Joseph Oberlander wrote:

....some snips......

Nousaine wrote:

BTW - yes, I've heard a LOT of god-awful flabby and chuffy subs
over the years. It's not rocket science anymore, but it does
require a better than $30 15 inch speaker.

There ain't nosuch thing as a $30 15 AFAICT. Even those cheap instrument
speakers aren't all that cheap.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-345
There is. Unfortunately. I see $60 15 inch sub listed as well, and
we all know that retail pricing is at least double what a major
speaker company buys them for.

Please; this woofer is not a 15-inch "subwoofer". Go ahead and try to make a
subwoofer out of it .... I dare you :-)

The cheapness of speaker makers is becoming almost legendary.

With massive outsourcing causing quality to suffer, almost
anyone can spend the same in parts and cabinets and make
a better speaker untill you hit the $1000+ range, where
some specialized/customized designs start to appear.

Even Tannoy's under $1000 speakers are cheap crud
that almost anyone could out-do. Among the best
cheap crud available, mind you, but a "kit" doesn't
require even $400 in materials to equal them, even
if you are paying retail pricing.

So your condemnation of Bose applies to everybody else too? IMO folks like
Paradigm, Celestion and PSB were licking the crap out of DIY speakers a decade
ago. Indeed at a PSACS Meeting held at Bosch?Blaupunkt a decade ago where
memberes were encouraged to bring any DIY project in to be measured and
documented with the Blaupunkt B&K measurment gear (we had a poured concrete
3-way 'egg' shaped speaker and another dozen+ of speakers and a few amplifiers)
and a $300 pair of Celestion 6.5-inch 2 ways used as monitors in the lab
literally 'blew-away' any of the DIY speakers. Let me say that again ....
destroyed ann the DIY efforts.

Others have measured it. Typical of most HTIB setups, the bass
"module" is made out of LDF or plastic or simmilar and resonates
quite readily.

Let me ask this: who has measured this? I've heard such claims but have not
seen replicable confirmation. Indeed the only "measurements" of Bose
speakers I
can recall were made by ....me.

I don't know about the measurements, but the construction is well
documented as many people have pulled them apart to take a look.

Again; you said that Bose had 30-40% distortion at some unspecified output
level. I asked first "how do you know this?" and later "who has documented
this?"

But now you don't know? I'm guesisng that your comment was a guess. Faor
enough.

Of course, even Kef and Paradigm and Tannoy and so on use cheap
as posible materials in most anything other than their flagship
models. I'd certainly not use screws and plastic veneer and
the wires they use.

Why not? If it doesn't affect the sound why does it matter?

It depends. Some do - some do not. Many *do* suck at low frequencies.

Which ones "do"? Smaller cone drivers simply do not have the basket
geometry
and suspensions to allow increased displacement with "stroke."

As I said, A few do, but it's liiterally a handful. Most cost too
much, so moving to a larger driver makes sense. IMO, a 7-8 inch
is just right for most low frequency work in a "bookshelf" speaker.

Sure but it will have directivity near the crossover point that makes matching
difficult. This is why we don't see 8, 10 and 12-inch 2 way speakers anymore.