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#1
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tube amp unsuitable for metal sound?
Hi!
We tried a Mesa Boogie triple recitifier yesterday. It sound much worser than a marshall valvestate! Sure the frequency spectrum it produces sounds more balanced compared to the valvestate with its mid hole and sharp peak at 3-4kHz (what is the fault of the valvestate and let us try to test other amps). Since we tested some Marshalls and some Engls in former sessions, I begin to wonder if a full tube amp is generally unsuitable to produce a hard and definded metal sound without the mud, esspecially when playing 16th notes. 16th with valvestate sounds clear. If you like I can put some mp3s an my homepage. Any ideas what to try else? 5051? But it's a full tube amp, too. Sansamp? It's funny this cheap transistoramp with tube effect stage beats all expensive tube amps... But unfortunately it's far from beeing perfect... And last but not least: guess which mic was the best choice... Thomas |
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#2
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Speaking as a guitar player, the Mesa rectifier amps have NEVER been a favorite
of mine. They have always sounded muddy to my ears. They are well-made amps, but I just don't like the way they sound. Have you tried a Marshall JCM2000 series DSL 100 or DSL 50? It's an all-tube amp that I think will easily outperform your Valvestate in terms of tone. (DSL stands for Dual Super Lead -- it's a two-channel amp.) I am a VERY happy owner of a DSL 50. It is an extremely versatile amp that can go from warm, Fender-like clean sounds (I have even heard a jazz archtop through it!) to ultra-hard metal crunch. The EQ and Gain controls are VERY sensitive and I am always able to dial in EXACTLY the tones I am looking for. Marshall really did their homework when designing the DSL amps. They are FANTASTIC tone machines. Geez, I sound like a commercial here! But it's true, they are very nice, NON-muddy amps that sound GREAT. |
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#3
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Speaking as a guitar player, the Mesa rectifier amps have NEVER been a favorite
of mine. They have always sounded muddy to my ears. They are well-made amps, but I just don't like the way they sound. Have you tried a Marshall JCM2000 series DSL 100 or DSL 50? It's an all-tube amp that I think will easily outperform your Valvestate in terms of tone. (DSL stands for Dual Super Lead -- it's a two-channel amp.) I am a VERY happy owner of a DSL 50. It is an extremely versatile amp that can go from warm, Fender-like clean sounds (I have even heard a jazz archtop through it!) to ultra-hard metal crunch. The EQ and Gain controls are VERY sensitive and I am always able to dial in EXACTLY the tones I am looking for. Marshall really did their homework when designing the DSL amps. They are FANTASTIC tone machines. Geez, I sound like a commercial here! But it's true, they are very nice, NON-muddy amps that sound GREAT. |
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#4
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#6
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#7
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#8
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Often, an amp with 6550 output tubes is favored for the "hard and defined
metal sound"...(my first try to mic would be with a SM77) ....Paul -- ************************************************** ******** "In the analog realm, it ain't "OVER" 'til it's over." "ThomasT" wrote in message om... Hi! We tried a Mesa Boogie triple recitifier yesterday. It sound much worser than a marshall valvestate! Sure the frequency spectrum it produces sounds more balanced compared to the valvestate with its mid hole and sharp peak at 3-4kHz (what is the fault of the valvestate and let us try to test other amps). Since we tested some Marshalls and some Engls in former sessions, I begin to wonder if a full tube amp is generally unsuitable to produce a hard and definded metal sound without the mud, esspecially when playing 16th notes. 16th with valvestate sounds clear. If you like I can put some mp3s an my homepage. Any ideas what to try else? 5051? But it's a full tube amp, too. Sansamp? It's funny this cheap transistoramp with tube effect stage beats all expensive tube amps... But unfortunately it's far from beeing perfect... And last but not least: guess which mic was the best choice... Thomas |
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#9
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Often, an amp with 6550 output tubes is favored for the "hard and defined
metal sound"...(my first try to mic would be with a SM77) ....Paul -- ************************************************** ******** "In the analog realm, it ain't "OVER" 'til it's over." "ThomasT" wrote in message om... Hi! We tried a Mesa Boogie triple recitifier yesterday. It sound much worser than a marshall valvestate! Sure the frequency spectrum it produces sounds more balanced compared to the valvestate with its mid hole and sharp peak at 3-4kHz (what is the fault of the valvestate and let us try to test other amps). Since we tested some Marshalls and some Engls in former sessions, I begin to wonder if a full tube amp is generally unsuitable to produce a hard and definded metal sound without the mud, esspecially when playing 16th notes. 16th with valvestate sounds clear. If you like I can put some mp3s an my homepage. Any ideas what to try else? 5051? But it's a full tube amp, too. Sansamp? It's funny this cheap transistoramp with tube effect stage beats all expensive tube amps... But unfortunately it's far from beeing perfect... And last but not least: guess which mic was the best choice... Thomas |
