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Explorer2
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

Dear all,

I'm considering audio engineering / production as a potential career. I'm
lost, I don't know where to turn for some real industry insight. Could
someone please give me some pointers about a professional career in audio
and what it is really like? I am interested in knowing the following:

1) Typical day-day functions, duties. - some examples would be appreciated.

2) Best route in to the field - education, how to get work, etc..

3) Pros - Cons?

4) Salary?

Thanks,
Explorer


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Walt
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

Explorer2 wrote:

I'm considering audio engineering / production as a potential career. I'm
lost, I don't know where to turn for some real industry insight. Could
someone please give me some pointers about a professional career in audio
and what it is really like? I am interested in knowing the following:

1) Typical day-day functions, duties. - some examples would be appreciated.


Moving lorge heavy objects, crawling around on your belly in dirty
places, getting abuse from bored prissy self-absorbed "talent", catching
3 hours of sleep between 20-hour workdays.

2) Best route in to the field - education, how to get work, etc..


Be willing to work for nothing for a while, doing the unpleasant tasks
nobody else wants to do.

3) Pros - Cons?


Both. Some people in the industry deserve to be called "pros". Many
others are in jail.


4) Salary?


BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

The best piece of advice I ever got went something like this: if you
can be happy doing something else, do that instead. The only reason to
be in this field is if you are so drawn to it that you just won't be
happy doing anything else.

//Walt
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Ken Winokur
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

I suspect you're going to get a lot of negative responses to these
questions. There's no way around it, the recording business is a bad
one.

It's always been hard to make a buck in recording, and now it's getting
even worse. The home studios have eaten up lots of the low level
studio's bread and butter - leaving excellent studios without enough
work. The payback on the hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment
is very slow and not at all guaranteed. There's far too many studios
competing for a shrinking dollar. Millionaire rich kids open expensive
studios and then underbid experienced studios. The record business is
in the toilet and less high budget projects are being funded.

The trickle down theory applies here - what's bad at the top trickles
down to the lower level employees.

Still, somebody's working. The best engineers (or at least the most
respected) have all the work they need.

If you think you are really talented, and enjoy the work, why not try
(but it's best to develop an alternative career at the same time, just
in case).

As was discussed here previously, it's probably fastest and most sure
to learn in a good school. This will hopefully get you some good
theoretical knowledge of the field, access to good equipment, some
practical experience through work/study programs, and some contacts for
when you graduate. But, even after graduating, it will probably take
years to work up to a paying job (if you find one at all).

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Ken Winokur
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

I suspect you're going to get a lot of negative responses to these
questions. There's no way around it, the recording business is a bad
one.

It's always been hard to make a buck in recording, and now it's getting
even worse. The home studios have eaten up lots of the low level
studio's bread and butter - leaving excellent studios without enough
work. The payback on the hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment
is very slow and not at all guaranteed. There's far too many studios
competing for a shrinking dollar. Millionaire rich kids open expensive
studios and then underbid experienced studios. The record business is
in the toilet and less high budget projects are being funded.

The trickle down theory applies here - what's bad at the top trickles
down to the lower level employees.

Still, somebody's working. The best engineers (or at least the most
respected) have all the work they need.

If you think you are really talented, and enjoy the work, why not try
(but it's best to develop an alternative career at the same time, just
in case).

As was discussed here previously, it's probably fastest and most sure
to learn in a good school. This will hopefully get you some good
theoretical knowledge of the field, access to good equipment, some
practical experience through work/study programs, and some contacts for
when you graduate. But, even after graduating, it will probably take
years to work up to a paying job (if you find one at all).

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Ken Winokur
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

Here's a little more info. I pay an engineer about $25 or 30 to work
in my studio, in Boston. That buys a very good professional with years
of experience (and is probably the near high end here in Boston).
While that figure sounds good, consider that it's nearly impossible for
a freelance engineer to find enough work to keep busy, and at that
rate, you'll need to be working full time to pay the rent. Typically,
freelancers in other fields get paid considerable more.

You might consider a good music school like Berkeley. The youngsters I
have known who went through their program learned a lot (before they
dropped out, grumbling about how much they hate the school).

On the other hand, you could just research the studios in your town,
and go and offer them your services as an "unpaid intern". Look in
local music mags, the internet, and the yellow pages for names of the
studios. This would be good background to going to school, or just to
see if the life suites you.

