Nousaine wrote:

I personally cut subs off with a hard filter or digital processor
at 60hz. Higher than that is directional in my house and is
going to be interfered with by the true LF sounds. This means
good mains. 6-8 inch woofers and 40-50hz cleanly.

Those are really hard to find IME. And you're wasting the dynamic capability of
the "sub" woofer.

True, but finding is half the fun, no? That I have 10 inchers
in the front speakers kind of helps some. I put out better bass
than most systems with a subwoofer. No magic - just bigger than
6 inch speakers and a little quality.

BTW - yes, I've heard a LOT of god-awful flabby and chuffy subs
over the years. It's not rocket science anymore, but it does
require a better than $30 15 inch speaker.

There ain't nosuch thing as a $30 15 AFAICT. Even those cheap instrument
speakers aren't all that cheap.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-345
There is. Unfortunately. I see $60 15 inch sub listed as well, and
we all know that retail pricing is at least double what a major
speaker company buys them for.

The cheapness of speaker makers is becoming almost legendary.

With massive outsourcing causing quality to suffer, almost
anyone can spend the same in parts and cabinets and make
a better speaker untill you hit the $1000+ range, where
some specialized/customized designs start to appear.

Even Tannoy's under $1000 speakers are cheap crud
that almost anyone could out-do. Among the best
cheap crud available, mind you, but a "kit" doesn't
require even $400 in materials to equal them, even
if you are paying retail pricing.

Others have measured it. Typical of most HTIB setups, the bass
"module" is made out of LDF or plastic or simmilar and resonates
quite readily.

Let me ask this: who has measured this? I've heard such claims but have not
seen replicable confirmation. Indeed the only "measurements" of Bose speakers I
can recall were made by ....me.

I don't know about the measurements, but the construction is well
documented as many people have pulled them apart to take a look.

Of course, even Kef and Paradigm and Tannoy and so on use cheap
as posible materials in most anything other than their flagship
models. I'd certainly not use screws and plastic veneer and
the wires they use.

My current "hobby" project is to make a speaker comparable
to what Ellis Audio sells but for $600 a pair and start selling
them at just above cost - maybe $50-$100 flat markup per pair
for labor.

I have a feeling that the audio industry is very much like
Real Estate and the Stock Market of old - huge markups and
commissions for basically being a secretary and shuffling paper
around. 500% markup is nuts. I think eventually audio and
Real Estate will move towards a flat fee scheme, which will
mean a win-win for everyone. Last I checked, E-Trade was
trouncing Merryl Lynch in profits - at $5 a trade.

A $600 speaker competing with $2000 ones - that should
shake up the industy some.

They already did this with computers, afterall. 20+
years ago, they were sold with crazy markups. Now, they
are a commodity and as of last month, 75% of the U.S.
now has internet access. Almost 50% has a computer.

It depends. Some do - some do not. Many *do* suck at low frequencies.

Which ones "do"? Smaller cone drivers simply do not have the basket geometry
and suspensions to allow increased displacement with "stroke."

As I said, A few do, but it's liiterally a handful. Most cost too
much, so moving to a larger driver makes sense. IMO, a 7-8 inch
is just right for most low frequency work in a "bookshelf" speaker.

4-6 isn't going to work and remain affordable.

I'm constantly amazed at the utter rubbish that makers foist off on us
in most speakers. You can tell it's a $10 driver just by looking at
where it is made and the obvious errors and quality control issues.

????? If you mean Israel and un-even glue up I'm guessing you mean a popular
brand that you seem partial to. But, on the whole I'd agree ..... we propably
get off-spec parts over the counter.

There are actually two compnaies with the name Morel that make
speakers, so I've heard - and one is cheap crud. The other is
okay but not "good" for their woofers and above average for
the tweeters.(yes, there is a legal battle going on)

Seas and Scanspeak seem to make decent midranges and woofers.

http://www.morelusa.com/ - crud.
http://www.moreleurope.com/morelhtml.htm - click on the Morel Ltd Link
and read the popup. I'd still rate Morel woofers as "ehhh".
Their car audio line is also "ehhh".

Their tweeters are good, though.

JBLs. This was primarily because the 23.4mm Xmax of the TC Sounds more than
offset the 10mm JBLs 60% more cone area.

Nice to know. How much do they cost?

Contact TC Sounds in San Diego.

www.tcsounds.com - bookmarked. Thanks.
(checks)
2 *inch* X Max? Holy crap. Heh.