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  #1   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default I promised some pictures (Scott, Mike, Roger...)


But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm

This is the make-shift control room and temporary studio we put together
in under ten days for the 2" machine recording project.


Thanks again for your help... as it turns out, the analogue torque board
had some modifications made to it that I didn't notice, voiding most of
the standard adjustments. Steve Sadler has sent me a loaner and will
be returning my board to 'stock' configuration.


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com


  #2   Report Post  
Neil Henderson
 
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"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:Km%ad.7639$Mh7.3915@trnddc04...

But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm



Wow. Amazing in that short of a time.

Tip 'o the hat to you.

Neil Henderson


  #3   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
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Neil Henderson wrote:

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote...


But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.


http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm


Wow. Amazing in that short of a time.


Tip 'o the hat to you.


If ever you doubted he's a competent and crazy mofo, let doubt be
excoriated. g

--
ha
  #4   Report Post  
Max Arwood
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for the great story and photos!
Max Arwood

"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Neil Henderson wrote:

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote...


But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.


http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm


Wow. Amazing in that short of a time.


Tip 'o the hat to you.


If ever you doubted he's a competent and crazy mofo, let doubt be
excoriated. g

--
ha



  #5   Report Post  
Chris!
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. . If ever you doubted
he's a competent and crazy mofo, let doubt be
excoriated. g


An amazing story... and even more amazing is that Hank used the word
"excoriated". What does it say about my education that I know the meaning of
"crazy mofo" but "excoriated" was a new one on me.


--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary




  #6   Report Post  
Don Cooper
 
Posts: n/a
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"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote:

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm



Thanks.

An excellent read!
  #7   Report Post  
Kurt Albershardt
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm

This is the make-shift control room and temporary studio we put together
in under ten days for the 2" machine recording project.


Wow.



  #8   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"hank alrich" wrote in message .. .
Neil Henderson wrote:

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote...


But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.


http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm


Wow. Amazing in that short of a time.


Tip 'o the hat to you.


If ever you doubted he's a competent and crazy mofo, let doubt be
excoriated. g

--
ha



Well, yes... I feel a little 'chafed' after the experience. ;-)

You're constantly sendin' me to the dictionary, Hank.


  #9   Report Post  
Roger W. Norman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Good job, David. I knew you had it in you. Nicely done set of pictures and
layout, too. You must have had a little more time on your hands than you
thought! g

Your first picture sadly resembles the shambles my studio is in right now
due to this 9 month long remodel. I have to step over tools, area carpets
that are stretched over boards for the drying process after the flood, amps,
guitars out of place, drums that are still in the cases since the middle of
February. So your picture looks way too familiar to me! I'm hoping to hit
the "finished" picture by the end of the year, but I don't think it's ever
been as nice as what you accomplished in such a short period of time. Shame
to think that all that work will be deconstructed when it appears to me that
some solid design work went into the space.

So did the tensioning situation get settled?

--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio


"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:Km%ad.7639$Mh7.3915@trnddc04...

But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm

This is the make-shift control room and temporary studio we put together
in under ten days for the 2" machine recording project.


Thanks again for your help... as it turns out, the analogue torque board
had some modifications made to it that I didn't notice, voiding most of
the standard adjustments. Steve Sadler has sent me a loaner and will
be returning my board to 'stock' configuration.


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com




  #10   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

x-no archive: yes

David Morgan wrote:

You're constantly sendin' me to the dictionary, Hank.


And a third of the time it turns out to be a real word!

--
ha


  #11   Report Post  
EggHd
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Great story and photos!

of course next time they will expect you to shave a day off the set up. LOL!


---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"
  #12   Report Post  
Les Cargill
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm

This is the make-shift control room and temporary studio we put together
in under ten days for the 2" machine recording project.


Thanks again for your help... as it turns out, the analogue torque board
had some modifications made to it that I didn't notice, voiding most of
the standard adjustments. Steve Sadler has sent me a loaner and will
be returning my board to 'stock' configuration.



David, do you realize the vanishing number of people who woulda
caught that??? Please be careful out there.

hat off

--
Les Cargill
  #13   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Les Cargill" wrote in message ...
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm

This is the make-shift control room and temporary studio we put together
in under ten days for the 2" machine recording project.


Thanks again for your help... as it turns out, the analogue torque board
had some modifications made to it that I didn't notice, voiding most of
the standard adjustments. Steve Sadler has sent me a loaner and will
be returning my board to 'stock' configuration.



David, do you realize the vanishing number of people who woulda
caught that??? Please be careful out there.

hat off

--
Les Cargill



It was fun.

Actually, the modification appears to have bypassed a part of the
circuit which separates control to the two motors. I don't claim to
understand it, and it only appears to have affected torque andjustments
and possibly altered the slew rate or something. It really didn't change
much more, and I probably shouldn't have exaggerated that... I still have
the problem. I think I'm down to just chasing wire.

If the old Mitsu hadn't just been 16 tracks, it might have gotten the gig...
and I can assure you it would still be running. g

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com



  #14   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"EggHd" wrote in message ...
Great story and photos!

of course next time they will expect you to shave a day off the set up. LOL!



Don't laugh... effectively, since the producer arrived on Sunday, I was a full
day late. :-\







  #15   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message ...
Good job, David. I knew you had it in you. Nicely done set of pictures and
layout, too. You must have had a little more time on your hands than you
thought! g


Yeah, yeah... and I heard about it from the feminie side of the household
when I spent my first afternoon off doing that. Actually, I wanted to include
some better before & after shots and a couple of floor plans, but I'd have
given up gettin' any lovin' at all if I had taken any extra time.

Your first picture sadly resembles the shambles my studio is in right now
due to this 9 month long remodel. I have to step over tools, area carpets
that are stretched over boards for the drying process after the flood, amps,
guitars out of place, drums that are still in the cases since the middle of
February. So your picture looks way too familiar to me! I'm hoping to hit
the "finished" picture by the end of the year, but I don't think it's ever
been as nice as what you accomplished in such a short period of time.


It's just four square walls & a drop ceiling... a recipe for disaster, but I did
do my best to overcome that.

Shame
to think that all that work will be deconstructed when it appears to me that
some solid design work went into the space.


I'd have to show better pictures and a floor plan to make it clear just how
awkward the place still is. Only three single-ply wall segments even go
to the roof line. Nah... if he get's Berger to do the control room, then nothing
can stay the way it is. With a little more time and focus though, the place
could be "usable" without a lot more investment.

So did the tensioning situation get settled?


No. I've been through everything physical - all the connectors from the
power supply to the motors - and a replacement torque board yielded
the same problem. The supply side is advancing too fast causing tape
to ride up the roller and dump to stop.... but it's highly intermittent yet
extremely frequent.

I've lost three days of expected work in troubleshooting, not without
help, though, and that means I'm behind and possibly frustrating the
guys doing the overdubs. We have a window of time that's still open,
but it looks like any profit at all from the session for the studio owner
will be fed to the tape machine... I've done all I can, it's time to pay.


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com



--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio


"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:Km%ad.7639$Mh7.3915@trnddc04...

But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm

This is the make-shift control room and temporary studio we put together
in under ten days for the 2" machine recording project.


Thanks again for your help... as it turns out, the analogue torque board
had some modifications made to it that I didn't notice, voiding most of
the standard adjustments. Steve Sadler has sent me a loaner and will
be returning my board to 'stock' configuration.


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com








  #16   Report Post  
Roger W. Norman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Perhaps it's time to start talking about a RADAR w/Nyquist converters?
Certainly numerous people that have been working with 24 track analog have
opted for a RADAR as a backup/alternative unit and been pleased.

And you will be dumping tracks to PT, right? So why wouldn't the Mitsu work
unless there's some godawful reason to need 24 concurrent tracks, of which
that space certainly belies the possibility.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:KwKbd.215$uk2.202@trnddc05...

"Les Cargill" wrote in message

...
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm

This is the make-shift control room and temporary studio we put

together
in under ten days for the 2" machine recording project.


Thanks again for your help... as it turns out, the analogue torque

board
had some modifications made to it that I didn't notice, voiding most

of
the standard adjustments. Steve Sadler has sent me a loaner and will
be returning my board to 'stock' configuration.



David, do you realize the vanishing number of people who woulda
caught that??? Please be careful out there.

hat off

--
Les Cargill



It was fun.

