Steven said

Similarly, cable technology was pretty much worked out by the end of the
60's.
Its 'findings' are now part of standard textbooks too.



I said


That's all nice and well but it doesn't prove anything until you take every
known threshold of human hearing and test it to every known distortion in
amplifiers and cables when being used in every possible playback
configuaration. (This is not to say that I think every possible system must
be
tested but every real world product that pushes the extremes of conditions
would need to be included in the scope of things.)



Tom said


This line of argument is common in the high-end scheme of things. Because any
given experiment hasn't included every possible condition in the world we
should feel free to ignore it when we don't like the result.



That is not what was being discussed. the question was about deriving global
conclusions of the audibility of amps in playback simply by using what we know
about human thresholds of hearing and measured distortion in amps. hence your
point is a straw man. There was no discussion of any given experiments.

Tom said


This tries to establish a hurdle that no one could EVER clear.


Not at all. It simply sets up a reasonable condition for drawing global
conclusions about the audibility of amplifiers and wires in any playback system
that is strictly deducted from the scientifically valid data on human hearing
thresholds and the data on amplifier and wire distortions.

Tom said

Therefore, in
spite of no confirming evidence, there will never be enough contradictory
evidence to put down whatever claim I make.



Why? Is it so hard to apply the known thresholds of human hearing to the
measured performance of the most extreme designs of amplifiers or cables when
using the most sensitive and revealing speakers of the commonly used designs?
If you want to make global claims of audibility simply by using the data on
human thresholds of hearing and the measured performance of components don't
you have to, at the very least, use the extremes of various designs of
amplifiers and wires with the most sensitive and revealing of speakers of each
commercially available genre? i was very clear in stating one does not have to
use every possible variation of every possible playback system. If one wants to
draw any global conclusions using this specific angle to the question one has
to consider the many extreme possibilities of amp/ wire / speaker combinations.
then one has to consider every measurable distortion and then apply it to the
known data of human thresholds of hearing. Maybe that is whay this isn't the
best way to attack the issue.

Tom said


Likewise even one positive result like that recently reported about cd players
means that EVERY player ever made sounds different from all other players. And
any evidence to the contrary must be disregarded even when the positive was
single blind and had not confirmed synch.



Straw man arguement. I never made any such claims about CD players.

Tom said


As Michaell Schermer says with myths the evidence never gets any better.


The evidence certainly gets better than the two dozen articles you cite as
conclusive scientifically valid proof about the audibility of amps and wires
when scientists are drawing conclusions and calling them factual.


Tom said

In
spite of decades of experimental attempts to uncover amp/cable sound outside
those causes well-known the evidence is always right around the corner or was
produced but not understood by even professionals in the field according to the
proponents but none of them (even the "professionals" have never been able to
deliver a smoking gun.)



And in all those decades no one ever bothered to put together a test for peer
reviewed publication. The decades of testing don't amount to much when you
look at it in through perspective of real scientific investigation.