[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

Flip-off, I take that to mean that open reel tapes were
never available to you in the days of the LP?

As a rule, open reel tapes had far more dynamic range
than LPs. They were readily available consumer
products during most of the heyday of the stereo LP.
Therefore, the stereo LP was not the only choice when
it was king.


Arny. I cannot decide if you really are as poorly
informed as you are trying to make Flipper believe,
or if you are just arguing with him for the sake
of argument.

Open reel tapes were manufactured by high speed
duplication, for playback at 19cms (71/2 ips)

Yes.

They had no NR,

Dolby open reel tapes made an appearance.

To be more specific:

Dolby B in *very* limited quantity.

Not the same as *no NR*. So that makes you wrong again, Iain.

The information I
have states that there were no Dolby A or SR tapes
made available retail to the general public.

Neither of those formats is a consumer format. So naturally, they were not
used in consumer products.

and the FR was typically -3dB at 12kHz.

Not necessarily a problem.

But still nowhere near as good as the performance
of the LP, a format which you hold in such low
regard.

Wrong again, Iain. The hook this time is the -3 dB, or if you will +/- 1.5
dB. Consumer LP playback systems rarely if ever went there, even in the
midrange where a dB or two would matter quite a bit.

There is no logic in your reasoning Arny.

There is good logic you actually understand audio technology and know
that -3 dB at 12 KHz is minor misunderstanding compared to what LP playback
does to frequency response. There is if you actually ever saw a rack full of
open reel tapes with Dolby B.

The SNR was 50dB.

Simply false as a generality.

Spot on fact. I worked for two companies which
produced such tapes at 19 cm/s They were nothing
like as good as the LP, and never claimed to be, either.

Well you worked for them Iain. What should we expect?

In addition domestic tape recorders could rarely do
justice to the recording. There were of course
exceptions, the Revox being the best known.

Again Iain, you're talking trash. There were tons of Sony and Teac open reel
machines that would deliver 50 dB dynamic range. I personally sold dozens
of them! And Revox was a top-selling brand in the U.S.

This is greatly inferior to the LP.

Wrong. Also, it is a cherry-picked set of parameters
that ignore important dimensions of the listening
experience.

Right. These parameters are those that determine
the technical quality of the product,

Wrong again Iain. They are a subset of the parameters that determine the
perceived sound quality of the product. And you got most of them wrong such
as your false claim that there were no commercial open reel tapes that had
NR. Being 3 dB down the top frequency extremes is not nearly as audible as
the inherent trashing of the 500 Hz range in LPs.

and disprove
your absurd claim that commercial open-reel releases
where better than vinyl.

Only in your dreams, Iain. Sorry that open reel tape was such a POS in your
neck of the woods.

Perhaps you could not hear the difference?

Perhaps I didn't like the crappy low frequency response,
the inner groove and loud passage distortion, the tics
and pops, etc., etc., etc.

Perhaps you have never had access to a good vinyl
replay system.

Perhaps you are very full of yourself, Iain. If there was any doubt about my
access to good vinyl replay systems, consider the two days I spent
auditioning vinyl and tubes at HE2005.

You have made it clear what a penny
pincher you are, and so probably don't know what a
Garrard 401, SME 3012 and Shure V15/III
(or equivalent) can do.

I always thought that the Garrard 401 was beneath the interest of a Thorens
TD125 owner such as myself. I did own a SME arm and I did own Shure V15s II
through IV.

My current Rega-based system is not quite the same, but it gets the job
done.

Spend some time with an
EMT, SME 30/2 or Verdier turntable, and
Shure V15, EMT or Ortofon MC cartridge.

Been there, done that. All of the above, I think. And more.

And I also have a few new 180 gram vinyl pressings.

Trouble is, vinyl just can't hack it in 2008, except as a legacy recording
transcription object. However, this is only true if your hearing is still
functional enough to hear the obvious flaws in vinyl playback.