I personally couldn't be a full time engineer. It's really demanding.
It takes enormous concentration (a quality that I don't really have),
and unbelievable patience (another that I'm lacking). It's not really
fun. I hate the sedentary quality, the feeling of being locked up
inside a windowless room, and having to work for other people whims. I
enjoy producing my own music and occasional projects for friends, but I
could never do this for a living.

Hope that helps,

Ken
alloyorchestra.com



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Ken Winokur
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

Doesn't look like anyone else is going to pick up on this... perhaps
I'll continue.

What the job entails:

Starting - you'll be doing what Walt says - gopher work. Errands,
schlepping, cleaning, putting away equipment.

Recording assistant - This next step would have you helping the
engineer. Setting up mics and running cables, operating the tape deck
(if they're using tape), and more gopher work. As you get to me more
experienced, you might spell the engineer at the board while he gets
something to eat or whatever. A trusted assistant might do a
preliminary mix, or some editing.

Recording engineer - actually in charge of production. Directs the
assistants, records, mixes, edits, deals with the musicians and
producer. Chief psychologist in charge of the luney bin. The engineer
should have lots of talents. He should have a good ear and can spot a
good performance, tuning problems, or timing mistakes. It's good to
have musical training so that you can communicate with the musicians
and make intelligent suggestions. If there is no producer on the
project, the engineer often has to help decide when a take is adequate
or needs to be redone. He might suggest changes or additional takes.
The engineer has to be alert and concentrating all the time (even while
havoc is being wrecked all around him). Musicians are expected to
screw up (that's just who we are). The engineer is expected to work
without errors.

Sound fun? If nothing else, you could get a simple recording setup
together and try it out for yourself. Invite a few musicians over and
try it out. Smaller studios (sometimes just home setups) seems to be
the way the industry is going anyway. Instead of spending $100,000 on
going to a good school, you might put that into equipment (a little at
a time) and actually have a potential for making money. At least that
way, you'll have something to sell when you give up, and decide that
it's more fun doing drugs and going to clubs to get your music fix.

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Ken Winokur
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

Doesn't look like anyone else is going to pick up on this... perhaps
I'll continue.

What the job entails:

Starting - you'll be doing what Walt says - gopher work. Errands,
schlepping, cleaning, putting away equipment.

Recording assistant - This next step would have you helping the
engineer. Setting up mics and running cables, operating the tape deck
(if they're using tape), and more gopher work. As you get to me more
experienced, you might spell the engineer at the board while he gets
something to eat or whatever. A trusted assistant might do a
preliminary mix, or some editing.

Recording engineer - actually in charge of production. Directs the
assistants, records, mixes, edits, deals with the musicians and
producer. Chief psychologist in charge of the luney bin. The engineer
should have lots of talents. He should have a good ear and can spot a
good performance, tuning problems, or timing mistakes. It's good to
have musical training so that you can communicate with the musicians
and make intelligent suggestions. If there is no producer on the
project, the engineer often has to help decide when a take is adequate
or needs to be redone. He might suggest changes or additional takes.
The engineer has to be alert and concentrating all the time (even while
havoc is being wrecked all around him). Musicians are expected to
screw up (that's just who we are). The engineer is expected to work
without errors.

Sound fun? If nothing else, you could get a simple recording setup
together and try it out for yourself. Invite a few musicians over and
try it out. Smaller studios (sometimes just home setups) seems to be
the way the industry is going anyway. Instead of spending $100,000 on
going to a good school, you might put that into equipment (a little at
a time) and actually have a potential for making money. At least that
way, you'll have something to sell when you give up, and decide that
it's more fun doing drugs and going to clubs to get your music fix.

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Posted to rec.audio.pro
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

I pay an engineer about $25 or 30 to work in my studio, in Boston.
You can't live on that in the Boston area (or anywhere's else except
maybe the mid-west).

Mike
http://www.pcDAW.net

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Scott Dorsey
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

wrote:
I pay an engineer about $25 or 30 to work in my studio, in Boston.


You can't live on that in the Boston area (or anywhere's else except
maybe the mid-west).


A couple years ago you could live on that rather comfortably here in
rural Virginia, but the town where I live has become a haven for
retirees and costs for everything are starting to go through the roof.

I'm assuming this is for a staff position, where the engineer is pretty
much guaranteed to have work every day, rather than contract work where
the rate has to be higher because the hours are so much lower and the
engineer spends a lot of his (unpaid) time drumming up business.

