AudioBanter.com - View Single Post - Comments regarding: Cables, Hearing, Stuff!!

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 06:57:35 GMT, (Michael
Scarpitti) wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote in message
news:8sYcc.89466$w54.520320@attbi_s01...
On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:20:11 GMT, (Michael
Scarpitti) wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote in message
news:5aCcc.84136$K91.184034@attbi_s02...

This is false on its face. I have owned both speaker cables and
interconnects that sound different.

It should come as no surprise to anyone with real experience, that
you
are simply making a claim based on sighted listening, a technique
which is easily proven to be fatally flawed. I will bet you $10,000
that you can not tell cheap 'zipcord' from your favourite
'audiophile'
cable, when you don't *know* which one is connected.

Betting is not the issue. I can and do hear consistent differences
between various components.

No, you don't. And unlike you, I can *prove* what I'm saying.

You cannot 'prove' anything about what I can or cannot hear.

Sure I can - just step up to the plate and try a DBT.

'Consistent' is the key here. If I were
somehow 'creating' the phenomena, consistency would be a problem. The
consistency that I find among various products tested at large
intervals of time is fatal to your view.

No, it reinforces my view. In fact, the effect is *called*
reinforcement, and has been well-known for many decades. You are
simply choosing to ignore a *vast* amount of psy research, not to
mention numerous audio DBTs.

Impossible. I cannot, even in my wildest dreams, conjure up the
variety of sonic signatures that those 7 amplifiers had, let alone
recreate them several months later. Your 'vast amount of psychological
research' is unconvincing, in the extreme.

To you perhaps, but not to those of us who have actually *tried* DBTs.
What's your problem? If your claims are accurate, then you will 'ace'
the test and collect $10,000.

Ergo, the better the quality, the more closely
perfection is approached, and the subtler the differences.
Comparisons
between two brands of high-end cables are less likely to show
differences than comparisons between cheap cables and high-end
cables.

Comparisons between 50 cents a foot 'zipcord' and $1,000 a foot
Kimber
Black Pearl show no differences. This should not be a surprise to
any
reasonable person.

Ad hominem attacks will get you nowhere. 'Unreasonable people' may
simply be the ones who have the most acute hearing.

So far, no such person has surfaced. Many of course have, like
yourself, *claimed* to be able to hear differences, but not one
single
person has managed to prove this when they didn't *know* which cable
was connected.

You cannot prove a negative. You cannot prove I do not hear
differences. I can and do, when using equipment of sufficient
quality,
such as Stax electrostatic headphones.

I cannot prove a negative, but I can certainly prove that *you* cannot
hear the differences you claim among cables. Why are you so afraid to
try it?

Try it? I already did it, man!

No, you have *never* tried it when you didn't *know* what was
connected. That it the whole point.

Asked and answered. No cross-exmination
needed.

Asked and evaded every time, you mean.

Again, as we approach perfection, differences lessen between
products.

Any normal cable is already functionally perfect. The only
functionally imperfect cables are those ludicrously expensive ones
with little boxes attached.........................

I have heard differences between cables that are subtle but
consistent.

No, you haven't - and I can *prove* that, if you care to *try* it,
instead of simply repeating "I heard it, so it *must* be true".

I heard it, several times. You have NO grounds for contradicting me,
because you were not there. You have NO empirical data to support your
position. I do. I have a witness.

I have the grounds that *no* human can do this, because any
*measurable* differences lie far below the threshold of human hearing.
You have a witness only to the fact that sighted testing is useless in
this context.

I repeat, if you simply *try* a DBT, you will discover that you are
just plain wrong. I am putting up $10,000 that this is true.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering