was the 3-D spectacular _Swinging Stewardesses_ in which everybody
gets onto a 707, and we cut to the cockpit. Except it's a cockpit of some
sort of four-engined prop plane. Also on takeoff we hear the engines spinning
up... but they aren't actually turning at all.. it's clearly a shot of a parked
plane with sound effects dubbed in...
--scott

As long as they are doing it deliberately for laughs, that is all fine
by me.

d

[jakdedert]

Don Pearce wrote:
jakdedert wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Tobiah wrote:
And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle
comes to a stop, but doesn't even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a
dirt road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

What about the car chase where by the time the car has reached
about 60MPH (which is as fast as they ever go in Hollywood films)
the gearbox has made about thirty audible up-changes.

d


The propeller noise on the jet in the "Airplane!" movies is
priceless.


I think maybe that was done deliberately for comedic effect. On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are
just stupid.

d

Have you ever been in the vicinity of a jet engine in operation? 130
dB is nothing to laugh at....


Nope, you lost me with that one.

d
In that case, you've lost me as well. I thought we were talking about
sound effects....

jak

[Don Pearce]

jakdedert wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
jakdedert wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Tobiah wrote:
And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle
comes to a stop, but doesn't even nose down perceptibly.

What bothers me time and again, is seeing a car accelerate on a
dirt road,
kicking up dust, accompanied by same screeching sound.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

What about the car chase where by the time the car has reached
about 60MPH (which is as fast as they ever go in Hollywood films)
the gearbox has made about thirty audible up-changes.

d


The propeller noise on the jet in the "Airplane!" movies is
priceless.


I think maybe that was done deliberately for comedic effect. On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are
just stupid.

d

Have you ever been in the vicinity of a jet engine in operation? 130
dB is nothing to laugh at....


Nope, you lost me with that one.

d
In that case, you've lost me as well. I thought we were talking about
sound effects....

jak

we were talking about inadequate foleys - effects that were not
appropriate to what was on the screen. I don't see the relevance of a
130dB jet engine being very noisy. If the picture is of a jet, use a jet
sound, and it doesn't have to be at mega volume. When the picture is a
spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

d

[Scott Dorsey]

Don Pearce wrote:

we were talking about inadequate foleys - effects that were not
appropriate to what was on the screen. I don't see the relevance of a
130dB jet engine being very noisy. If the picture is of a jet, use a jet
sound, and it doesn't have to be at mega volume. When the picture is a
spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

No, when the picture is a spacecraft, they need a Hoover upright vacuum
cleaner sound. Preferably recorded at 15ips and played back at 3 3/4.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Williamson]

Don Pearce wrote:

we were talking about inadequate foleys - effects that were not
appropriate to what was on the screen. I don't see the relevance of a
130dB jet engine being very noisy. If the picture is of a jet, use a jet
sound, and it doesn't have to be at mega volume. When the picture is a
spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

Or go with "2001", & have only effects that you could actually hear if
you were at the camera position.

IMHO, "2010" lost a lot by going with the crowd.

Just my 2 penn'orth.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Mark]

On Jun 10, 9:33*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:

Les Cargill wrote:

The propeller noise on the jet in the "Airplane!" movies is
priceless.

I think maybe that was done deliberately for comedic effect. On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are just
stupid.

Yes, but it was done as a satire of all of those terrible movies that screwed
the effects up.

My favorite was the 3-D spectacular _Swinging Stewardesses_ in which everybody
gets onto a 707, and we cut to the cockpit. *Except it's a cockpit of some
sort of four-engined prop plane. *Also on takeoff we hear the engines spinning
up... but they aren't actually turning at all.. it's clearly a shot of a parked
plane with sound effects dubbed in...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

we're on a roll he

http://www.filmsound.org/cliche/

Mark

[Don Pearce]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
we were talking about inadequate foleys - effects that were not
appropriate to what was on the screen. I don't see the relevance of a
130dB jet engine being very noisy. If the picture is of a jet, use a jet
sound, and it doesn't have to be at mega volume. When the picture is a
spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

No, when the picture is a spacecraft, they need a Hoover upright vacuum
cleaner sound. Preferably recorded at 15ips and played back at 3 3/4.
--scott


Surely it is two coconut shells tapped together - or was that for a man
falling off a roof? I tend to get confused these days.

d

[Don Pearce]

John Williamson wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:

we were talking about inadequate foleys - effects that were not
appropriate to what was on the screen. I don't see the relevance of a
130dB jet engine being very noisy. If the picture is of a jet, use a
jet sound, and it doesn't have to be at mega volume. When the picture
is a spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

Or go with "2001", & have only effects that you could actually hear if
you were at the camera position.

IMHO, "2010" lost a lot by going with the crowd.

Just my 2 penn'orth.


Amen to all of that.

d

[Martin Griffith]

On 10 Jun 2008 14:37:39 -0400, in rec.arts.movies.production.sound
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

we were talking about inadequate foleys - effects that were not
appropriate to what was on the screen. I don't see the relevance of a
130dB jet engine being very noisy. If the picture is of a jet, use a jet
sound, and it doesn't have to be at mega volume. When the picture is a
spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

No, when the picture is a spacecraft, they need a Hoover upright vacuum
cleaner sound. Preferably recorded at 15ips and played back at 3 3/4.
--scott


NAB or IEC?


martin

[Jay Rose]

On 2008-06-10 14:24:29 -0400, Don Pearce said:

When the picture is a spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

.... which is why just about every spaceship "whooshes" when it crosses
camera in outer space?


--
Jay Rose CAS
tutorials and other sound goodies at dplay.com
email is "jay@" plus the dot-com in the previous line.

[Greg Simmons]

On Jun 8, 12:50*am, "Earl Kiosterud" wrote:

In another
jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room reverberation. *But
it was outside. *Not a wall for miles. *It should have sounded very clean and dry.

Not necessarily... I make many recordings in jungle and rainforest
areas from Borneo to Nepal, and am often surprised at the level of
'reverberation' (diffuse sound field is probably a better description)
they can produce. Especially in the dense hardwood forests in the
Terai region in Nepal. I've got a recording of distant elephant
trumpeting that you would swear had large reverberation added to it.
Likewise with swamp recordings, if the swamp borders a forested area.
The sound travels across the swamp water and produces a diffuse
slapback off the forest edge - this is particularly strong at night
time, when many frog recordings are made. The combination of cool air
immediately above the water and the warmer layer above it create a
channel that carries sound very well across the water to the forest
edge and then back again to the listener/microphone. Like the
reverberation, it can be hard to believe when listening back.

- Greg Simmons

[Don Pearce]

Jay Rose wrote:
On 2008-06-10 14:24:29 -0400, Don Pearce said:

When the picture is a spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

... which is why just about every spaceship "whooshes" when it crosses
camera in outer space?



Nope, you can pretty much always hear a turbine whining. Of course if we
want to be really picky, there should be no noise at all.

d

[Greg Simmons]

On Jun 10, 5:13*pm, Don Pearce wrote:


On the
other hand the jet engines that appear able to power spacecraft are just
stupid.

Especially when the spacecraft is shot passing overhead with enormous
rumbling, as in the opening scene of Star Wars Episode 4 (or whatever
number it was, the first one he made). Being a vacuum, there's nothing
to carry sound from the spacecraft to the listener. The only thing
you'd hear from the camera position is the internal noises of your
space suit's life support system!

Kubrick got it right in '2001' by using classical music during all of
the, er, outdoor, space scenes. It put across the sensation of silence
very nicely, IMHO.

[Scott Dorsey]

Don Pearce wrote:
Jay Rose wrote:
On 2008-06-10 14:24:29 -0400, Don Pearce said:

When the picture is a spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.

... which is why just about every spaceship "whooshes" when it crosses
camera in outer space?

Nope, you can pretty much always hear a turbine whining. Of course if we
want to be really picky, there should be no noise at all.

Very few films actually have silent passages. _M_ and 2001 are probably the
best examples of the use of silence that I can think of.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
Jay Rose wrote:
On 2008-06-10 14:24:29 -0400, Don Pearce said:

When the picture is a spacecraft, they need a rocket sound.
... which is why just about every spaceship "whooshes" when it crosses
camera in outer space?

Nope, you can pretty much always hear a turbine whining. Of course if we
want to be really picky, there should be no noise at all.

Very few films actually have silent passages. _M_ and 2001 are probably the
best examples of the use of silence that I can think of.
--scott

And isn't the effect brilliant when they do?

d

[Uncle Bob]

Hi All!

I don’t chime in often, as I do audio post (half of my preproduction
time is trying to convince the producer(s) and director to hire a
competent sound crew rather than handing the boom to whichever PA has
nothing to do).

Narrative filmmaking has nothing to do with reality, and the sound
design is often representational rather than “actual reality” (if
there is such a term); the purpose of sound design is to enhance the
experience. Quite often, the actual sound does not sound like it does
in real life or would get lost in the mix. (Randy Thoms law – if you
see a pistol, use a rifle; is you see a rifle, use a shotgun, if you
see a shotgun… etc.) However, I do agree that some sonic movie
clichés are very, very overused. The same is true of many visuals,
such as cars blowing up when they crash. Or how about when the guy
who gets shot goes flying back 10 feet; if that were true, the shooter
would also be pushed back by the force of the weapon. Besides, if the
guy who gets shot is getting pushed back the bullet isn’t penetrating,
which is what it is really supposed to do, right?

I agree with the precept that documentaries should only use the actual
sounds, even if they are added in audio post for esthetic or technical
reasons.




From filmsound.org

Film Sound Cliches

Film Sound Stereotypes and Common Logic Flaws

ANIMALS

* Animals are never ever silent - dogs whine/bark/yip, cats meow
or purr, cows moo, even in cases where most animals wouldn't be
making a sound.

* Rats, mice, squirels and other vermin always make the tiny
little squeeky noises constantly while they are on screen.

* Dolphins always make that same "dolphin chatter" sound when
spinning, jumping, etc.

* Snakes are always rattling

* Crickets in winter and peepers in the fall

* Dogs always know who's bad, and bark at them.

* Insects always sound wet.

* It's the same Cat scream over & over.

Sound effects editor Peter Steinbach once tried to record his
own cat scream by stepping on its tail. His advice: - You only have
one take. Step hard! (and don’t wear shorts)


BIRDS

* Red-tailed hawk.

Whenever we see a hawk or a bald eagle, the sound is always
that same red-tailed hawk screeching sound that's been around since
the 50's!

Always just before/or after some dramatic part of an
adventure flick, you will here the screeching of a red-tailed hawk.

Whenever a cliff or mountain is shown, especially if it's
high, the Red-tailed hawk will screech.

The Red-Tailed Hawk scree signifies outdoors and a big,
lonely place

* Owls sound like Great Horned Owl. (a bird, that for the most
part seems invisible)

* In a horror film when there is a full moon there is either an
owl or a wolf howling in the distance.

* The Loon is mostly found in lakes in North America. In the
movies it seems to be just about anywhere in the world.

* Kookaburras (a type of large Australian kingfisher) are
inhabitants of African/South American jungles, not Australian open
forest. (laughing bird sound, see most Tarzan films).

A Field Guide to Hollywood Bird Songs
Unnatural acts on movie soundtracks by Robert Winkler

BICYCLES


* All bicycles have bells (that sound)


BOMBS & EXPLOSIONS

* Bombs always have big, blinking, beeping timer displays.

* If something explodes, it takes about a minute for the
explosions to stop

* Explosions always happen in slow motion. When an explosion
occurs, make certain you are running away from the point of detonation
so the blast can send you flying, in slow motion, toward the camera.

* Bombs "whistle" when falling from a plane


CARS

* Car tires "always" screech on dirt roads.

* Car breaks must always squeak

* Car tires must always squeal when the car turns, pulls away or
stops

* On big budget films- whenever a car does any maneuver It must
accelerate - ideally to the point of peeling out! even if it is going
under 20mph

* In a route we hear a large truck and a horn with Doppler effect

COMPUTERS

* Every button you press on a computer makes some kind of beep

* Text being spelled out on screen (whether computer or lower
third) MUST make some sort of typing and/or dot-matrix-printer type of
sound.

* In foreign language versions of u.s. movies computers show their
messages in English, but they all can speak!


ENVIRONMENT


* Castle Thunder
Until around the late '80s, whenever you heard a thunderclap in
a movie, it was probably "Castle Thunder".


* Storms start instantaneously: there's a crack of thunder and
lightning, then heavy rain starts falling.

* Thunder is always in sync with the lightning, and the explosion
sounds are always in sync with the stuff blowing up, no matter how far
away. Same for fireworks

* Whistleing types of wind are always used

* Non-stop bubbles underwater

* Doors always squeak

* Environmental sound to a shoot with the window open, are always
next to a schoolyard or a construction-site.

* When in San Francisco, no matter where you are, you always hear
a cable car and or a foghorn.

