[Jenn]

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On May 30, 10:40 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Jenn" wrote in

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"wayne" wrote in
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I hope I have not screwed up on purchasing
this Thorens TD170. It's rated =/- .12% DIN
but I can hear the pitch instability.

Audible flutter and wow is to be expected with
the vinyl format unless you take heroic steps.

If one can detect speed variations with a modern
TT, either the TT or the source is defective.

In fact all LPs are highly defective as compared
to the usual digital equivalents.

I know that that is true in a variety of ways.
Too bad that in the area of instrumental and vocal
timbre, LP sometimes gets it more right than does
digital.

That's technically imposible if the recordings are
properly made. Perhaps you can't detect CDs that
were improperly made.

What I can detect is that some LP get timbres more
right than any CD that I've heard.

That must be due to the added audible vibrato
distortion in the LP.

That's one thing that CDs don't have that LPs do
have.

I don't care what it's due to. I simply know that
it's true for my ears.

Proof again that Jenn can't hear wow and flutter when
her TT adds it to her LPs.

1. What makes you think that I can't hear wow and
flutter?

Your comments about perceptions of realistic
reproduction in the face of audible quantities of it.

I repeat: If you are getting audible quantities of wow
and flutter on good recordings, you're using an old, worn
out, or defective turntable.

Why do you make things up?

No need to make anything up when you indict yourself so
clearly, Jenn. Take the recent case where you confused a
rhetorical question with one that deserves an answer.
You obviously did not think it was a rhetorical
question, no doubt due to your lack of understanding of
a common abbreviation contained therein.
That you didn't see the correlation between hearing FM
distortion and good pitch discrimination shows that it
wasn't a rhetorical question.

There was no such absence of seeing. Have fun in your little personal
universe, Jenn.

At any rate, you're trying
to distract away from the question yet again.

No, the issue is settled.

Why do you make things up?

Asked and answered.

Who said that I can't hear W&F?

You did, Jenn.

2. Everything is a trade off. I guess that you don't
realize this.

Why do you make things up, Jenn?
You certainly haven't shown that you realize it.

There was no such absence of realizing. Have fun in your little personal
universe, Jenn.

Let's say that I hear W&F on the LPs that I listen to.

I see no evidence to support that claim. I see evidence that denies it.

Perhaps
this is less important to me than the negative things
that I hear on CDs.

There is nothing negative to hear. The music coming off a CD is sonically
indistinguishable from the music that went onto it.

Everything is a trade off.

In general yes, but in this case no. Sure the CD format involved
trade-offs,
but not any in terms of sonic accuracy. In contrast the LP format is chock
full of sonic trade-offs. Anybody who can't hear that has to be lost in
wishfulness and illusion.

To her, it is more real than real.
I have no idea what you mean by this.
Simple Jenn - you find a sonically perfect medium to be
less-realistic sounding than a medium with rather
obvious audible imperfections. You must not hear the
imperfections. Arguably, the most audible imperfection
of the LP format is the flutter and wow.
You obviously believe that CDs are a sonically perfect
medium.

It's a scientifically demonstrable fact.

Bully for you.

================================

Krueger answers Jenn:
"You obviously believe that CDs are a sonically
perfect medium".

"It's a scientifically demonstrable fact"

If he proclaimed it once he said it a hundred times
before-(Whatever "sonically transparent" means.)

He insists on reconfirming that the
experience of hearing to real life musicians playing
a real-life quartet or a symphony on real-life
music instruments is meaningless to him.

One wonders why anyone should talk oranges to an
apple man who knows only loudspeakers, amps. and
cd. players.

Leave him to it I say. Having nothing to ignorantly
spout about will be punishment enough.
Ludovic Mirabel

I know. I don't challenge him on his statements as much as I used to.