Another proposal
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
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"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...
Hi Trevor.
Please re-read carefully what I wrote.
**Ok, done.
I am not suggesting for a moment that there is any substance
in most of these myths. I have taken part in too many tests.
**I know. I'm here to tell you that you are wrong. Skin effect is not a
myth.
It has no audible effect or significance in a typical domestic
hi-fi installation.
**Read what I wrote, liar.
Trevor. You frequently claim that I insult you. (Is
calling someone a salesman, when that is indeed
his profession, an insult?) while you yourself use
invective and call others liars. You seem to operate
a dual standard here. Please try to discuss this matter
in a rational and polite manner.
Your previous claim that it had, seriously
disrupted work in the Swedish Broadcast lab, due to
most of the staff being in convulsions of laughter.
I don't think we can afford to repeat that:-)
**You colleagues are morons. Skin effect is not a myth.
Neither. I or they said it was. You seem to have this fixation.
The morons to which you refer, are DipEng and above. Two
have doctorates in music also. I would pick their opinion over
that of a hi-fi salesman any day. Sorry Trevor, nothing personal:-(
I can see why as a salesman of high-profit bespoke cables,
you would wish things to be otherwise.
**Your attempt at switching from a discussion of audio equipment to
personal attack is duly noted.
How is that a personal attack?. You *are* a hi-fi salesman.
Just as I am a classical recording engineer. I don't jump up in a huff
when people ask me "Can't you do rock'n'roll?"
Salesmen are by definition sales orientated. This may not
always be in the best interest of the customer.
**I note your continued attempt to sway the discussion away from facts and
into personal attack. You are worse than a liar.
Not at all. You have a vested (financial) interest, as
does anyone else who has something to sell. It is
that simple.
Let's discuss your stupidity, shall we? You
claim that skin effect is mythical. It is not.
Neither do I claim it to be so.
**Yes, you did.
All together now ........:-)
I was talking about the musical experience from
SET.
**Irrelevant. SET amplifiers add distortion (measurable and audible) to
the signal. It is that distortion that proponents enjoy. Not the music.
Which, if you had half a brain, you would understand.
It's a personal choice which people make.
If this were not so, there would only be one amplifier manufacturer and
one brand of speaker. It is interesting that the amplifier with the best
bench performance, Halcro built in your native Australia, has only the
tiniest fraction of the market. The same can be said for speakers.
People do tend to choose the sound of equipment which may not
necessarily have the best bench performance. It's all down to
personal taste. You will have to learn to live with that.
Have you ever considered that people may have totally different
criteria to your own? The people who enjoy SET listen to a fairly
small range of recorded material, at which SET seem to excel.
When recording, some clients like the B+W 801D, others
ask for JBL or Tannoy and one for Sonus Faber. To each
his own.
No-one who has listened to the new Russian
recordings of the Shostakovich String Quartets on
a Resnikov amp into Lowther horns has failed to be
emotionally moved. Music is all about an emotional
experience, Trevor.
**Your point being?
That the objective of any audio system is to provide
musical enjoyment (that is one of the first things you
learn in Recording Arts, - the psychology of music).
Music of every genre is an emotional experience.
Some amplifiers/speaker/rooms combinations
can give you that experience - others cannot. Much
depends also on the expectations of the listener. That
is what people are concerned about, not how
many zeroes come to the right of the decimal point.
Like it or not, people with high expectations and
sufficient disposable income more often than not
pick a tube amp (and sometimes a SET)
They are usually cultured and well educated people,
who make their choice after extensive periods of
listening. I know many such people.
**So do I. They're deluded. What's your point?
How can you say they are deluded? They might
wonder why you cannot hear what they can hear.
You are in no position to criticise or belittle their
choice, however much your own taste may vary.
I have seen enough amplifiers measured to know
exactly the and shortcomings of SET. I have listened
to enough equipment, watched the reactions and heard
the comments of other listeners to know the strengths
of SET with the genre of music at which they
excel. The point you seem to miss (or perhaps ignore)
is that a SET with sensitive speakers is driving at a
fraction of 1W.
**So? A proper amplifier, used with sensitive speakers also operates at a
fraction of a Watt.
What do you mean by "proper" ?
Few people use high powered amplifiers with sensitive speakers.
There is no point. SETs and Lowthers make a good combination
and are the choice of many discerning listeners.
At this kind of level the THD is very
small indeed (much to small to be heard) They are
not intended for people who want to drive their
neighbours to distraction with Metallica:-)
**I note your deliberate avoidance of the very serious problems associated
with SET amps and your sole focus on THD.
This was expressly in reply to your comment about high levels
of distortion. At the power at which a good SET operates
(fractions of 1W) distortion is remarkably small.
But, Trevor. If you don't like SET, that's fine by me. There
are lots of alternative topologies by a myriad of makers. Let
people choose for themselves. You must not force your
opinion upon anyone. You may be fairly good at electronics
but it seems you know very litle about music, musical
instruments and pereceived timbre. This is what many
people are looking for.
I can see that Patrick's advice to me was correct regarding
the futility of discussion with you.
But the difference between us, Trevor, is that I have
nothing to sell, so I can be totally honest in my opinion.
**No. You can ply your delusions anywhere you wish, without being accused
of finanical bias. BIG difference. Don't you imagine, for one millisecond,
that I could pad my income very nicely, if I were to flog SET amps? I
could. Easily. However, I do have some integrity. I also lack your
delusional nature.
This is nonsense. IIRC a long time ago when I asked you on the Oz
group why you did not sell SETs you replied there was only a
very limited demand. So, it's once again a question of money,
not integrity. I notice that Rage does not hold the franchise for
Quad, Tannoy, JBL SME, CJ or B+W - just a few of the names
we rate highly in the EU. You also have no SETs and no tube amps
What *do* you sell, just out of interest?
No salesman can do that, unless he is making a choice
between two products both of which he has in stock:-)
It is understandable also that no salesman is happy to
endorse products for which he has no franchise.
This has become apparent in discussions with your
good self.
**You should also note that I am not deluded.
You might not think so:-)
I would rather not discuss with you at all. I did not solicit your reply,
but posted to Graham who I hoped would open the thread.
**You should have posted directly to Graham, rather than engage in
stupidity on a public forum.
I used Graham's name in my opening line. The post was intended for
all. You jumped the gun, and replied with your usual belligerent
cut and paste.
Please do yourself a favour, don't reply to my posts if they bring you
out in verbal apoplexy.
Iain
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