Harry Lavo wrote:
wrote in message ...
Harry Lavo wrote:

We aren't looking to determine differences, Bob.

You're the one who started this whole conversation by insisting that an
ABX test was inadequate. Well, the ONLY purpose of an ABX test is to
determine difference. If your argument is that an ABX test is not
adequate for determining something it was not designed to determine,
then you've been wasting our time.



It started because an ABX test was proposed as a means of making listening
decisions for audio equipment.

So it apparently started because you misread something, and then
decided to pick a fight about it. No one's ever suggested using ABX
tests to "make listening decisions" here. It's been proposed only as a
way to confirm impressions that components sound different. Stop
fighting the straw men, Harry. It doesn't help your cause.

The fact that *difference* is the wrong measure is just one of the problems
with this approach.

We're looking to evaluate
audio components sonic signatures and subjective shading of musical
reproduction. And there has been no confimation that ABX or a straight
AB
difference test can show up all the various shadings that show up in
longer-term listening evaluations.

There is no evidence that "various shadings" really do show up (rather
than simply being imagined by the listener) in longer-term listening
evaluations of components that cannot be distinguished in ABX tests.
You are once again assuming your conclusion.

The shadings can presume to be there, as they are heard by many people,
until proven otherwise.

Spoken like a true anti-empiricist. People who don't pick and choose
which science they wish to believe in will understand that things don't
exist just because people--even "many" people--claim they exist. Human
perception is not that simple.

And they can't be proven otherwise except through
something like a monadic control test. The "shadings" are subjective; it
requires a test that can determine if subjective perception is real or not
and that is by ratings among a large cross-section of audiophiles, with
statistical analysis applied.

Just to sum up here, it is your position that ABX tests are inadequate
because:

1) they do not measure things they are not designed to measure; and,

2) they cannot detect things we do not know exist.

Glad we've got that straight.

bob