"no useful info" wrote in message ...
"nmstevens" wrote in message
om...
"Robert Morein" wrote in message
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"TonyP" wrote in message
. net...
Robert Morein wrote:

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
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[snip]

I'm not into this sort of generic "feel-goodism" -- whoever said that
just because somebody gave you a ticket out of the womb that that
necessarily means that you're a great guy? Maybe you are, maybe you're
not. Maybe you should feel good about yourself. Maybe you shouldn't.
That very much depends on who you are and how you've been behaving.
Maybe your entire life needs a major overhaul before you start feeling
good about yourself and you ought to start today.

If I were to endow my children with any quality that I think is
important -- I would say that it is far more important that they know
themselves -- than that they "feel good" about themselves -- because
if you know yourself, you'll know whether you *should* feel good about
yourself.

NMS

Neal,
Very well put. I did not mean to convey that meaningless positivism is
a point of good parenting. But what I got from the thread, with all the male
rage that came out, was that the emphasis is on the wrong thing. Perhaps I
would feel differently if I had been witness to more difficult children.

There was not a single use of the word "love" in the thread.


My feeling is this -- love, like a lot of words, has been used so
often that, as a word, it's been devalued. Talk is cheap.

The only love that has any meaning between a parent and a child is the
love that exists through the work of parenting -- and it is not one
bit less present when you punish as it is when you praise.

A child inappropriately punished has been inappropriately parented.

But a child inappropriately praised -- has not one whit less -- been
inappropriately parented.

Both can yield results that are, as adults, less than sterling.

The trouble is -- it's very easy to fall into the trap of
"inappropriate praise" -- because, after all, isn't it good to always
be positive, always be upbeat, always try to find something good to
say, something to compliment, some way to make your child feel good
about himself, even when he's failed, not done his work, been lazy,
careless, sloppy, or evil?

Until after awhile, it becomes automatic -- and a parent actually
starts to believe that everything a child does is good - that their
child can do no wrong, that everything bad that happens must be due to
something else -- bad teachers, bad playmates, society, the stars --
or *them* -- anything but the responsibility of the child himself.

I've met these kids -- and these parents. When a kid was knocking
something over and I said, "Hey, no, don't do that," and the Mother
said, very offended, "We don't say, "no" to our son."

That was years ago. I wonder what they say to him now -- when they
visit him in prison, which is where the little brat probably ended up.

What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest
act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to
be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if,
at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process.

Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post.

NMS