[Trevor]

On 12/10/2015 6:43 PM, geoff wrote:
On 12/10/2015 7:32 p.m., Trevor wrote:
On 12/10/2015 4:27 PM, geoff wrote:
Loudness and loudness wars have nothing to do with clipping.

Rubbish. To gain maximum "loudness", moderate to severe clipping is
commonly used. Sure you could compress without clipping, but just look
at the waveform of nearly every pop CD released in the last decade if
you want to see clipping *IS* part of the loudness wars.


That's where generalisations are unhelpful when one is trying to be
concise.

No CD that I've purchased in the last decade exhibit clipping that I've
noticed,

Have you actually looked? Or perhaps you don't buy any pop music?


though a few are over-compressed to hell (not many
fortunately). And some I've been prompted to actually check ! Not much
'current' pop though I concede.

So not relevant to what I said in that case. While I don't buy much pop
myself, I have looked at very many of those disks to see why so many big
artists (who can afford the best people) sound so bad. :-(


Loudness is achieved by extreme compression and/or limiting. If digital
clipping occurs, that is a *technical error*

Yes, but I am NOT talking about theory, I am talking about what ANYONE
with a DAW can see for themselves!


- not inherently part of the hyper-compression process. And the same 'loudness' could be achieved
without any clipping.

No, it's already hyper-compressed before the gain is adjusted into
clipping for that little bit more.


That it may be a common error, or a deliberate misuse, is a different
story.

No, that it is deliberate *IS* what I was saying.


You can also clip to hell, and *not* have hyper-compression or loudness.
Lots of distortion though. But you know that.

Right, I certainly know what CAN be done, and unfortunately the common
practice these days is to do it BOTH ways to gain even more "loudness".
ie. first compress the hell out of it, *AND* let it clip as much as they
think they can get away with.

Trevor.