AudioBanter.com - View Single Post - Loudspeaker break-in

(Nousaine) wrote in message ...
(Robert C. Lang) wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote in message
...
My only concern is - how will I know when they have stopped
breaking
in, and started wearing out? You can't reasonably have one without the
other.....................

Does it necessarily follow that a period of "break-in" leads directly
into an immediate period of decline? Can it be that the break-in
period is followed by a lengthy "plateau" period in which performance
stays within minimum specification or peak efficiency before
noticeably or measurably beginning to wear out?

Why would that be implied? Do drag racers get faster with use? Do race cars
have to be broken-in?

I don't know about drag racers and racecars but I assume the principal
would be the same as with high revving motorcycles and automobiles.
The manufacturers strongly recommend that you keep the engine
revolutions down during the "break in" period, and that you change
your oil more frequently during the brake in period. Do these machines
perform better (faster) after they have been driven for a while? All
the car magazines say yes and have published times to support this
(not to prove anything). But of course they are not about to race a
car right off the assembly line. That could cause severe damage or
shorten the life of the engine. So may be the car is as fast right off
the assembly line as it is after the break in period. But we will
never know because no one is about to risk damage to his or her
expensive machinery to prove a point.

I'm not talking about just speakers, but any product that has moving
parts (but also electronics as well). If speaker materials do change
their behavior maybe it's like breaking in a pair of shoes; the first
minutes, or maybe even the first hours (hopefully not) the shoe will
quickly feel better as it "loosens up" and conforms to your
feet(hopefully not the other way around, but maybe your feet do a
little conforming also.) After the "break in" process the shoe has a
"constant" feel about it for months or years until they begin to
noticeably wear and start to feel uncomfortable again.

Sure; but that example has 'touching' moving parts. Your feet and body fluids
are in direct contact plus there is plenty of direct pressure from external
forces.

Isn't there a lot of direct pressure and environmental forces brought
to bear on speaker drivers, especially woofers?

I currently own 2 pair of Penny Loafers that are now 20 years old. Both have
had several set of soles/heels over the years. However I seldom wear them these
days and they both feel now feel "strange" when I do even though each pair was
well-broken-in and fully comfortable when rotated out of service. Sitting in my
closet didn't cause the shoes to change .... my feel and my feet are the only
change agents.

Not exactly. Shoes sitting in the closet for extended periods, such as
20 years, *do* change. Everything on the planet, unless they are
hermetically sealed begins to change/wear from the time it is
produced. The environment, even on shoes sitting in the closet, can
cause not so subtle change and deterioration. Nevertheless, your point
is well made because you would more likely changed far more than the
shoes.

Baseball gloves
are clearly that way. They can take a season to loosen up, and then
they stay seemingly constant for years.

This is pure conjecture. My glove never took a season to "loosen up" it began
loosening from the first day and never stopped. Just because I only played
baseball/softball in the summer months it may have psychological "seemed like
there was a lengthy full performance period."

Of course, your glove began to loosen up from the first day and never
stopped, which is why I used the word "seemingly" stayed constant. The
point is when first purchased the glove is not ready for a player
under game conditions until it's "broken in" as determined by the ball
player. The glove is just used in practice situations with the
previous glove still used for the game. And even when the new glove is
first used in "game" situations it still may not be completely broken
in. Then, perhaps over the next 2-3 years are so, as you correctly
point out, the glove will continue to "loosen", "wear", "deteriorate",
whatever term you feel is most appropriate, but all the while meeting
minimum specifications, as determined by the player, for good
performance. Then at some point it becomes too loose, too broken in
and it becomes time to break in a new glove.

Here's the counter example. How many times have you been ready to resume play
in the spring only to discover that your trusty glove became 'worn-out' over
the winter. Here's another good example; who has NOT found his old glove from a
past glorious period of baseball greatness and found it has has "worn-out"
sitting the closet?

Never really had those experiences or I have forgotten about them.
Perhaps because living in California, we literally coach and play
organized ball (in leagues) 10-12 months out of the year. We go right
from fall ball to winter ball. Of course, a glove sitting in the
closet for a long period of time, such as what you described, *will*
continue to deteriorate, like everything else on the planet, unless
its hermetically sealed. A closet will offer only partial protection
and may actually be harmful to leather because it's not maintained.
But, nevertheless, I see your point. Clearly, there are non-physical,
psychological factors at play here as well. But one does not mutually
exclude the other. And if speaker break in does exist it would involve
both, as all the other examples we have bee talking about.