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#10
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I am a VERY happy owner of a DSL 50. It is an extremely versatile amp that
can go from warm, Fender-like clean sounds (I have even heard a jazz archtop through it!) to ultra-hard metal crunch. The EQ and Gain controls are VERY sensitive and I am always able to dial in EXACTLY the tones I am looking for. When looking for clean, yet fullbodied, non-twangy jazz-esque tones some years ago, I was surprised to discover the Marshall JCMs being my favorite. The 4 band tone controls do exactly what's needed. Scott Fraser |
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#11
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I am a VERY happy owner of a DSL 50. It is an extremely versatile amp that
can go from warm, Fender-like clean sounds (I have even heard a jazz archtop through it!) to ultra-hard metal crunch. The EQ and Gain controls are VERY sensitive and I am always able to dial in EXACTLY the tones I am looking for. When looking for clean, yet fullbodied, non-twangy jazz-esque tones some years ago, I was surprised to discover the Marshall JCMs being my favorite. The 4 band tone controls do exactly what's needed. Scott Fraser |
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#12
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"ThomasT" wrote in message
. com... Hi! We tried a Mesa Boogie triple recitifier yesterday. It sound much worser than a marshall valvestate! Sure, Mesa's are loud but I never liked there sound, no matter how much I tweaked the EQ. Sure the frequency spectrum it produces sounds more balanced compared to the valvestate with its mid hole and sharp peak at 3-4kHz (what is the fault of the valvestate and let us try to test other amps). They sound like ****? That's my best guess about what went wrong with the Marshall Valvestate amps. They sound like there's some kind funky "F'ed-up" circuitry in there that is (like the Mesa's) impossible to EQ. Since we tested some Marshalls and some Engls in former sessions, I begin to wonder if a full tube amp is generally unsuitable to produce a hard and definded metal sound without the mud, esspecially when playing 16th notes. 16th with valvestate sounds clear. If you like I can put some mp3s an my homepage. Any ideas what to try else? 5051? But it's a full tube amp, too. Sansamp? Maybe a JMC 900 lead, or even a Hi-Watt (I've never used a Hi-Watt but they are good amp's from what I hear from others) I've used a few Marshall all transistor combo's with closed backs that sounded quite good. The only good sounding Peavey amp I ever heard was a VST, it's a half tube, half transistor amp with a power tube or two in it to take away some of the harsh Peavey sound. It's funny this cheap transistoramp with tube effect stage beats all expensive tube amps... But unfortunately it's far from beeing perfect... And last but not least: guess which mic was the best choice... SM57 or a 421, but you have to use a good processor for distortion and or crunch. There are lot's of difrent kinds of metal sound's, is it like old school metal (Led Zeppelin etc.) or 80's stuff? Or is it 90's grunge/alternative sound? Mabye a progressive sound? |
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#13
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"ThomasT" wrote in message
. com... Hi! We tried a Mesa Boogie triple recitifier yesterday. It sound much worser than a marshall valvestate! Sure, Mesa's are loud but I never liked there sound, no matter how much I tweaked the EQ. Sure the frequency spectrum it produces sounds more balanced compared to the valvestate with its mid hole and sharp peak at 3-4kHz (what is the fault of the valvestate and let us try to test other amps). They sound like ****? That's my best guess about what went wrong with the Marshall Valvestate amps. They sound like there's some kind funky "F'ed-up" circuitry in there that is (like the Mesa's) impossible to EQ. Since we tested some Marshalls and some Engls in former sessions, I begin to wonder if a full tube amp is generally unsuitable to produce a hard and definded metal sound without the mud, esspecially when playing 16th notes. 16th with valvestate sounds clear. If you like I can put some mp3s an my homepage. Any ideas what to try else? 5051? But it's a full tube amp, too. Sansamp? Maybe a JMC 900 lead, or even a Hi-Watt (I've never used a Hi-Watt but they are good amp's from what I hear from others) I've used a few Marshall all transistor combo's with closed backs that sounded quite good. The only good sounding Peavey amp I ever heard was a VST, it's a half tube, half transistor amp with a power tube or two in it to take away some of the harsh Peavey sound. It's funny this cheap transistoramp with tube effect stage beats all expensive tube amps... But unfortunately it's far from beeing perfect... And last but not least: guess which mic was the best choice... SM57 or a 421, but you have to use a good processor for distortion and or crunch. There are lot's of difrent kinds of metal sound's, is it like old school metal (Led Zeppelin etc.) or 80's stuff? Or is it 90's grunge/alternative sound? Mabye a progressive sound? |
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#15
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(ThomasT) wrote in message . com...
