[flipper]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 00:34:36 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner
wrote:


As usual, Flipper cannot offer any advice on how to build a better
amp.

As usual, Patrick fabricates a strawman to beat up.

As usual, Flipper cannot offer any advice on how to build a better
amp.

Better than what, strawman?

I've concluded that discussions with Flipper lead nowhere, and even a
single line reply like mine is pointless.

They're pointless because they're B.S.


Besides the OP never asking how to "build a better amp" I told him how
anyway; UL. To which you then bitched about the use of "better" even
though you argued the exact same damn thing.

The OP seems puzzled by the little he is seeing so far with pentodes.

He's got a notebook full of measurements on the circuit in question
and, since anything divided by 0 is infinity, that's infinitely more
than you've provided.

There is a lot more to see and understand, and of course the OP is
only ONE of many many ppl who read the group each day hoping to better
understand things. Last time I looked, I saw it was a free world,

Maybe you should consult a few Iranians on that 'free world' nonsense
and there's, no doubt, more than a few Chinese who could offer some
enlightenment.

and
I can say what I like to say without kissing Flippers's ****ty arse.
Flipper is the agrieved bitch here, not me.

Btw, when are you going to stop 'always wondering' and do some
measurements like the OP did?

I've already done enough IMHO. I will NEVER act as a slave to solve
some other persons query if I see he could do it as well as I could if
he / she applied themselves to the task.

That's funny as hell since it's exactly what you 'demand' everyone
else do.


Folks should recall when I doubted Flipper's understanding of a Brooks
10C biasing circuit, and Flipper could never prove to me he had any
real idea how the Brook circuit worked, and then Flipper spent a huge
long time and thousands of words to zero effect to say that the Brook
Patent said it right, and that I had no grounds for doubt, and that
because a patent said something, it must be right. Flipper convinced
everyone he was a big fool, because he never could explain the Brook
circuit right, and ended up saying he was right because he said so.

The inventor explained how it worked, the patent explained how it
worked, and, after doing numerous simulations of both solid state and
tube implementations, I explained to you how it worked. That you are
unable to grasp it from the multiple sources and detailed information
provided is your problem, not mine.

But arguments based on "I'm right because I say so" is UTTER COMPLETE
BULL****,

Which is why nothing more than 'Patrick said' is "UTTER COMPLETE
BULL****."

and Flipper hates me for saying this. Flipper is a
psychopathic hater of many things,

And that comes from a person who has decided to type a book volume
explaining why he 'hates' me.

a insular man with tunnel vision
and zero sense of humour, and without enough courage to use his own
name here on the Internet.

Not at all. I often find you quite funny.

Flipper commanded me to build a Brooks circuit and measure it, but it
wasn't me who needed to know how it worked, it was the OP and Flipper,
and these ppl would not lift a finger to answer their own questions by
using their own resources, so, they don't get my respect, or anyobe
else's..

I already know how it works and all I said to you was that if you
couldn't grasp it from the provided materials then build one to find
out. And that is because *you* keep claiming that is 'the only way to
know' so if that is what it takes for *you* to figure it out then so
be it.

Have you figured out how a triode plate detector works yet?

So, the working of the Brook 10C remains unclear to all who may have
read the posts many months ago.

Oh really? Post your poll results on how just how 'dumb' you claim
"all who may have read the posts" are.

Nobody built a sample amp with a
Brooks bias adjuster. Just one 6SN7 involved, along with any generic
triode output stage needed. I don't care, and do not have to, and I do
have my own preferred methods for tube biasing spelt out at my website
in many amps I have supplied to ppl. I do not need to use the method
Brook patented so many years ago. The Brook biasing circuit has
shortcomings which make its employment a mere gimick.

Since you've demonstrated you do not understand how it works any
comments about "shortcomings" are unfounded.

It is my opinion
that Brook patented an idea about which they could then make claims
which might convince more PPL to buy more of them. Its a sample of the
american way of buiness, be seen to invent something, use lawyers to
word up a patent, stop other people using the idea, and actually keep
the real truth and working of the patent concealed by means of
preserving its confusing nature.

I have no problem understanding how it works from what is apparently
to you 'confusing' so, despite your hated of Brook, 'Americans',
business, patents, and lawyers, it would appear the problem is with
you.

Well, such marketting ploys just
don't work with Anti Bull**** Warriors like me. Nice try Mr Brooks,
but ya haven't got me thinking you had much to crow about, and Mr
Brooks, youse can still confuse ppl, all these years later, and Mr
Brooks, the ****s who are confused are so stubborn and lazy they won't
lift a finger to understand whatcha really meant all those years ago.

Let's see, the person who just claimed it was 'confusing' to him has
that to say about himself?

So, if I could hand out a prize for being a sneaky curmudgeon, I'd
award it to Mr Brooks, he really knew the art of bull****ting.

Flipper has not tendered a method of biasing which works any better.

Better than what? The circuit you don't understand?

Actually I have but since you never listen to anything it's not worth
going into again.

I've concluded that trying to discuss anything with Flipper is
unrewarding, inconclusive, oppressive, unpleasant, uninformative, and
if Flippper asked me the time of day, I'd not give it to him, and
direct him to find his own ****ing clock.

What a pal.

Meanwhile, there is more than has come to my mind about using G2 as a
controlling grid of some sort.

One can always opt for driving an OP to produce anode power tube by
using G2 as the signal input instead of G1. If G1 is biased at say 0V
dc, then Eg2 can lower than normal, maybe +150V instead of the usual
+300V, and by operating the G2 with +/- 150V pk, one achieves a
current change across a range of say +0.2Amps to 0.0amps. One will
find this form of triode working will have an Ra about the same as the
original tube used as a pentode.
Gain is very low, because the rules have to be followed, ie, µ = gm x
Ra, and if g2 gm = say 0.8ma/V, and Ra = 32k, ( for a 6550 with Ia =
55mA, Ea = 400V, ) then µ = 0.0008 x 32,000 = 25.6, and if RL = 4k,
gain A = µ x RL / ( RL + Ra ) = 25.6 x 4 / ( 32 + 4 ) = 2.8, very low,
and still not very linear. So how could NFB be used? One could use a
shunt NFB with two R between an input voltage and a speaker output
voltage and the junction of the 2 would have 1/2 the THD at the
speaker but no fundemental voltage, so you get distortion reduction
without gain reduction due to FB application. I've now said enough
about and leave others to investigate further.

But the exact properties of the screen should be well understood no
matter how one uses the screen to do anything, including having it
dangling at the end of an unbypassed supply resistance.
The properties can be observed at very low signal levels of a few Vac
without having to worry much about distortion, and to measure the
current flow into screen, a sensitive current meter is needed, or by
more simply reading a Vac across say 100 ohms in series wuth G2. 1Vac
across 100 ohms = 10mA ac, easy to read. If there was say some other
larger unbypassed series R of say 2k2 in series with g2, and there was
say 10Vac at G2, then Rin to G2 = 10V / 10mA = 1k0. If one applies a
small signal to g2, say 10Vac, from some external source, with at
least 100 ohms used as a current sensor, does Rg2 in stay constant? I
can think of many things to measure, but its important to measure
without loading the anode circuit, and allowing the screen voltage
changing circuit to work without beig changed. Hence test gear must
have input impedance much higher than circuit impedances.

Just my 3.1428 dracmas.

Patrick Turner.