On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:13:49 +0000, Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Nousaine wrote:

What the DIY producer can do .... is make cabinetry that is elegant,
unique and magnificently finished. There's nothing wrong with that but,
after building, measuring and listening to hundreds of OEM and DIY full
range and satellite speakers over the years I can think of exactly 2
that could not be equalled or bettered by a commerical product for
significantly less money.

And here we disagree. With enough time, testing, and tweaking of the
design, a DIYer can easily equal the low-end offerings from most every
manufacturer.

Also, designs and plans for older speakers from the 80s and 90s are
available, as well as several major manufacturers that offer kit
versions of their high-end speakers. All of this data gets absorbed and
passed around. A decade ago, The Web was in its infancy. Now, it
facilitates the exchange of this data to such an extent that a smart
DIYer can start up their own speaker business and do well enough.

Take KEF or B&W or Tannoy. A pair of MXm-2s doesn't have any magic
happening in the cabinet - it's a rectangular box with a few tweaks to
improve the bass since it's ported. The technology, other than the
shielding, is well-understood 1980's designing.

Contrary to popular belief, the big companies don't spend very much if
any time developing their lower-end "budget" models. Certainly nothing
that a DIYer with enough time and patience couldn't do.

The guy who runs Ellis Audio has been at it for several years and has
easily more man-hours than KEF would spend on a comparable sounding
speaker. KEF would of course have several people working for a few
months on the design versus his several years by himself.

Joseph..I would tend to agree with Mr. Nousaine here. I tend to
"kid" him about some hardline stances on other issues, but in the
matter of sub-woofers, I tend to follow what he says pretty
close! Noting that he has a monster DIY sub system that can be
driven by Crown amps that put out about 5000 watts...I would
consider him a bonafide DIY'er. Note also that he does write
articles about various classes of subs...a good series to get you
"in the ballpark" when looking at a given class of sub. He has
listened to more subs than I ever will in my lifetime.

Note that he said "...exactly 2 that could not be equalled or
bettered by a commercial product for "significantly" less money.

I dabbled at this a few years ago...found his statements ring
very true. I now have a commercial sub...when placed correctly
that rumbles around 16-18cps..setting forth dishes, etc vibrating
upstairs. I'm getting some air movement at 15cps but I shall not
question Mr. Nousaine on this point. Being a pipe-organ buff I do
appreciate a deep solid throb in the large pipes set off with the
pedals. A controlled "throb" is of more interest here than a sub
losing control at these frequencies where we've gone into the
"feeling" area as opposed to the "hearing" area. The placement of
mikes in this recording scenario is critical.

Leonard...