[Arny Krueger]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message

On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 12:34:34 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"Audio Empire" wrote in
message

but some cheap mass-market electronics were still using
aluminum electrolytics to couple audio stages, and not
too long ago either (don't know about today). Heck the
ubiquitous Sony PCM-1610, 1620, and 1630 family of
digital processors which were used almost exclusively in
the early days of CDs to master them, were full of
aluminum electrolytic capacitors between (741 op-amp)
filled stages.

So what? There's zero evidence that electroltics cause
audible problems when appropriately used, which includes
in and across the signal path.

You've obviously never listened to early CDs.

You should know better. I think you're just being gratuitously insulting (as
the moderator noted).

I owned one of the first CDP 101 players sold in the SE Michigan area. At
one time I owned *every* CD title that was being sold by the largest chain
in town. I scoured the largest record stores throughout the midwest when I
was building my CD collection in the early days. I still have an operational
CDP 101 at my disposal, and know exactly how it sounds and performs on the
bench.

What I immediately perceived that the vast majority of CDs provided the best
listening experience available, even when played on the primitive players of
the day.

By then we'd been ABXing for years and knew that the capacitor paranoia that
was relatively new at the time was based on fear, not science.

Of course it wouldn't surprise me to find that you didn't (don't?) notice
the distortion.

It wasn't there. Both objective measurements and reliable listening tests
failed to find it.

What is interesting to me is that eliminating capacitors from the audio
chain is currently being done and with audible benefits, but not for the
reasons that high end audiophiles have been obsessing about for years. And,
its being done in the lowest cost products.

It turns out that due to space constraints, output coupling capacitors can
cause sonic problems in portable music players. The root cause is the use
of battery power which provides a single-ended power supply unless there is
considerable additonal complexity and expense. Eliminating the resulting
voltage offsets is usually done with large-value coupling capacitors due to
the low load impedance presented by most modern headhones and earphones. One
of the sonic benefits of the sub-$30 Sansa Clip as compared to far more
expensive products is the fact that it uses an active reference voltage
source to eliminate output coupling capacitors, thus preserving flat low
frequency response, low source impedance and low distortion down to the
lowest audible frequencies.

AFAIK there has never been a reliable published report that showed
improvements or even changes in real-world conventional home or audio
production grade audio gear due to capacitor upgrades.

The idea that one has to go to extremes to have a good
sounding audio compoent is just another audiophile myth.

And you'd certainly know, wouldn't you, especially given
your agenda here.

I only know what I read in reliable sources, hear via reliable listening
tests and measure on my test bench. The people in the industry that I listen
to are AES Fellows and people whose system designs have sold in the
100,000s. If you wish you can cite the hype we hear from salesmen, but
their credibility is not the same.

Many people are beginning to notice that even though doing reliable
listening tests and comprehensive bench tests is easier and being done by
more people than ever, confirmation of the fantastic claims of the high end
capacitor paranoids have never been supported, let alone been proven.