Ruud Broens wrote:
"Kevin Aylward" wrote in
message ...
Ruud Broens wrote:
"Kevin Aylward" wrote in
message ...
Please explain to me how you actually *perceive* an emotion
*without*
consciousness? Its a tautology. Its that simple. Consciousness is
*how* feelings are recognised, i.e. how emotions are recognised.
Emotions are feelings, i.e. we are consciously aware of them.

Hm, well, this is leading a bit astray, but if you want to discuss
such matters, let's start with definitions: so what is perception,
Kevin ?

Most aspects of consciousness gets one into a self referral
situation. Perception is that which the conscious is aware of. What
is consciousness, that which can perceive things. Get the drift. I
have updated my site to address this in more detail.

http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/understanding.html


Consciousness is simple a result that occurs when systems get
sufficiently complicated. However, although it is *only* a function
of its mass-energy parts, it can not be derived from its parts. It
just is. It is an example of a Goedel system. True, but not
derivable.

Mmm, yesss... this is referred to as the excretionist theory.

Never heard of the word excretionist.

But you know all that, being the self-proclaimed expert,

What I will say here, is that most of what has been written in the past
is wrong. The fundamental reason for this is that they did not know
about computers, or truly understand that the brain is it. They is
nothing else. We are a machine. Sure, the brain operates a bit
different, but the main features are all that is required to get a
reasonable handle on the issues.

so tell us more about other theories of consciousness,
sure you are aware of them ?

Quite frankly, whenever I have trolled the web on this, its all crap.
Every, bit of it.
e.g.http://www.vub.ac.be/CLEA/liane/papers/api/api.html

"This paper proposes that an entity is conscious to the extent it
amplifies information, first by trapping and integrating it through
closure, and second by maintaining dynamics at the edge of chaos through
simultaneous processes of divergence and convergence. The origin of life
through autocatalytic closure, and the origin of an interconnected
worldview through conceptual closure, induced phase transitions in the
degree to which information, and thus consciousness, is locally
amplified. Divergence and convergence of cognitive information may
involve phenomena observed in light e.g. focusing, interference, and
resonance. By making information flow inward-biased, closure shields us
from external consciousness; thus the paucity of consciousness may be an
illusion."


Philosophers, by and large have no idea whatsoever. Consciousness is an
engineering problem.

No hard feelings, Kev',

None at all.


Kevin Aylward

http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

Understanding, is itself an emotion, i.e. a feeling.
Emotions or feelings can only be "understood" by
consciousness. "Understanding" consciousness can
therefore only be understood by consciousness itself,
therefore the "hard problem" of consciousness, is
intrinsically unsolvable.

Physics is proven incomplete, that is, no
understanding of the parts of a system can
explain all aspects of the whole of such system.