Even so, I see entry level studios around here CHARGING in the $20/hr.
range. God only knows what they pay their staff. I couldn't even
pay my maintenance costs for that.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Kayte
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

I'd like to suggest to the Explorer that there are many other roads in
audio production that don't involve music whatsoever. Some of these
are much more like desk jobs with regular hours, most are somewhere in
between that and the craziness described above. I work as an audio
digitization specialist for a department of a large university. We get
reel-to-reel tapes and cassettes, I digitize them, edit them, optimize
them (which roughly means mastering but not nearly as sophisticated),
and prepare them for delivery, whether they're going to the web or a cd
plant.
I spend most of my time digitizing and editing and optimizing, but I
also do research (here and elsewhere on the web) to keep our system up
to date and up to the standards of other similar organizations.
I'd recommend taking at least a few audio production classes at a
community college if they're offered. Or, just get as many books on
the subject as you can and read, practice, listen. Also check the
yellow pages for "audio/visual conversion" or digitization or backup
services, and call them to ask if you can come in to look at their
facilities. If you're nice and show your interest they probably will
be happy to.



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Nappy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.


"Explorer2" wrote in message
...
Dear all,

I'm considering audio engineering / production as a potential career. I'm
lost, I don't know where to turn for some real industry insight. Could
someone please give me some pointers about a professional career in audio
and what it is really like? I am interested in knowing the following:

1) Typical day-day functions, duties. - some examples would be

appreciated.

Waiting for work.



2) Best route in to the field - education, how to get work, etc..


Start doing it and listen to other pros.


3) Pros - Cons?


There is very little paying work in this field anymore.




4) Salary?



nonexistent.


Thanks,
Explorer



You're so welcome.. but you really ought to be doing your own homework.








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hank alrich
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

Ken Winokur wrote:

Doesn't look like anyone else is going to pick up on this... perhaps
I'll continue.


Not to diminish your worthy contribution, it's also fair to point out
that this is not the first such discussion here and plenty of folks
might as soon let someone dig for some of the back stories as go through
it all again.

http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en

Fletcher, Harvey, and many others have told it like it is.

--
ha
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Bob Olhsson
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

Scott Dorsey wrote:
A couple years ago you could live on that rather comfortably here in
rural Virginia, but the town where I live has become a haven for
retirees and costs for everything are starting to go through the roof.


Of course an alternative analysis is that the value of the US dollar has
been dropping like a rock. Instead of using the term "inflation," they
now call it "increased productivity" and "unprecedented high property
values."

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
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Jay Kadis
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

In article ,
(hank alrich) wrote:

Ken Winokur wrote:

Doesn't look like anyone else is going to pick up on this... perhaps
I'll continue.


Not to diminish your worthy contribution, it's also fair to point out
that this is not the first such discussion here and plenty of folks
might as soon let someone dig for some of the back stories as go through
it all again.

http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en

Fletcher, Harvey, and many others have told it like it is.

--
ha


I'm afraid it's getting more and more similar to the future of US automobile
production as a career path. It's depressing and we don't like to think about
it.

The advise I'd give at this point is to maintain your flexibility along with
your enthusiasm.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.pro
 
Posts: n/a
Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

A couple years ago you could live on that rather comfortably here in
rural Virginia, but the town where I live has become a haven for
retirees and costs for everything are starting to go through the roof.

Yep. I believe I read that there are 8,000 baby boomers a day retiring
now. Where all we all going to live? Not in the cold north, not in
the expensive coasts (unless they're rich).

Mike
http://www.pcDAW.net



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Ben Bradley
 
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Default Career Question: Audio Engineering Production, etc.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:18:57 GMT, "Nappy" wrote:


"Explorer2" wrote in message
...
Dear all,

I'm considering audio engineering / production as a potential career. I'm
lost, I don't know where to turn for some real industry insight. Could
someone please give me some pointers about a professional career in audio
and what it is really like? I am interested in knowing the following:

1) Typical day-day functions, duties. - some examples would be

appreciated.

Waiting for work.


Cleaning the toilet. Be sure to read the "Hobo appearance at NAMM"
thread to get an idea of what you'll be cleaning up, and know that
99.99 percent of these people will NOT be names you've heard of
before, unless you frequent your local bar scene.

Hustling for work? I've read stuff here about going to clubs and
(presuming you can tolerate the sounds generated) giving the
band/singer-songwriter your business card. If you're a good salesman
and the 'talent' is particularly vulnerable, you could go the "I can
make you a STAR!" route.

4) Salary?



nonexistent.


What about applying at a janitorial service? I understand you'd be
doing essentially the same work as a recording studio intern (see
above), but you would have the bonus of getting paid for it.



Thanks,
Explorer



You're so welcome.. but you really ought to be doing your own homework.


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