[Big Bad Bob]

On 05/13/11 02:06, Patrick Turner so wittily quipped:
On May 13, 1:01 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2011 00:35:40 -0700, Big Bad Bob

wrote:
On 05/08/11 20:48, flipper so wittily quipped:
I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.

Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same
or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon.

there may be a way to build the 'real performance' stuff AND compete
with the 'crap products',

Maybe or maybe not but that isn't the point. The point is Patrick
doesn't have a clue how to design and manufacture a product for the
mass market.

Patrick has a very clear idea about how to design and manufacture a
product for the mass market.

excellent!

But he doesn't want to, because he sees it is an excellent recipe
for him to lose all his possessions and become a bankrupt.

all things worth doing involve risk. corporations help minimize that.
You become a corporate officer and stock holder. If your stock suddenly
becomes worthless, that's all you lose (the value of the stock). You
might have to get another job afterwards, but that's pretty much the end
of it.

He'd have to get venture capital, and remove the quality like the
others do to compete

I earlier suggested that quality doesn't have to compromise, and gave
some examples on how to do it while still keeping costs down.

and investors won't invest unless you give them everything you have
in case you go broke

well, if they own stock they each get a portion of the liquidation
dollars (or 'sell the company' dollars) according to their shares, but
yeah that's kind of how it works when they buy up part of the company
and put money in to keep it running.

and the history of tube amp makers shows so many manufacturer
wannabes have gone broke.

it is the same for most businesses. venture capital is high risk. I
think 1 out of 3 actually "make it" to the point of profitability where
the VCs get a return on their investment. The return potential is so
high, though, that they continue to invest and make a profit.

Patrick is aware Chinese labour costs are 64c per hour or therabouts,
and he knows he'd have to get stuff made in China to compete.

my suggestions is 'certain assemblies' but not "the whole kit & kaboodle"

Patrick is sensible, and knows the risks, and is also 64, and he
doesn't plan to dive into terribly risky ventures producing niche
retro mass made with serious entreprenurial schemes using his own
money;

I'll accept that. (shooting others' attempts down, though, doesn't cut
it with me - I've seen and been around too many people who are like
that, always telling you why it CAN'T be done, etc.)

one must use only other people's money

unless you have your own capital available

and be 30 with nothing to lose, so the hard
work of making things happen can be done.

Age is irrelevant (think young, be young). The 'nothing to lose' part
is never applicable anyway (there is ALWAYS something to lose). No need
to ever 'retire' in my book, so I'll go on tossing about ideas about
starting businesses indefinitely, WAY past the age of 64, and maybe even
do it (again) once or twice. I figure I'll work until I'm dead (I know
this guy that's over 70, climbed Mt. Whitney a few years ago, and still
works as a senior EE, though he admitted it was a 'cushy' job) or until
I earn the classic 'F.U.' money (where you have SO much money you can
tell the world 'F.U.').

then with 'F.U.' money I could run a business at a loss just for fun.