"EddieM" wrote in message
. com...
nyob123 wrote
EddieM wrote
nyob123 wrote
EddieM wrote
nyob123 wrote
EddieM wrote



Sniipp and disgreed to all the things you said.
Feel free to repaste though.



So, on the final ask, why don't you now answer the question. And
that
rather simple question is :


What if Michael Fremer carried out a Subjective Evaluation between
two
two components of equal class in a local audio saloon over there in
L.A.
and, towards the end, he came to conclude that there was a positive
subtle difference between the two, could this mean that he's
hearing
things ?

In the situation you describe, very likely, but again, the same would
be true for anyone doing that kind of listening.

YOU mean to tell me that if Mr. Sean Olive carried out a Subjective
Evaluation between two components of equal class over there at Harman
and that, towards the end, if he came to conclusion that there was a
positive subtle difference between the two then, according to you, he
is very likely hearing things ?


Now you are changing the situation. Earlier you said the situation
would be an audio "saloon", at least that was the case you set up for
Fremer.


Changing ? You wish.

It's not a wish it's what you said just a few paragraphs ago:


What if Michael Fremer carried out a Subjective Evaluation between
two components of equal class in a local audio saloon over there in
L.A. and, towards the end, he came to conclude that there was a
positive subtle difference between the two, could this mean that
he's hearing things ?


And as I have pointed out below that he is still in the "saloon."



I'm referring to the level of ability when listening to discern subtle
difference. That is, about the function and the ability to hear itself
when using the ears to hear differences -- which does not change for
any Subjective "listening" Evaluation.

The ability to hear doesn't change, that is ther is no difference in the
working of the ear, but there is a differnce in the mind. That's why using
only one's ears is what a DBT is all about, allowing the listener to focus
on sound alone.

It can be influenced by various biases, which is why removing them and
doing a blind comparison, level matched, is best.


I am talking about the "acuity" of their "ability to discern" subtle
differences and NOT about the influence of various biases. That is,
the ability to discern do not change for any Subjective "listening"
Evaluation.

It doesn't? Please point me to the research that confirms this notion. The
consenus is that hearing is influenced by what one sees and that people can
be routinely fooled into thinking they are listening to 2 different sources
when in fact they are only listening to one.

So if Michael Fremer carry out a subjective listening Evaluation at
audio
"saloon" and detect positive subtle diff., he is very likely hearing
things.

Same stupid question.
The answer has been given to you several times. If one listens for subtle
differences without proper bias controls, no matter who they are, they are
very likely to beleive they hear differences that are not there.


But if Mr. Olive carrys out Subjective "listening" Evaluation at Harman
and detect positive subtle difference, he is likely to not hear things.

I have never said that.


Could you describe to me the specific differences in their senses
leading you to validate that Michael Fremer is very likely hearing
things?

It is not about Fremer or about Olive it is about bias, people have them and
can't escape them. That is why DBT's are the preferred method for determing
subtle differences, they control bias.

Olive would not likely be doing any sighted evaluations himself. They
tend to use groups of trained listeners in blind comparisons.


I'm not asking you if whether Mr. Olive would still be doing Subjective
Evaluation himself or use a group of trained listener. I'm asking you to
describe the specific differences regarding their sense to detect.

See the list of publications below in the Case for ABX.

I thought that was clear. Let me ask again (as I hope) to be equally
precise:

God no, not that well known Eddie precision.

What is/are the specific differences to their senses with regard to the
"ability itself" in detecting for sound differences -- leading you to
validate that Michael Fremer is very likely hearing things ?

See the list of publications I mentioned.

What is Mr. Olive "doing" there at Harman that causes him to NOT hear
things ----------- if both him and Michael Fremer's "ability to detect"
has not change when carrying out Subjective Evaluation ?

Why are you setting up a strawman? I've said several times now, that it
doesn't matter who is doing the listening, if it's sighted then it will very
likely lead to unreliable results.

I sniiiippp and disagree with all your comments hereafter.
But feel free to re-paste.


You disagree before I even respond? What a open minded guy you are.


I was referring to the comments you made below the part I snip.




I'm sorry if you don't like being told the truth. Feel free to continue
being the moron I always knew you were.


( You better pay attention to your position now because there is the
presence of imminent danger.)

From what? Are you going to bore me to death?