* The Universal Telephone Ring
Endlessly used on television (especially in TV shows produced at
Universal Studios during the '70s and '80s) and in many films as well
- is the sound of a telephone ringing.


* Exterior Ambiences: No matter where you are outside, if it's not
in the city, you hear a lonely cricket chirping

* Trains: we always hear the same old classic distant train horn
over and over again.

* In U.S. films playing in big cities there's always a police horn
in the background - in films from other countries... never!!!!

* When a light bulb gets broken, there's always a kind of electric
sound

* Whenever there is a fight or commotion going on in the upstairs
of a house, the person downstairs won't hear a thing because the noise
of gunshots, chairs falling over, screams etc will be totally masked
by the following sounds; the phone ringing, the washing machine
beginning its spin cycle, the dog barking, a drink is being whizzed up
in the liquidizer or the maid beginning the vacuum cleaning. .


HELICOPTERS & AIRPLANES

* Helicopters always fly from surround to front-speakers.

* People standing outside a running helicopter can always talk in
normal or just slightly louder than normal voices

* Every helicopter shutting down emits the chirp-chirp-chirp sound
of the rubber drive belts disengaging, in spite of the fact that only
the famous Bell 47G (the Mash chopper) actually makes this sound.

* Piston helicopters always start up with screaming turbine engine
sounds.

* An approaching airplane or helicopter will make no noise until
it is directly over the characters, at which point it will suddenly
become thunderingly loud.

* Characters will never hear an approaching airplane or
helicopter, even though in real life you would hear them approaching
for at least a minute before they were close enough to see. This also
holds true for approaching armies on horseback and tank battalions.

* The tires of any jet screech upon landing

* Any airplane in a dive will make a whining noise that will get
louder and higher-pitched the longer the dive lasts.



KNIFE

* When a character pulls out a knife, even from his pants, you
hear a sound of metal brushing metal


LANGUAGE & VOICE

* The WILHELM Scream
A series of short painful screams performed by an actor were
recorded in 1951 for the Warner Brother's film "Distant Drums." They
were used for a scene where a man is bitten and dragged underwater by
an alligator. The recording was archived into the studio's sound
effects library -- and it was used in many of their films since. "Star
Wars" Sound Designer Ben Burtt tracked down the scream recording -
which he named "Wilhelm" from a character who let out the same scream
in "Charge at Feather River (1953)." Ben has adopted the scream as
sort of a personal sound signature, and has worked it into as many
films as he can.


* Even when depicted as foreigners (including aliens from outer
space) all actors speak and understand a common language (usually
English) unless the film's plot depends on a language barrier.

* The same women's recorded voice is heard in every spaceship,
space station, government building, etc. announcing something to the
effect of the main computer has been shut down, this ship will self
destruct in one minute.

* Baby crying and bad news

The Godfather: when Don Corleone is shot, Sonny barges in to
his house and announces this. Followed by baby crying.

Snow Falling on Cedars: the sheriff announces to a woman
that her fisherman husband is dead. Followed by baby crying

* Kids can always whisper even if their two inchs away from a
villain - he won't hear. If they step on a branch however, the
villains will immediately know its not some animal, and catch them.

* Scream
Whenever someone falls off of a cliff or building, no matter
how much damage they take beforehand, they scream, even if they were
shot through the lungs twenty or thirty times, or were apparently
unconscious.

When villains fall to their deaths, you can hear their
screams gradually fade out, even if they only fall ten feet or so.

* When there's a police car standing, there are always hundreds of
voices in its radio.

* People's voices on telephones (and answering machines) always
sound just like their normal voice, except a little bit more nasal;
their voices are never distorted by things like holding the mouthpiece
too close to their face or breathing through their mouth.

* Character Acting: A Cockney accent is always as per Dick van
Dyke from Mary Poppins.

MARTIAL ART

* Arm and legs of karate-actors always make a funny "swish" sound
when they kick, hit or jump; they also tend to scream in a funny way
prior to any fighting-action.


MICROPHONES

* Anytime a person speaks into a microphone, their first words
will cause the mic to feed back.

* The first spoken words must be either 'Testing, Testing' or 'One
Two, One Two'


MOTORCYCLES


* Motorcycle engines in movies can inexplicably change from 4-
stroke Otto cycle to 2-stroke cycle operation.

* Motorcycles usually change from Harley Davidson choppers when
engaged in highway operations to Yamaha Dirt bikes when operated off-
road (as in "Then Came Bronson").

