"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
news
: On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:16:10 +0200, "Ruud Broens"
: wrote:
:
:
: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
: .. .
: : On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:48:41 +0200, "Ruud Broens"
: : wrote:
:
: some snippin' required, so here goes
: : : Your idiocy continues. That's the noise floor of the concert hall,
: : : only studio recordings are able to get below a 30dB noise floor, and
: : : that would require pretty quiet breathing on the part of the
: : : performers.
: : : As noted above, with only me sitting quietly in it, my
: : : listening room is somewhere in the mid-20s (very difficult to measure
: : : due to self-noise in the microphone).
:
: : Interesting tactic - first rewriting music as _live music_, then claiming
: : from that point onwards that's what i wrote
: : - taken lessons in the debating trade ?
: :
: : Your stupidity appears to be unbounded - specifying live music, i.e.
: : acoustic jazz, classical etc, works in your favour, as amplified music
: : has even less dynamic range.
: :
: First: studio recording of acoustical instruments result in music
registrations
: --what's your hangup with 'concert hall noise floor' as being in some way
: relevant with such a registration?
:
: What, you think that studios don't have a noise floor?
not your 40 dB mentioned. Problem reading "Of course this.." ?
:
: Self-noise of competent microphones is below
: 20 dB SPL, eg. AT 3035 - a USD 200 job - states 12 dB SPL eq. noise level
: Close miking just about anything will quickly get you in the 110+ dB SPL
: range, so a 100 dB range is possible for sure.
:
: Utter bull****! Put one musician in that studio, and your 12dB floor
: immediately jumps to at least 20dB, more likely 25 as soon as he
: begins to play, and is therefore not sitting absolutely still. Do you
: have *any* concept of how quiet 20dB is?
Yeah, it's 20 dB above the average hearing treshold :-)
Do you have any idea how mediocre your microphone was, not being able
to determine 25 dB SPL background noise due to self-noise ? ;-)
: At that level (and I have
: spent some time in anechoic chambers - very unpleasant) the &only
: sounds you can hear are your clothing rustling as you breathe, your
: own breathing, and the blood coursing through your ears. It usually
: takes about two minutes of sitting absolutely still in an utterly
: quiet environment before you can perceive these noises.
&Strange. my experience is that i can hear _all sounds_ very well,
not just the bloody ears :-) in that situation.
:
: A typical string quartet will generate something like 30-35 dB in the
: rests between playing. Basically Ruud, your every post reveals that
: you know absolutely nothing about acoustics.
:
basically Stewart, your every post presupposes some type of music/some type
of instrument/some type of recording setting- have you actually made
any recordings or are you just quoting some textbook ?
: Of course this also depends on
: the lowest acoustical level attainable from the instrument/environment .
: Directional microphones / noise gates, etc. are used to minimize mechanical
: noise,
: if necessary.
: The master recording's dynamic range can, depending on composition, etc.,
: very well be in excess of 90 dB.
:
: I repeat, there is *no* music master tape with a dynamic range of more
: than 80dB, so as ever, your fanciful musings are at odds with reality.
:
: I believe it was dbx claiming a 100 dB requirement for the recording of
: acoustical instruments' performances.
:
: What a company *selling* companders may claim, has nothing to do with
: reality. Note that compansion is no longer used, since CD took over
: the music market.
:
: Second: many types of music don't use acoustical instruments, or exclusively
so,
: yet also do not start out as amplified music, so another strawman there
noted.
:
: *Many* types? I don't think so, but even there you're quite wrong -
: see below.
:
: Electronically generated signals can have pretty much a dynamic range that
: is limited by the electronics used, that is *well over 100 dB*.
:
: Actually, it's more like 70-75 dB for real-world electronic
: instruments. Get a grip, and stop making things up. The *reality* is
: that *no* music master tape, Pet Shop Boys and Mike Oldfield included,
: has a dynamic range of more then 80dB. Until you can find such a tape,
: please stop making such a fool of yourself.
:
tape ? where was tape introduced ? oh, i get it, another round of debating
trade.
: : : As from environmental factors, 27 dB daytime eq. reported in NL iirc.
: : : That's in average living rooms, should be better in your dedicated room
: : : , i presume.
: : :
: : : I have yet to find an *average* living room that quiet, I'd have said
: : : that 30-35 dB was more normal in daytime, more for urban dwellings.
: : :
: : : I'm not confusing, i'm detracting one from the other, eh ?
: : : in this case**, 110 - 20 = 90 dB range.
: : :
: : : From where did you get the 20?
: : I got lucky - found it in a breakfast cereal box
: : - where did you find your 40, P.?
: :
: : Acoustics textbooks, also wide experience or real concert halls.
: :
: make up your mind: is it wide experience OR real concert halls ?
:
: Typo, that should have been 'of', not 'or'. An *honest* debater would
: have realised this, and avoided such a pathetic cheap shot.
:
: :-)
: : ...deceptive editing noted.....**
: :
: : : but anyway, surely you're not
: : : saying that the background noise level in a listening room should
: : : dictate the range that should be captured on a medium ?
: : :
: : : No, you completely misread what I wrote. For most people, it does
: : : however set a limit of around 70-80dB in the replay system, from the
: : : 30-35 of the room noise floor to the 105-110 of the system at the
: : : listening position.
: :
: : agreed.
: :
: : Exceptionally quiet rooms housing exceptionally
: : : powerful systems can extend this to a little more than 90dB, which is
: : : wider than you'll ever need.
: :
: : a little more ? need ?? to use a direct quote: Bull****!
: : evidently, _you_ misread music as live music ...
: : without it, of course, you argumentation falls utterly apart.
: :
: : What lunacy is this? What kind of music do you now claim you are
: : talking about?
:
: See above.
:
: As I said - lunacy. And ignorance.
: --
sure, i ignore your 'facts' as they are not in fact factual, just your
imagination working overtime - there _is_ a difference
R.
: Stewart Pinkerton | Music is A - Ignorance is B