Actually, the modification appears to have bypassed a part of the
circuit which separates control to the two motors. I don't claim to
understand it, and it only appears to have affected torque andjustments
and possibly altered the slew rate or something. It really didn't change
much more, and I probably shouldn't have exaggerated that... I still have
the problem. I think I'm down to just chasing wire.

If the old Mitsu hadn't just been 16 tracks, it might have gotten the

gig...
and I can assure you it would still be running. g

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com





  #17   Report Post  
David Morgan \(MAMS\)
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message ...
Perhaps it's time to start talking about a RADAR w/Nyquist converters?
Certainly numerous people that have been working with 24 track analog have
opted for a RADAR as a backup/alternative unit and been pleased.


We haven't thought about RADAR, even for the long term... but I'll put it on
the dentist's 'wish-list'.

Right now, there's a Paris there with 24 inputs, but the guy that brought it
to the studio can't get it configured and I've already fabricated EDACs to
feed it from the 24-track. The again, right now the 2" machine couldn't
play the tracks to back it up.

And you will be dumping tracks to PT, right? So why wouldn't the Mitsu work
unless there's some godawful reason to need 24 concurrent tracks, of which
that space certainly belies the possibility.


We're way over 16. There were 9 on the drums, and there has to be room
for some alternate takes on vocals and guitar. :-(

DM



Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:KwKbd.215$uk2.202@trnddc05...

"Les Cargill" wrote in message

...
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

But don't even try unless you have a high-speed connection or five
minutes to wait for the photos to load.

http://www.m-a-m-s.com/challenges.htm

This is the make-shift control room and temporary studio we put

together
in under ten days for the 2" machine recording project.


Thanks again for your help... as it turns out, the analogue torque

board
had some modifications made to it that I didn't notice, voiding most

of
the standard adjustments. Steve Sadler has sent me a loaner and will
be returning my board to 'stock' configuration.



David, do you realize the vanishing number of people who woulda
caught that??? Please be careful out there.

hat off

--
Les Cargill



It was fun.

Actually, the modification appears to have bypassed a part of the
circuit which separates control to the two motors. I don't claim to
understand it, and it only appears to have affected torque andjustments
and possibly altered the slew rate or something. It really didn't change
much more, and I probably shouldn't have exaggerated that... I still have
the problem. I think I'm down to just chasing wire.

If the old Mitsu hadn't just been 16 tracks, it might have gotten the

gig...
and I can assure you it would still be running. g

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com







  #18   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David Morgan \(MAMS\) wrote:
"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message ...
Perhaps it's time to start talking about a RADAR w/Nyquist converters?
Certainly numerous people that have been working with 24 track analog have
opted for a RADAR as a backup/alternative unit and been pleased.


We haven't thought about RADAR, even for the long term... but I'll put it on
the dentist's 'wish-list'.


RADAR is really sort of the best of both worlds. You get a user interface
that is a lot like a tape machine, and the general tape machine feel. But
you also get the ability to do some sophisticated editing with the ability
to undo it as well.

The converters are pretty good, and you get the wonderful digital bottom end
which seems to be the big reason to go digital, more than anything else. Nice
and solid, no tape bump, no ragged crap below the bump, just accurate and solid
all the way down. The top end isn't perfect but it's pretty good.

I can see some reasons to pick analogue machines or other digital machines
over the RADAR, but the RADAR is a good compromise that gives you much of
what I like about each one.

Right now, there's a Paris there with 24 inputs, but the guy that brought it
to the studio can't get it configured and I've already fabricated EDACs to
feed it from the 24-track. The again, right now the 2" machine couldn't
play the tracks to back it up.


That's basically what RADAR buys you. It's a recording appliance. You don't
spend so much time fighting with the hardware.

And you will be dumping tracks to PT, right? So why wouldn't the Mitsu work
unless there's some godawful reason to need 24 concurrent tracks, of which
that space certainly belies the possibility.


We're way over 16. There were 9 on the drums, and there has to be room
for some alternate takes on vocals and guitar. :-(


Well, it could be worse.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #19   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scott Dorsey wrote:

RADAR is really sort of the best of both worlds. You get a user interface
that is a lot like a tape machine, and the general tape machine feel. But
you also get the ability to do some sophisticated editing with the ability
to undo it as well.