* Police Harleys will morph into Triumph Bonnevilles when
operating in tight quarters (on the ship in "Magnum Force").


MOVING GRAPHIC

* Any moving graphic on a sports broadcast (esp. NBC) has to use
the same "fireball" sound effect.

MUSIC

* When the star travels to...
London, we see a shot of Big Ben and hear “Rule,
Britainia.”

Hong Kong: a Chinese junk and wooden xylophone music (or a
deep gong).

New York: a traffic jam on Broadway and frenetic xylophone
music.

Paris: the Eiffel Tower and accordion music.

* Radio
When listening to music on the radio in the car, the song
on the radio never changes during a single scene. The scene rarely
outlasts the song...if it does, one of the characters will turn the
radio off before the end of the song.

There are never any commercials on the radio.

It's always easy to find romantic make out music on the
radio right when you need it.

PEOPLE


* The DJ always turns the music down when actors talk in disco and
club-scenes

* Those tiny people far, far away in that long shot on the beach
should always sound like they're talking directly into your ear - no
matter how far away they are, even though they're whispering . . .

* People in a wide-open field or dense forest can make their voice
echo if they yell loud enough.

* When you get punched in the face, it sounds like you broke a
salami over the back of a chair

* All kisses need to sound sloppy and wet.

* Blood will always squish when oozing from a wound.

* Dreams are always drenched in a lot of reverb.

* People never answer the door until the doorbell or knocking has
sounded at least three times


SPACE

* It is now the modern era, and thus, sound has been installed in
space by the elimination of that nasty vacuum problem.

* Explosions in space make noise

* There's a deep humming in space, no doubt about it

* Sounds in space must have some element of a flanger involved

SPEED OF SOUND

* Applies to absolutely every movie: Some noisy event (crash,
shot, explosion) occurs at quite a distance from the camera.
Nevertheless, the sound is heard at the same instant. The speed of
sound - usually 300 meters per second - here always is the same as the
speed of light. (But not everyone - Titanic has a long shot as the
boat starts sinking where a signal flare is set off. The sound follows
a good 2 seconds behind)


SURROUND

* Almost any huge surround sound explosion. In fact, generally the
use of surround in any action or action-drama film. Everything is
everywhere, with a crystal-clear glistening 20Hz - 20KHz bandwidth.


WEAPONS & GUNS


* A fired gun never recoils.

* Guns (handguns, rifles, machineguns etc) have a really deep
"BOOOMMM!!" sound not a "CRACK!" Also, the there's old cliche about
the number of rounds the average magazine holds, the good guys almost
never run out of ammo, and they seem to be able to use a handgun
accurately to over a 100 meter range (accuracy of weapons over
distance is pretty much a factor of barrel length - handguns are for
CLOSE distances).

* All sub machine guns sound alike and have the same rate of fire
Machine guns and their rate of fire ... most users of these
weapons can manage to sustain over 10 second continuous rate of fire
(in actuality, you are supposed to fire the things in short bursts --
after a long burst the barrel will heat up so much the weapon will
jam). Also I have never ever seen any protagonist change a MGs
*barrel* no matter how long he has used the MG. (the barrels overheat,
and also sustain incredible wear requiring these to be changed --
often in battle, the gunner's mate will carry spare barrels as well as
the inexhaustible ammo supply which weighs next-to-nothing). Esp. WW2
era weapons.

* Bullets always ricochet, and they must travel pretty slow
because the "rico" is 1/2 second later after it moves 50 feet
All bullets make a distinct riccoche sound and when flying past
you they make a zip noise when in fact they are moving faster than the
speed of sound and in real life would produce a whip lash or bang
sound

* Handguns: All handguns make a frightening clicking sound when
handled as though to suggest that the parts are loose. The more
advanced the gun (Men in Black) the louder, and more varied, the
clicking. In real life any gun making noises like that would probably
explode in your hand with the first discharge. Note: All energy type
weapons will power up with a loud hum.


MISC

* In the M&E-Mix you always have to hear footsteps (and cloth
rubbing) that where never heard on the original sound track. [M&E
(Music & Effects) is a special mix which is done to prepare for
foreign language (dubbed) versions of a film]

* Approaching Sherman tanks at a range of fifty yards, roaring at
a level that loosens teeth and sphincters alike, are never so loud as
to obscure that "Foleyed" woolen sweater the officer is moving as he
raises his binoculars.