Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

"Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message
>> . net
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>> headphones.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it would be good to consider the technical differences
>>>> between the headphone jack on a piece of equipment that is designed
>>>> primarily for use with headphones, and those on a headphone amp,
>>>> which is after all a piece of equipment that is designed primarily
>>>> for use with headphones.

>> There are two different ways that headphone jacks are driven from the
>> circuitry in audio gear. In some cases there is a dedicated headphone
>> amplifier, whose quality may vary. If you get a good implementation
>> of this, then using an external amp could be a waste. One finds this
>> sort of thing in equipment that is designed to drive headphones as
>> the primary output, but one also finds it in components like
>> recorders and players that are used for audio production or home
>> multimedia or hifi.

> One of my pre-amps (Adcom 565) has a headphone jack. I also have a
> Creek OBH-11SE headphone amp. Where would you suggest I might get the
> better quality sound from a Sennheiser HD600?

Not having the schematic diagrams or actual equipment for either device at
my disposal, I have no serious advice. However, if you think that your
headphones don't play loud enough suit you, you should try turning up the
volume. I don't mean this as an insult, because I have become aware of the
fact that some people are fearful of turning up the volume beyond 12 or 1
o'clock. There often is life beyond 1 o'clock with lots of equipment.

If your volume control is at 5 o'clock or you hear gross distortion, then
you should find a place too hook your phones up that has more output. One
such place is the output of your power amp, and another would be the output
of some kind of booster amp. With either, ear damage or headphone damage is
a possibility.

Perhaps you don't like the basic tone quality of the HD600s. Then, your
options are equalization or simply getting different headphones.

>> In other cases the headphone is driven by some resistors tapped off
>> of output circuitry that is designed for other purposes. One
>> commonly finds this in receivers and integrated amplifiers, but also
>> sometimes in devices that have just line output jacks. In most
>> cases, you want to use an external headphone amp with headphone
>> jacks implemented with resistive taps.

> Most CD players have headphone jacks and they also offer level
> control and some gain. My Marantz ("Professional") 331 is one such
> player. How would you suggest I might get the better sound; driving
> amplifiers from its headphone jack or from one of its "fixed" line
> outs?

Please see my former comments.

Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

Volume is not a problem, in any way whatsoever, I can produce the entire
volume range from silence to more than too loud (without distortion) at
customary and normal settings . I don't have schematics of the preamp, CD
player(s) or the Creek headphone amp and even if I did I wouldn't be able to
interpret their significance to the issue at hand. Of course one can listen
to a bunch of recordings and then decide for yourself. However there could
well be situations not afforded for by the test comparisons. Therefore it is
advantageous to be profit from the experience of others (hence my question).
I conclude that just as is the case with many other things in life, one will
never know.

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message
> >> . net
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>>> headphones.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe it would be good to consider the technical differences
> >>>> between the headphone jack on a piece of equipment that is designed
> >>>> primarily for use with headphones, and those on a headphone amp,
> >>>> which is after all a piece of equipment that is designed primarily
> >>>> for use with headphones.
>
> >> There are two different ways that headphone jacks are driven from the
> >> circuitry in audio gear. In some cases there is a dedicated headphone
> >> amplifier, whose quality may vary. If you get a good implementation
> >> of this, then using an external amp could be a waste. One finds this
> >> sort of thing in equipment that is designed to drive headphones as
> >> the primary output, but one also finds it in components like
> >> recorders and players that are used for audio production or home
> >> multimedia or hifi.
>
> > One of my pre-amps (Adcom 565) has a headphone jack. I also have a
> > Creek OBH-11SE headphone amp. Where would you suggest I might get the
> > better quality sound from a Sennheiser HD600?
>
> Not having the schematic diagrams or actual equipment for either device at
> my disposal, I have no serious advice. However, if you think that your
> headphones don't play loud enough suit you, you should try turning up the
> volume. I don't mean this as an insult, because I have become aware of the
> fact that some people are fearful of turning up the volume beyond 12 or 1
> o'clock. There often is life beyond 1 o'clock with lots of equipment.
>
> If your volume control is at 5 o'clock or you hear gross distortion, then
> you should find a place too hook your phones up that has more output. One
> such place is the output of your power amp, and another would be the
output
> of some kind of booster amp. With either, ear damage or headphone damage
is
> a possibility.
>
> Perhaps you don't like the basic tone quality of the HD600s. Then, your
> options are equalization or simply getting different headphones.
>
> >> In other cases the headphone is driven by some resistors tapped off
> >> of output circuitry that is designed for other purposes. One
> >> commonly finds this in receivers and integrated amplifiers, but also
> >> sometimes in devices that have just line output jacks. In most
> >> cases, you want to use an external headphone amp with headphone
> >> jacks implemented with resistive taps.
>
> > Most CD players have headphone jacks and they also offer level
> > control and some gain. My Marantz ("Professional") 331 is one such
> > player. How would you suggest I might get the better sound; driving
> > amplifiers from its headphone jack or from one of its "fixed" line
> > outs?
>
> Please see my former comments.
>
>
>
>

Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

"Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message
et

> Volume is not a problem, in any way whatsoever, I can produce the
> entire volume range from silence to more than too loud (without
> distortion) at customary and normal settings . I don't have
> schematics of the preamp, CD player(s) or the Creek headphone amp and
> even if I did I wouldn't be able to interpret their significance to
> the issue at hand.

