"Chung" wrote in message
...
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On 20 Apr 2005 23:59:14 GMT, Chung wrote:

wrote:

But, if you cannot hear the
complexity of the decay of a sustained note on a real live piano maybe
you simply aren't picking up on the substantial differences between a
live piano and the recording and playback of a live piano.

So you are saying that you cannot observe the complex amplitude decay of
piano music on CD's?

Here is a good one for you to try out:

Emil Gilel's Beethoven Sonata #8 (Pathetique) on DG 400036-2. This is an
early 1980 digital recording. You can easily find it at the local
library. Check out track 1. Listen to the solid frequency stability of
the big chords. See if that sounds like a real piano in your experience.

What a bizarre coincidence! I only have half a dozen or so solo piano
recordings, but that superb performance is one of them, and the first
part of the 'Pathetique' is indeed a superb recording of the natural
decay of a solo piano, as is the 'Moonlight' on the same CD.

On vinyl, there would be impossible distractions from wow and surface
noise, but that CD is an immaculate recording which allows the natural
sound of the piano to flow into your listening room. Wheeler is just
plain wrong about this.


I mentioned that particular recording because I also have the vinyl
version. Now someone may want to argue that I do not have the ultimate
vinyl gear, but the CD is simply superior in every respect: stability of
the tones (frequency domain) in sustained notes, the huge dynamic range
that allows the big chords to decay to silence and the quiet passages
(like the Moonlight Sonata) to come through cleanly, and the lack of any
surface effects or tracking distortion. All this from a 1981 digital
recording.


I continue to wonder if those who claim in the past to be horrified by
wow and flutter on piano tones when playing vinyl, or who go on and on
about clicks and pops, ever really optimized their vinyl setup.

In the first place, no decent vinyl rig should have audible wow or
flutter on its own. If it does, then it needs a belt, idler wheel, or
DD motor replaced. Secondly, the arm and cartridge must be
matched...high compliance cartridge with low mass arm, medium
compliance with medium mass arm, and low compliance with high mass
arm. Any other combination will result in anomanolies caused by
stylus compression or unweighting.

Third, records must be cleaned. I don't necessarily mean with a
washer, but at least cleaned with a record brush before every playing
or as I do using Last cleaner fluid and application brush. Otherwise
the stylus will run into grunge in the grooves which will distort
sound in addition to creating lots of the dread clicks and pops, which
will only become worse with time if they are ground in by playing an
uncleaned record. If you have a supply of Last record preservative
(hard to get these days) treatment will create records that sound
subtly cleaner in the mid's and high's, an effect that is permament
(only need to treat once). It must also be mentioned that a bi-radius
or line-contact stylus is necessary to minimize noise and get the most
from the grooves.

Finally, a record clamp is needed to prevent vinyl resonance..no using
one will accentuate pops and clicks and can cause slight
disintegration of image localization.

All this of course is to naught if the cartridge is not matched
properly to the preamp input. This requires an effort to get and
understand information and to work to make whatever changes are
required to get that optimization. This is one area where most high
end phono preamps made the job much easier than lower priced preamps,
which tended to be non-adjustable. Since 1990 I have used three
different cartridges in three different turntable/arm/cable combos and
into two different headamps/preamps. I hve never been unable to get
the cartridge/turntable/preamp combo to sound tonally identical to my
CD players during this period of time. There are still subtle
differences, often to the preference (in my case) to phono, but they
are subtle and not in any way major difference in tonality.

When all is right, their needs be little or no difference between CD
and vinyl. Including wow and flutter. Case in point, I picked the
top record off the group of RCA's I had out, which was Van Cliburn
playing the Rachmaninoff 2nd Piano Concerto with Fritz Reinger and the
Chicago Symphony orchestra. I recently picked this up as a $2 used
record, but only played it once now that I also have the SACD release
of this same recording. This is not the original, but a Dynagroove
re-release on inferior, thin vinyl. Accordingly it is somewhat warped
and especially vulnerable to vinyl resonance. So put it on the
turntable (at this point a modest Dual 701 with Accuphase AC-2 MC
cartridge, into a modified Marcoff PPA-2 headamp). Cleaned it, clamped
it, synced the start with my Sony C222ES SACD machine...and listened
through the whole piece, occassionally switching back and forth CD to
Vinyl and back. The two where reasonable level matched and synched.
Other than an occassional low-level pop (maybe one a minute) I'd be
hard pressed to remember which I was listeing to. Plenty of sustained
tones and no difference in wow and flutter. The record was showing
plenty of warp, but the cartridge and arm were riding the groove with
equanimity and no sign of "bounce".

My conclusion, if you really want to enjoy your records, make the time
and effort to optimize your system...the annoyances of vinyl will be
largely minimized and the sound quality may astound you.