[Frank Stearns]

(Don Pearce) writes:

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:29:50 -0500, Frank Stearns
wrote:

PStamler writes:

On Sunday, April 26, 2015 at 12:11:29 AM UTC-6, Don Pearce wrote:

No. It is just a general problem that when adding reverb we tend to
lose track of how much we have used during the stress of a session.
Listening back a few days later it is quite usual to hear that it is
in fact overdone, and it needs to be backed off a bit. My advice is
just a time-saver.

I've told my students for years that the Iron Law of Reverb is to turn it up until
it sounds right...then turn it down 6dB.

The thing is, your ears acclimate to a level of reverb and don't hear it any
more...so you need to add more in order to hear it. Then, as Don notes, you come
back a couple of days later and it sounds like it was recorded in a cave.

I always print a mix with the reverb turned down 6dB from what sounds right, and
another mix with it turned down 6 *more* dB. About half the time, the latter mix is
what I wind up liking in the long run.

It's startling to me that even with "reverb fatigue" one could make a mix error on
the order of magnitude of even 3 dB, let alone 6 or 12. (In the classical and
acoustic music work I do, a reverb change of even 1 dB can be quite significant.)

I don't doubt the experience and observations, but I'm curious with two general
questions:

1. What music genres are we talking about where this rule seems to apply more often
than not?

2. Can you give some background on the reverbs used: general type, basic parameters
(such as decay time, predelay, EQ, and so on)

Thanks,
Frank
Mobile Audio

I think we're talking about the kind of genre where the reverb is an
effect rather than a subtle added air. ""If you notice it, it's too
much" would be the rule in that second one.

Depends on what you're trying to do -- or fix. One example: I've done several music
recordings now in the local theater, which is mostly voiced for stage plays and
spoken word. It has an RT60 of about 1.5 seconds at 1Khz, but then very quickly
drops to 50-60 ms by the time you hit 3K on out. It's horrid for choirs and
orchestras.

First time I brought back tracks from that place I wondered what was broken with my
kit. As I discovered, the only way to get good sound (such that the client goes,
"wow! never knew we sounded so good!") was to use several spots on stage, then
"pre-wash" EACH channel with a short-decay reverb, tilted toward the top end. That
was a good starting point; each channel in turn had a send to a "normal" set of
parallel stereo reverbs, again with a tilt toward the top end. (Normally, you'd
likely go the other way with reverb HF.)

So in this instance there's quite a bit of wet, but it's needed to make the music
believable because of what the hall has done.

Another example: you can take even a studio pop recording and add quite a bit of
front-to-back dimensionality with the right kind of reverb(s). It's the kind of
thing where you've created a lovely performance space with the reverb.

You don't notice just how good it is until you mute all the reverb returns.
That's when you notice how flat and dead everything becomes. (In this instance, a 12
dB drop in reverb return would simulate a near mute.)

What is required is detailed attention to the reverb field(s) being used -- just as
much mix effort as one might have put into dialing in any gain automations, EQs,
comps, etc.

Settings? Whatever - I don't think you could pin down anything
specific.

I have heard reverbs with a lack of predelay, too much predelay, inappropriate
spectral balance, etc, calling far too much attention to themselves as a result --
and if you can't adjust them then by all means, turn them down. But that might be a
bandaid on a more serious problem.

I suppose that my theme in these posts has been that reverb isn't necessarily bad,
but there surely are some bad reverbs out there (inherently, or by less-than-ideal
settings).

So, yes, maybe one should turn it down -- and maybe one should also examine the
settings before making a final reverb level decision.

YMMV.

Frank
Mobile Audio
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