....well you asked me....

> Of course one can listen to a bunch of recordings
> and then decide for yourself.

Now there's an idea.

My understanding is that the way this issue often comes up is that someone
says something like: I'm going to buy some HD580 phones, and someone else
says: Well if you do that, you're going to have to buy a good headphone
amp. I don't have any problem with the suggestion that there may be an
exposure to wanting a headphone amp for a number of technical and
non-technical reasons. But I do have a problem with stating it as a global
requirement.

Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message
> et
>
> > Volume is not a problem, in any way whatsoever, I can produce the
> > entire volume range from silence to more than too loud (without
> > distortion) at customary and normal settings . I don't have
> > schematics of the preamp, CD player(s) or the Creek headphone amp and
> > even if I did I wouldn't be able to interpret their significance to
> > the issue at hand.
>
> ...well you asked me....
>
> > Of course one can listen to a bunch of recordings
> > and then decide for yourself.
>
> Now there's an idea.
>
> My understanding is that the way this issue often comes up is that someone
> says something like: I'm going to buy some HD580 phones, and someone else
> says: Well if you do that, you're going to have to buy a good headphone
> amp. I don't have any problem with the suggestion that there may be an
> exposure to wanting a headphone amp for a number of technical and
> non-technical reasons. But I do have a problem with stating it as a global
> requirement.
>
All of the above could well be the case, however for the cost of a 580 or
600 *plus* a more durable headphone cable *AND* a good headphone amp (should
you encounter its need) I recommend buying the Stax SRS-3030 Classic System
II (from audiocubes.com) for both lower cost and far better sound.

Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

"Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message
> > et
> >
> > > Volume is not a problem, in any way whatsoever, I can produce the
> > > entire volume range from silence to more than too loud (without
> > > distortion) at customary and normal settings . I don't have
> > > schematics of the preamp, CD player(s) or the Creek headphone amp and
> > > even if I did I wouldn't be able to interpret their significance to
> > > the issue at hand.
> >
> > ...well you asked me....
> >
> > > Of course one can listen to a bunch of recordings
> > > and then decide for yourself.
> >
> > Now there's an idea.
> >
> > My understanding is that the way this issue often comes up is that
someone
> > says something like: I'm going to buy some HD580 phones, and someone
else
> > says: Well if you do that, you're going to have to buy a good headphone
> > amp. I don't have any problem with the suggestion that there may be an
> > exposure to wanting a headphone amp for a number of technical and
> > non-technical reasons. But I do have a problem with stating it as a
global
> > requirement.
> >
> All of the above could well be the case, however for the cost of a 580 or
> 600 *plus* a more durable headphone cable *AND* a good headphone amp
(should
> you encounter its need) I recommend buying the Stax SRS-3030 Classic
System
> II (from audiocubes.com) for both lower cost and far better sound.

I did a little research and came up with the following:

Radio Shack part number 330-1109 3-Way Headphone Volume Booster. This
device runs off of 2 AA cells and provides 3 amplifier headphone jacks. I
ran some measurements on it and find that it has approximately 6 dB gain,
0.003% THD @ 1 KHz full output, approximately 90 dB SNR and frequency
response 20-20 KHz +0, - 0.3 dB. It sells for the princely sum of $22.95.

HD 580s routinely sell for $199, and can often be had for at least $25 less
than that. I've had my HD580s for a year and a half, use them several hours
daily and the headphone cable is still going strong. If you buy wisely, and
need more output than the headphone jack at hand will provide, you can get
the 580s, the 330-1109, and change from $200 (which is much less than $779).

http://www.audiocubes.com/product_in...roducts_id=129

Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> I did a little research and came up with the following:
>
> Radio Shack part number 330-1109 3-Way Headphone Volume Booster. This
> device runs off of 2 AA cells and provides 3 amplifier headphone jacks. I
> ran some measurements on it and find that it has approximately 6 dB gain,
> 0.003% THD @ 1 KHz full output, approximately 90 dB SNR and frequency
> response 20-20 KHz +0, - 0.3 dB. It sells for the princely sum of $22.95.
>

IME the best thing concerning the purchase of any Radio Shack branded
product is its no questions asked money back guarantee. (However with the
cost of gas these days it may not turn out to be a good thing at all.)

Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

"Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message


> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I did a little research and came up with the following:

>> Radio Shack part number 330-1109 3-Way Headphone Volume Booster. This
>> device runs off of 2 AA cells and provides 3 amplifier headphone
>> jacks. I ran some measurements on it and find that it has
>> approximately 6 dB gain,
>> 0.003% THD @ 1 KHz full output, approximately 90 dB SNR and frequency
>> response 20-20 KHz +0, - 0.3 dB. It sells for the princely sum of
>> $22.95.


