Thanks to all who answered!
I think I owe an answer to each one although not everybody might find it interesting.
geoff wrote:
Dunno about hte ATM350 sorry.
But should have checked here first re C1000S . Batteries or phantom,
should sound like being stung by a wasp. Unless they've totally
redesigned it !
geoff
I've scrolled down to threads started in July 2015 and had no results searching for C1000S, if you have a link to that thread handy I'd be interested to read through it.
By "stung by a wasp" you mean uneven response in some frequency range or...?
Redesigned with respect to when or what other model?
(I hope for them they redesign that piece which supports the batteries and the capsule, or use a better material for it.)
From tests in a room which natural reverberation I like, I find that the trumpet bell has to stay close to the C1000S head, 3-4 cm, in order to capture the same "fat" sound I hear in the room (by "fat" I mean with good presence of mid-low frequencies).
Alternatively, without exploiting proximity, the mic can stay 20-30 cm away, but then I need to also record the sound from far away in the room, *not* pointing the mic to the trumpet, instead to the ceiling for instance (tests needed), in order to get that "fat" portion of the sound (a P170 is not too bad for that, although it gave me a very low hum noise that I don't get with the C1000S, not difficult to "notch down" anyway). By only EQing the C1000S I didn't get to an equally good result.
Mixing the two tracks is not too critical as the take from far away lacks "detail", but it might a good precaution to realign the timing of the two tracks to avoid phase distortion, e.g. by delaying the take of the closest mic, an impulsive noise at the beginning of the take can be useful.
(BTW recording _only_ from far away lacks detail to my taste. Also, bounces in the room can be very critical and give nasty results, with the trumpet more than with most other instruments IMO.)
Ty Ford wrote:
AHEM!
The ATM 350 has not been discontinued.
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...b0b/index.html
[...]
Ohhh I see now, thank you! That's the replacement, ATM 350a, the ATM 350 is here, actually discontinued:
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...870fb398e6978/
Scott Dorsey wrote:
To be honest, I really don't like miking trumpet bells. Yeah, the
performer doesn't need to be in front of a mike, but the sound is never
as natural as a mike at a greater distance. And with something like the
RE-20, the performer can move around an awful lot without problems even
using a stand mike. [...]
Yep, the bell is supposed to vibrate freely...
I've searched the RE-20 on YouTube, found a sax take, nice sound. However:
- Wouldn't the fact that you can move around that much mean that its polar pattern is not very directional, maybe not even cardioid, thus making it more prone to Larsen problems in a live gig? (Well, I reckon that being on a fixed stand it is anyway less prone to bad surprises than a mic on the bell moving with the musician.)
- So far, I've been using the AKG 519 on the bell only with mutes of "Harmon" type. Not only this mutes usually reduce the volume quite a lot (most open types give a sound more similar to a "Straight" mute), but, also, to record the most interesting sound from them, IMO, the mic needs to stay at a rather short distance, typically 2-3 cm, around one inch. Too close can give excessive proximity and low frequencies, and the mic can even obtrude the emission and capture wind noise.
Positioning at such short distance is kind of critical, of course, because a small absolute change is a big relative one, not only with a mic on stand, but also with a mic clipped onto the bell, meaning that when moving the mic to unplug/plug the mute you need to try to repeat the same mic positioning that the sound guy in the gig has already come to handle.
The support of the AMT mic you mention in the rest of your comment (P800 is the trumpet one) might actually permit to plug/unplug the mute without moving the mic. I've checked YouTube... the few videos I found with that mic give a nice but rather "thin" sound... I guess with the same support you might place it closer to the bell and also very close to the mute. There's plenty of reverb anyway in those videos, not so easy to have a more precise idea of how the mic itself sounds. I'd be happy to try/buy one but I see that here in Argentina you can only get AMT mics on demand and the price ends up being 3-4x the price in the USA, the Z1 flute for instance (can't find the P800) is 1338 USD vs. 332, at the current change rate.
Now, admittedly, I'd really like to be able to start avoiding staying stuck to a stand mic _also_ when playing with open trumpet, which would also allow to give a look at some other musician of the band while playing... but I'd also like to avoid Larsen effects while doing so, so the mic should be rather cardioid or super/hyper cardioid.
(On the wish list I also have a lightweight not too expensive compact clean sounding processor with combined Phantom/jack input(s), reverb, EQ and compression with parameters as clearly identifiable as the ones you find in DAWs, e.g. Ableton Live, so I'll have to research on that one too, but that would be another thread in this forum anyway.)
I searched YouTube and ebay for the Shure SM-11 too, quite interesting, less then half the price of the Proel HCS30... Alas I found no trumpet takes, nor sax ones.
It lacks a support suitable for the trumpet, apparently. Is there any suitable third party support out there with good shock absorption? (As for theProel HCS30, as I wrote befo surprisingly nice sound for the price, but not enough shock absorption to avoid receiving the valves vibrations.)
But I see that Shure also makes the WB98H/C, 209 USD on ebay USA, "only" twice in Argentina and apparently it is available. I searched YouTube, hey Chris Botti endorses it, with his beautiful sound.
Not clear if the default capsule is "unidirectional (cardioid)", or the RPM108 cardioid, or the RPM110 supercardioid, I doubt it comes with more than one anyway. Also, reading questions/answers in a local seller's page, it's not clear if you can buy the mic and later decide to connect it to a wireless transmitter, it would seems as it's two different mics, strangely enough and unfortunately, well I'll have to find out.