Or the time when we had some
doors hung. They did not swing right, they were a little stiff, even
though they were hung properly.

A drop of oil and/or a sag of the hinges is a pretty good cure. But that's not
'breakin-in" If they were stiff when hung they weren't "properly" hung.

The craftsman assured us that in a few days, after breaking in (use)
they would feel fine. He was right; after a little use the doors began
to open and close (swing) as expected and have done so for years.

I'm not sure who was hanging your doors but if they were 'stiff' in the
beginning they should have been made right.

There is nothing to suggest that the doors were not hung properly to
begin with. Maybe the hinges, as stated by the craftsman, needed to
break-in for a day or two. In any event, it has been 20 years and the
doors work great. No oil was applied. They were not rehung. Improperly
hung doors cannot self correct.

There are other examples such as my motorcycle. The
clutch/transmission system was stiff when first purchased. Shifting
had to be done very deliberately and was audibly clunky. But in a few
days or weeks, as cautioned by experienced riders, shifting reached an
optimum tension level, became smoother, more quite and stayed that way
for many years before finally beginning to wear out (became loose and
unreliable). Many veteran BMW riders (not me) don't consider their
engines (not transmissions) fully broken in until after 40,000 miles.

First of all I think that 'getting used' to the action may apply to much of
this.

Of course, getting use to it plays a part, but that does not explain
the transmission smoothing out and becoming audibly quieter in a few
days. Again, there are physical and non-physical factors at play here.
One does not mutually exclude the other. You really don't believe that
the interaction, friction, or whatever of moving parts can cause this
kind of change?

It is true that
elastic parts (spider, surround) may change with wear but simple experiments
have shown that this type of "wear" doesn't occur with short periods of use.

That's all I'm talking about. Now whether these changes are audible is
an entirely different question, which for me is not a burning
question.

I have never formed an opinion on speaker break in because whether it
exists or not, the listener, it would appear, by taking the time to
listen over a few days or weeks, can make a more accurate, sensible
decision with respect to their tastes.

Now you are talking about "listener" acclaimitization or perhaps
training but
NOT speaker break-in.

Of course, I'm talking about (including)listener acclimatization, room
interaction, changes in the speaker and anything else that might
contribute to reaching a sensible decision for the buyer on whether he
or she will like the speakers for the long haul.

Resources for researching speaker break-in, if they do exist, should
probably be redirected for more worth while pursuits.

Robert C. Lang

This effect has been investigated. It's an urban legend.

Urban legend? I really don't believe the term was even in my active
vocabulary until I joined this group that will sometimes immortalize
certain subjects, such as speaker break-in. For me, personally,
speaker break-in has never been a factor in me buying or rejecting a
speaker. I really believe that the whole thing is overblown, in this
group, not by those who subscribe to the belief, such as Mr. Williams,
but more so by those who lambaste or ridicule those who do believe
that audible changes can occur in the first few hours or days with a
new speaker. The "urban legend", is being fostered and fueled, given
added airtime, by those that claim to want to squelch it. I believe
Mr. Williams was sincere with his request "that those who disagree
allow those of us they believe to be mistaken to continue in the error
of our ways without comment." Well, at least he gave it a shot.

I find speaker break in, true or false, not worthy of all the ire that
it draws. The phenomenon is finite, lasting only a few hours or days.
I have yet to personally know a victim; that is, anyone who has lost
money or were stuck with speakers they did not like because they were
misled into believeing they would love them after the return policy
had expired but before the break-in was complete. On the contrary I
and audiophiles that I know ensure that the return policy provides
ample time for a home trial to undo a mistake. It's not that
difficult!

On the other hand, speaker cables and interconnects have a much more
profound effect on the consumers pocketbook. I personally know many
audiophiles that have spent untold hundreds and thousands of dollars
on these accessories. Do high priced speaker cables and interconnects
make a difference? That is a far more burning issue for me because if
they don't make a difference thousands of audiophiles may have been
victimized.

Robert C. Lang

P.S.

May be we could conduct a poll, unscientific though it may be, on who
(and *how*)in this group has been victimized because of speaker break
in beliefs. I really would like to know.