> IME the best thing concerning the purchase of any Radio Shack branded
> product is its no questions asked money back guarantee. (However with
> the cost of gas these days it may not turn out to be a good thing at
> all.)

If you actually heard the 330-1109, which appears to be a black-cased clone
of a product known as the "Boostaroo", you might give it a little more
credit than that. I'm thinking that a couple of dowel-based battery
simulators could mate it to a 6 volt DC wall wart for something with even
more punch.

BTW, RS does mail order.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...gory%5Fname=&p
roduct%5Fid=33%2D1109

In my ongoing search for quality personal listening devices, I just picked
up a pair of Shure E2's which I am investigating as an alternative to Sony
MDR-EX-70/71 earbuds.

MDR EX-71 are 16 ohms with 100 dB/mW sensitivity. Strong bass and strong,
rough treble but tolerable to my ears with smooth source material. Some
would say too just too much treble. Street price $40-50

Shure E2 are 16 ohms with 105 dB/mW sensitivity. Less bass and treble, but
smoother-sounding to my ears. Street price $80-90

Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> BTW, RS does mail order.
>
>
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...gory%5Fname=&p

How about refunding of shipping charges (forward and reverse)? (The Sony
parts dept. does!)
In listening to a batch of recordings for evaluation of headphones/headphone
amps, there is a good possibility that a unforeseen (untested) situation
will arise e.g.; all ranges of male a female (solo) voices, choruses, organ,
etc. etc. Additionally you will get no sense whatsoever regarding long term
satisfaction with *any* snap judgment. As for the durability of the
Sennheiser cords, even they know that their product has a serious problem
and will only allow for one cord during the one year warranty period. (I
already have mine.) Reports of broken Sennheiser headphone cords were and
remain commonplace.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...2399727&rnum=4

My Sennheiser cord became intermittent with 6 months. I suppose you were
extremely lucky with yours.

As for the cost of a good Sennheiser set-up from Headroom: the 600 is $279,
a Creek OB-11SE ($349) and a Cardas cord which eliminates the cord problem
only at the plug end, $150, grand total, $778. If you wish to get the 580
instead, figure a $80 saving. IMO the Stax 3030 system being available for
only a single buck more, one would be foolish to go the Sennheiser route.
Regardless of cost, and more importantly how would you compare fit comfort
and sound quality?

Amp for Sennheiser 580s?
 

"Norman Schwartz" > wrote in message


> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>> BTW, RS does mail order.

>
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...gory%5Fname=&p

> How about refunding of shipping charges (forward and reverse)? (The
> Sony parts dept. does!)

For Sony's prices they'd better...

> In listening to a batch of recordings for evaluation of
> headphones/headphone amps, there is a good possibility that a
> unforeseen (untested) situation will arise e.g.; all ranges of male
> a female (solo) voices, choruses, organ, etc. etc.

Given that you've not tested the recommend alternative at all, that would be
your problem not mine.

> Additionally you
> will get no sense whatsoever regarding long term satisfaction with
> *any* snap judgment.

Given that you've not tested the recommend alternative at all, that would be
your problem not mine.

> As for the durability of the Sennheiser cords,
> even they know that their product has a serious problem and will only
> allow for one cord during the one year warranty period. (I already
> have mine.) Reports of broken Sennheiser headphone cords were and
> remain commonplace.
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...=513c3a2bd2399
727&rnum=4

So what? Last time I looked replacements are under $20 at the Sennheiser web
site. The replacement procedure is plug and play. Now let's look at the cost
of replacing the cords on competitive Sony headphones, or for that matter,
headphones from just about anybody else.

I'm sure that there are lots of people who have abused their equipment and
don't want to take responsibility for the consequences. I broke my 580s
early on, but I admit it, I stepped on them. It cost me under $50 to fix
them, and that was that.

> My Sennheiser cord became intermittent with 6 months. I suppose you
> were extremely lucky with yours.

So what? Lat time I looked, replacements were under $20 at the Sennheiser
web site. The replacement procedure is plug and play.

> As for the cost of a good Sennheiser set-up from Headroom: the 600 is
> $279,

If you're inclined to waste your money like that when you can get 580s some
place else for nearly $100 less.

>a Creek OB-11SE ($349)

Unnecessary,

> and a Cardas cord which eliminates the
> cord problem only at the plug end, $150,

Unnecessary, if you need a spare on hand, get one from the Sennheiser web
site cheap.

> grand total, $778.

Hey, perchance you were manager of $900 hammer for the Navy? This must be
how they did it!

> If you wish to get the 580 instead, figure a $80 saving.

If you want to use your brain, figure a $600 saving.

> IMO the Stax 3030
> system being available for only a single buck more, one would be
> foolish to go the Sennheiser route.

....if you buy this claim, I've got a bridge across the Detroit river I'd
like to sell you...

> Regardless of cost, and more
> importantly how would you compare fit comfort and sound quality?

First thing I did is look at the facts and dismiss the bogus logic and
accounting.