On May 22, 11:14*am, Bret L wrote:
On May 22, 11:04*am, Boon wrote:
On May 22, 9:38*am, ScottW wrote:
On May 21, 9:46*pm, Boon wrote:
On May 21, 5:12*pm, Bret L wrote:
On May 21, 4:54*pm, Boon wrote:
On May 21, 3:02*pm, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote:
On May 21, 12:20*pm, Boon wrote:
On May 21, 12:16 am, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote:
Boon recommended an Ortofon.
How about a Denon hi-output MC? What other options do you feel works
well with this arm?
Hm. How about under $250?
Ortofon 2M Blue. It's $199. I've heard it on a couple of Rega arm/
tables now, and it's a great match.
But I must warn you that unless you know how to solder, you don't
deserve it.
Can I rivet instead?
((Riveting has always been for sissies. Anyone can grab a riveting gun
and rivet a feral cat to the hood of a car. Soldering takes a lot more
knowledge, especially when it comes to fusing bone to metal. Boon.))
*Doofuses both.
*Riveting actually is more of an art than soldering. I mean real
riveting, with a riveter and bucking bars. But it isn't how you join
electrical connections, usually. A cart install usually doesn't
involve soldering anyway, so this is a stupid comment in the first
place.
No, we're making fun of you, and you're way too stupid (and/or
autistic) to figure it out.
*My point is that there is a purpose to matching carts and arms that
involves the compliance of the cartridge, the mass of the tone arm,
and several other factors. Few seem to know anything about it anymore.
There used to be some good articles on it in hi fi magazines but since
the late 70s it has become a black art. Stereopile and the like do not
like procedure, rigor or science, so you won't find it there.
Yes, that's true. But if you actually had any recent experience with
this, you'd know that just about every modern arm can matched to just
about any modern cartridge. They do that on purpose so that there are
more options to the consumer.
LoL. * What a complete moron.
That explains why Phillips Rega setup honked at 30 hz.
For any lurkers interested in some facts and reality rather than Marc
Phillips, aka vinylignoramus, uninformed comments you can still find
useful information on the web.
Here's a table of cart specs showing the range of comliance is ~8 to
~30 x10e-6 cm/dyne.
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php
You should consult the cart manufacturers web site for current specs
of any cart you're considering.
Here's a decent explanation of the mechanics.
http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartrid...m_matching.htm
No rocket science but obviously way over Phillips ignorant approach to
vinyl playback.
Notice in the resonant frequency equation that headshell and hardware
is a factor.
I've got 3 shells that span a range of more than 2-1 in mass. *Here's
an Ortofon shellhttp://www.needledoctor.com/Ortofon-LH-2000-Headshell
weighing in at 12 grams. *Solid aluminum. *IIRC, the Sumiko shells are
even more.
My AT shell weighs under 6. * All these factors come into play in
matching an arm and a cart. * A small change in mass at the cart end
of the arm is a large change in mass at the counterbalance as well.
All these variables lead to the need for a decent test record to check
out resonance freq. *Something any knowledgeable vinylphile will own,
but IIRC, Marc has never bothered to acquire or learn how to use one.
Anyway, with a cart of known compliance, a person can use the test
record to determine resonant freq and then calculate the equivalent
mass of their arm setup.
Most manufacturers only provide the relatively useless low, medium,
high.
Phillips statement that all modern arms/carts are a resonable match is
simply ignorant. *He even pointed out earlier that some carts weight
are too great for the basic tonearms counterbalance so it would appear
that he has contradicted his own foolish claim even before he wrote
it.
It's nice that you're actually participating in an audio thread for
once, instead of one of your idiotic OT political posts. And some of
what you said above is true. (But bringing up the 30 Hz honk again
when we established it was your room and not some mismatch between the
compliance of the arm and the cartridge? That must be your autism
speaking.)
The problem, of course, is that you didn't understand what I said. The
simple fact is that with the proper tools, you can mate just about any
modern cartridge with any modern arm. That's where heavy
counterweights come in. You can also use headshells in this way. You
only really have to worry about gross mismatches when dealing with
older equipment or some of the more esoteric products out there. Shhh!
was talking about a Rega arm, and there aren't too many carts out
there that don't work with Rega arms. Even the newer Grados seem to
work just fine without humming.
*The hum issue with Grados had nothing to do with arms, but with
unshielded AC motors, as found on the AR and Linn. In the case of the
Linn it proved that ol' Tief was and is a huckster because at that
price point there was no excuse whatsoever.
Yes. And the newer Grados don't have this problem. That supports my
point that most of the cartridges and arms now sold are pretty much
compatible, because the market dictates it. Notice that the link Scott
supplied deals with older cartridges (which, IMO, shouldn't be used at
all) and older arms.
*As far as the use of counterweights and headshell mass differences,
you should have explained that up front. You chose not to and
maintained that "everything works with everything now" which is
insane.
Wrong. I said that most "modern" arm/carts are designed to work with
each other these days. The counterweight was already part of the
discussion.
You see, that's how normal conversations work. You say something, I
respond, you elaborate, I elaborate. I know you probably don't talk to
many people in the real world, but not everyone opens with a long,
boring treatise like you do.
*Given the insane pricing of tone arms and carts today vis-a-
vis build costs (and no, there are no large teams of college degreed
engineers that are needed for development on any of this stuff) the
optimization of these factors is crucial to getting better than Rheem
Califone performance from these high dollar setups.
So I'll throw the question out to both you and Scott...what currently
sold arms and carts will absolutely not work with each other? I'll
admit that there are probably some, but I'm thinking neither of you
know of any, and you're just relying upon what you learned back in
Electronics 101 in high school.