The converters are pretty good, and you get the wonderful digital bottom
end which seems to be the big reason to go digital, more than anything
else. Nice and solid, no tape bump, no ragged crap below the bump, just
accurate and solid all the way down. The top end isn't perfect but it's
pretty good.


Please describe your take on the lack of top perfection (audiopile
terminology accepted here), and, have you any opinion on how the Alesis
HD24XR compares out of the box against the Radar convertors?

Lastly, how much physical noise does a Radar make? It has fans and hard
drives in it.

--
ha
  #20   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

hank alrich wrote:

Please describe your take on the lack of top perfection (audiopile
terminology accepted here), and, have you any opinion on how the Alesis
HD24XR compares out of the box against the Radar convertors?


I dunno. When I compare what goes into the Radar, the top end comes out
a litte different than what went in. It's not harsher. If anything it
is a little softer. It's not grainy, though.

I have never used the Alesis box. But, I will say that the one wonderful
thing about the digital world is that if you have a piece of gear that has
a user interface that you like, you can match it with a set of converters
that you like.

Lastly, how much physical noise does a Radar make? It has fans and hard
drives in it.


It's really noisy. You need a machine room for it. But the ATR-100 is noisy
too (and maybe I should consider replacing the fan on mine).
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


  #21   Report Post  
EggHd
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Perhaps it's time to start talking about a RADAR w/Nyquist converters?

I have used Radar with the "stock" converters and have been very happy. Don't
write them off if cost is an issue.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"
  #22   Report Post  
Roger W. Norman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Now I haven't worked with a lot of RADAR units, but I don't think they are
noisier than a 24 track analog recorder in the control room, particularly
during rewinds! g And you don't have to worry about things flying around
the room.

But overall, a decently set up Paris system should suffice for transfers if
the danged 24 track was working correctly. On a decent machine with enough
inputs a Paris system should still do a great job. It all depends on who is
qualified to work what, and I've actually never heard of a RADAR system not
working, which is surprising because you know there have had to be systems
that didn't work. For the dollars invested in hiring in a 24 track and
maintaining over any length of a gruelling recording set of sessions, it
seems to me that I'd opt in for the RADAR in a heartbeat. Or even a couple.

Nine mics on the drums. Whatsamatter you? I know, not your call. Does
anyone remember that Bonham didn't use 9 mics? What the **** happened to
getting the sound of the drums, not getting sounds of individual drums?
Yeah, I want each individual string on my guitar mic'd so that I can overdub
a string that's not right.

Geez, guess I'm getting cranky now that I've hit 53.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:

Please describe your take on the lack of top perfection (audiopile
terminology accepted here), and, have you any opinion on how the Alesis
HD24XR compares out of the box against the Radar convertors?


I dunno. When I compare what goes into the Radar, the top end comes out
a litte different than what went in. It's not harsher. If anything it
is a little softer. It's not grainy, though.

I have never used the Alesis box. But, I will say that the one wonderful
thing about the digital world is that if you have a piece of gear that has
a user interface that you like, you can match it with a set of converters
that you like.

Lastly, how much physical noise does a Radar make? It has fans and hard
drives in it.


It's really noisy. You need a machine room for it. But the ATR-100 is

noisy
too (and maybe I should consider replacing the fan on mine).
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."



  #23   Report Post  
Mike Caffrey
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message ...
Now I haven't worked with a lot of RADAR units, but I don't think they are
noisier than a 24 track analog recorder in the control room, particularly
during rewinds! g And you don't have to worry about things flying around
the room.


Definitely louded the a 2 inch machine, but not louder than one during
rewinds.


But overall, a decently set up Paris system should suffice for transfers if
the danged 24 track was working correctly. On a decent machine with enough
inputs a Paris system should still do a great job. It all depends on who is
qualified to work what, and I've actually never heard of a RADAR system not
working, which is surprising because you know there have had to be systems
that didn't work. For the dollars invested in hiring in a 24 track and
maintaining over any length of a gruelling recording set of sessions, it
seems to me that I'd opt in for the RADAR in a heartbeat. Or even a couple.


When my RADAR 24 blew a cp in the power supply I was down for a day or
two. I've yet to lose more than 15 minutes from my 2 inch machine.
Power down, reseat the cards and that's about it.
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