Hi! We tried a Mesa Boogie triple recitifier yesterday. It sound much worser than a marshall valvestate! Sure the frequency spectrum it produces sounds more balanced compared to the valvestate with its mid hole and sharp peak at 3-4kHz (what is the fault of the valvestate and let us try to test other amps). Since we tested some Marshalls and some Engls in former sessions, I begin to wonder if a full tube amp is generally unsuitable to produce a hard and definded metal sound without the mud, esspecially when playing 16th notes. 16th with valvestate sounds clear. If you like I can put some mp3s an my homepage. Any ideas what to try else? 5051? But it's a full tube amp, too. Sansamp? It's funny this cheap transistoramp with tube effect stage beats all expensive tube amps... But unfortunately it's far from beeing perfect... And last but not least: guess which mic was the best choice... Thomas This is something that I've been working on for 10-15 years. I have been using a number of amps during my career as a metal producer, and I've heard really great tube amps, and really bad ones as well. These are my faves - depending on what I am recording: Mesa Dual Rectifier - nice full tone, can be muddy if gained too much. (the new Triple sounds really bad! Avoid it) Marshall Valvestate - great, tight low-end, and fast response. 5150 - a bit hard to control, but nice full tone. The low-end tends to be too much at times. What I do is EQ the guitar first. I mean, always go through a graphic EQ before the amp, and filter away some of the nasty 250-350 Hz, where the mud is created. If you want more clarity to your fast notes and picking, give it a bit around 1kHz and 2.5 kHz. Try it out! It means a lot to the sound. And don't use Marshall cabs. They're just too poorly made. I use Mesa, and I've used ENGL as well. Good luck! Jacob Hansen Hansen Studios www.jacobhansen.com |
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#16
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Although tube amps tend to be better sounding than SS amps, I can say i've
heard amazing SS amps and terrible tubed amps. Just because its tubed doesnt mean its gonna be good, and IMO ive always found a good pedal driving a semi-driven tube amp to be the ebst metal sound Dave "ThomasT" wrote in message om... Hi! We tried a Mesa Boogie triple recitifier yesterday. It sound much worser than a marshall valvestate! Sure the frequency spectrum it produces sounds more balanced compared to the valvestate with its mid hole and sharp peak at 3-4kHz (what is the fault of the valvestate and let us try to test other amps). Since we tested some Marshalls and some Engls in former sessions, I begin to wonder if a full tube amp is generally unsuitable to produce a hard and definded metal sound without the mud, esspecially when playing 16th notes. 16th with valvestate sounds clear. If you like I can put some mp3s an my homepage. Any ideas what to try else? 5051? But it's a full tube amp, too. Sansamp? It's funny this cheap transistoramp with tube effect stage beats all expensive tube amps... But unfortunately it's far from beeing perfect... And last but not least: guess which mic was the best choice... Thomas |
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#17
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Although tube amps tend to be better sounding than SS amps, I can say i've
heard amazing SS amps and terrible tubed amps. Just because its tubed doesnt mean its gonna be good, and IMO ive always found a good pedal driving a semi-driven tube amp to be the ebst metal sound Dave "ThomasT" wrote in message om... Hi! We tried a Mesa Boogie triple recitifier yesterday. It sound much worser than a marshall valvestate! Sure the frequency spectrum it produces sounds more balanced compared to the valvestate with its mid hole and sharp peak at 3-4kHz (what is the fault of the valvestate and let us try to test other amps). Since we tested some Marshalls and some Engls in former sessions, I begin to wonder if a full tube amp is generally unsuitable to produce a hard and definded metal sound without the mud, esspecially when playing 16th notes. 16th with valvestate sounds clear. If you like I can put some mp3s an my homepage. Any ideas what to try else? 5051? But it's a full tube amp, too. Sansamp? It's funny this cheap transistoramp with tube effect stage beats all expensive tube amps... But unfortunately it's far from beeing perfect... And last but not least: guess which mic was the best choice... Thomas |
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#18
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