Yes, Lull, you sound very much like me. I don't have endless means so I,
like you, make due with what I have and save my money until I can afford
what I consider adequate. Fortunately, quality amplifiers seem to work
forever so there has not been a need to replace my four amps in over 10
years (oh, other than upgrading my sub amp to a Class D model, a wonderful
Alpine MRV-850D I believe is the model number).
You, Lull, are definately the exception to the rule when I view out over the
vast car audio landscape. You, like me, continue to tweak and upgrade by
hook or by crook. Many upgrades are subtle changes to the car's electrical
system, or speaker positioning tweaks that cost nothing. Other upgrades
cost very little as well. And the large upgrades require a degree of
savings because, like you, I'm not going to compromise with crap.
But the point I was making is that there seems very few of us today. And
yes, I know, I CERTAINLY don't use 128kbps in my 8 gig Sansa. Everything is
256kbps, with the exception of a few songs which are 192kbps.
But as you well know, even at 256kbps, certain subtle sonic cues are lost
from the original CD. As you know no doubt know (I'm sure more intricately
than I do) that the nature of compression supresses sounds that may not be
audible, BUT ARE STILL THERE. It is these incredibly delicate sonic cues
that when played through a VERY good system add depth, width, and life to
the music that is lost even when compressed at 256kbps. You cannot argue
this fact. I have heard it many times when comparing CD's vs. music
compressed at even the highest bandwidth.
This goes to an entirely different debate often heard and lamented on those
Audiophile groups, the apparent backward trend society has moved regarding
SQ. There was the steady march forward: 78's, 45's, 33 1/3 record albums
(black round discs made of vinal compounds for anyone younger than 30), then
cassette tapes and ultimately CD's. We then saw future advancements like
HDCD which promissed TRUE multichannel sound (unlike quadrophonic, an
interesting, but ultimately disapointing experiment in the early 70's) and
increased bandwidth! (beyond the 20hz-20kHz we all became conditioned to
with CD's) which held the promise of a recording that captured entirely ALL
the sonic attributes of a live performance (although the human animal, it's
said, cannot hear frequencies above 20kHz, we are certainly aware they are
there and it is one of the subtle clues we use when determining if we are
listening to recorded, or live music as many instuments produce harmonics
well above 20kHz).
Truly exciting stuff, right around the corner!
And then it all ended with the introduction of the MP3 format and the nearly
immediate love Americans had for the format (I admitt it, I love it). Now
we could hold our ENTIRE music collection (THOUSANDS of songs) in the palm
of our hand with an iPod. Convience won out over quality. It's sad, but
true. But hell, I'm not giving up my Sansa and going back to discs, no way.
So am I a hypocrit. I suppose, but what I lament is the apparent lack of
ambition people seem to have now to improving the sound in their car.
256kbps can sound damn good. And hell, maybe those subtle sonic cues simply
can't be heard in a moving car anyway so does it really matter? Perhaps
not.
But again, I just sense a lack of motivation on the part of Americans to
make their cars sound as good as they possibly can.
THAT is what I rant about and why this group has become a ghost-town.
MOSFET
"Mister.Lull" wrote in message
...
Well, since you're bored... }:-)
I'll have you know that some of us who insist upon using mp3 players
do still understand that the quality isn't the best - but 128kbps?! I
haven't ripped or downloaded anything with that low of a quality since
college, man!
The lowest bit-rate I use on my Creative Labs Zen V Plus is 256kbps -
and that's only because it's old music that I've been too lazy to re-
rip or re-purchase. The iPod, in general, can kiss my ass. I have an
8GB solid-state drive, an FM tuner, a microphone, line-in
capabilities, a 12-band equalizer, and an OS that doesn't drain the
battery when the unit is powered off for the exact same price as an
8GB iPod.
The only thing that keeps me from building and integrating a full-on
vehicular PC with absolutely top-notch (aftermarket) deck and the best
speakers available is the fact that I have no income to spare. So,
what I've done is taken a look at the options available to me with the
means I have, and gone forth - not looking back or scrimping and
saving for years until I can afford the best equipment.
Eventually, I'll be able to afford to go out and buy a deck like the
one I've been drooling over for months, now:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KDAV...44.html?tp=448
Until then, I'm fairly happy with what I have:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2462751
To bring this around for you, I find that until I can simply go and
buy what I want:
I'm building better boxes, to better the sound of the sub I have.
I'm learning the the output voltage of a device is it's defining
quality through my system.
I'm thinking of small quirky things I can do/build for little expense
(remember my ashtray lcd temp. readout?).
I'm making the best with what I have.
~Mister.Lull
...........well, you said there was nothing going on... :-)
On Apr 1, 9:46 pm, "MOSFET" wrote:
Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.
IASCA's dead. Alpine has stopped putting advanced parametric EQ's and
time-alignment features on their decks. People ONLY seem to care about
integrating their iPod's substandard MP3 quality music with their
substandard sounding (OK, they have gotten much better over the years)
factory systems. GOD FORBID you tarnish the seamless beauty of your new
car's elegant dashboard with an "aftermarket deck" (said with a distainful
tone).
Is it truly a trade-off: thousands of songs at your fingertips vs. concert
hall quality sound? Can you have both? I don't see why not. It can be
done.
There is basically NOTHING happening in this once venerable Usenet group.
I
remember when the "gods" like Manville Smith, Matt Ion, Mark Zarella, Ian
Bjorhovde, and others dispensed wisdom on a daily basis and the ultimate
goal of a "concert hall on wheels" was considered the ultimate nirvana and
endlessly discussed and debated.
What's happened? I think it primarily boils down to the fact that people
today are less likely to mess with their integrated dashboards, and that
factory systems have improved dramatically. Add to that the fact that
people now consider 128 kbps to be "quality sound", where's the need to
improve imaging and staging when those subtle sonic cues are no longer to
be
found in the music. I mean, if you think 128 kbps is "as good as it gets",
you will never hear the difference between good speakers, and incredible
speakers.
Well, I still care and I still strive for better and better sound in my
car.
I can HONESTLY say that the system in my car sounds better than ANY system
I
have ever had (and I competed in IASCA, and did pretty well, in the mid
90's). Quality aftermarket speakers today truly sound incredible, as do
today's amplifiers and head-units. But it's the speakers of today that
REALLY impress me. The tightness and clarity of my Alpine Type R 6.5"
midbass speakers STILL amaze me nearly every day, and I've had them for
over
a year now (but they do need TONS of power, almost like a subwoofer, 150
watts RMS just to the midbass drivers, another 50 to the tweeters). I'm
sure recent subwoofer technology changes (like incredibly increased Xmax
figures) have something to do with these incredible midbass drivers.
The point is that car audio IS still improving, you just have to know
where
to look. I don't think I will EVER stop improving my car's sound system
(for that matter, I'm sure I won't ever stop improving my home theater).
But it's sad to see so little happening in this group because I have
ALWAYS
thought car audio far more interesting than home audio. I mean, any rich
guy can go out and spend $50,000 on some Krell, Audio Note, Lamm,
Goldmund,
etc. gear and have fantastic sound in their home, no problem. But the
sonic
challanges of the car make EVERY car audio system different and unique.
That's what makes this hobby great. That is what I fell in love with many
years ago, the desire to have a sound system in my car that equalled (and
sometimes surpassed) my home system. It is easy to create great sound in a
large, square room. The fun is creating that same sound in a cramped
environment full of sonic challanges.
Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right?
Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death
of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'.
MOSFET
Ian D. Bjorhovde