On 14 Sep 2005 02:45:43 GMT, wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 9 Sep 2005 02:42:45 GMT, Jenn wrote:

In article , Chung
wrote:

This reminds me of a post I made on March 24, 2004:
***
Objectivist: Saying that the elephant can fly is an extraordinary claim.
Prove it.

Subjectivist: Proof? This is only an hobby. There is a problem with
objectively proving, because every time you really sit down, bring in
your cameras and recorders, and carefully observe an elephant, you can't
see it flying. The process of trying to catch it flying and that of
observing elephants in nature are two really different tasks. No one has
ever proven that anything could not fly this way.
***

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...5c9b8c?dmode=s
ource

Interesting. I see it more this way:
Subjectivist: On a certain recording through various audio systems, the
trumpets sound nothing like trumpets I've ever heard live.

Objectivist: There is no indication from my measuring devices that
indicate that those trumpets sound less like real trumpets, therefore
there is no proof of your statement, therefore your statement is false.

That is a typical 'subjectivist' strawman.

Objectivist: When the speakers and the trumpeter stand before you,
behind a thin gauze curtain, can you still tell which is playing? If
not, then your statement is false.

I took what Jenn wrote to be something like this: that between two
sounds A & B, both of which are not exactly like a trumpet and can
easily be distinguished from a real trumpet and from each other, which
one is closest to a real trumpet? Which is definitely a matter of
opinion and perspective.

The point is that Jenn claimed the *objectivist* position to be
related only to measurements, which is plainly not the case. A DBT is
a *listening* test, and in that sense subjective - but it is *reliably
and repeatably* subjective.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering