Advice wanted on 24tk HD recorder....

[Ron Charles]

I recently have been assigned to record several concerts live and could use
some advice from those who one either a Mackie, Alesis, Tascam, or Fostex HD
multitrack recorder.

I will be feeding analog signal via a reasonable good English made 24 strip
analog mixer, and will be using an assortment of affordable outboard tube
preamps (dbx, focusrite, aphex, presonus) and compressors on the most
important channels.

I seem to find that for $1450 USD the Mackie MDR24/96 seems to be a good
value, and it seems I both sync to SMPTE and also can be used to send files
faily easily into our Digi002 for post and mixing.

The HDR24/96 is out of our budget, and so is the Tascam, but should I still
consider the Alesis or the Fostex in the same general price area???

Any opinions about the MDR24/96????

RON CHARLES

[Harvey Gerst]

"Ron Charles" > wrote:

>I recently have been assigned to record several concerts live and could use
>some advice from those who one either a Mackie, Alesis, Tascam, or Fostex HD
>multitrack recorder.
>
>I will be feeding analog signal via a reasonable good English made 24 strip
>analog mixer, and will be using an assortment of affordable outboard tube
>preamps (dbx, focusrite, aphex, presonus) and compressors on the most
>important channels.
>
>I seem to find that for $1450 USD the Mackie MDR24/96 seems to be a good
>value, and it seems I both sync to SMPTE and also can be used to send files
>faily easily into our Digi002 for post and mixing.
>
>The HDR24/96 is out of our budget, and so is the Tascam, but should I still
>consider the Alesis or the Fostex in the same general price area???
>
>Any opinions about the MDR24/96????

We have two and will probably buy a third unit. Modded to HDRs, and they work
like a champ. They are sensitive to heat (one of them anyway), but haven't lost
any takes during the time we've had them.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I seem to find that for $1450 USD the Mackie MDR24/96 seems to be a good
> value, and it seems I both sync to SMPTE and also can be used to send files
> faily easily into our Digi002 for post and mixing.
>
> The HDR24/96 is out of our budget, and so is the Tascam, but should I still
> consider the Alesis or the Fostex in the same general price area???

Each one has its fans. Fostex has been doing hard disk recorders
longer than anyone (excpet maybe Akai) but they change models every
fifteen minutes and have never translated a manual into usable
English.

I've had a Mackie MDR24/96 for over 2 years and it's been very
reliable and sounds good. They hit a low price of around $1200 a few
months back but once most dealers ran out of stock (Mackie
discontinued manufacture in September 2002) the price is creeping back
up again. Still, if you can get one for $1450 it's a heck of a lot of
capability for the price. Be aware, though, that what you get is what
you're going to have to live with. Mackie will still offer technical
support and repairs on the MDR, but unless an update to the HDR (which
is still in production for the forseeable future) is also directly
applicable to the MDR, there probably won't be any other (at least
factory supplied or authorized) updates to the MDR.

It doesn't really need anything, but you know people want it to be all
sorts of stuff that it isn't.

When budgeting for one (any one) of these machines, don't forget the
cost of cables. The Alesis has 1/4" phone jacks for all the inputs and
outputs so cables and snakes are easy to buy and aren't very
expensive. The others use 25-pin D-subminiature connectors, 8 channels
per connector, and those cables are a little harder to find on the
shelf and are usually more expensive per connection than those with
more common plugs. You can easily spend $300 for a set of input and
output cables if you buy then new off the rack, though they
occasionally show up for sale at eBay auctions for about half the new
price.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Ron Charles]

Now that I have decided to go with Mackie..

I have just a few more quick questions regarding the difference between the
$1450 discontinued MDR and the less expensive (but perhaps more full
featured???) $1300 new SDR.....

1) Is the SDR24/96 in any way more or less high quality & full featured
than the MDR24/96??

2) Does the SDR sync to SMPTE as well as the MDR???

3) Is it equally easy to transfer trax of the highest quality into ProTools
Digi002 for mixing with the SDR and the MDR???

4a) Could I use my Digi002 console's 8 channels of ADAT optical I/O to send
a sub-mix to either the SDR or MDR during live recording,

4b) and if yes to the above, can I select these 8 channels to go directly to
the SDR's and/or MDR's digital recording inputs while sending 16 other
channels from an adjacent analog mixer to the unit's analog inputs for
recording at the same time???

Thanks for your help,

RON CHARLES


"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1057366258k@trad...
>
> In article > writes:
>
> > I seem to find that for $1450 USD the Mackie MDR24/96 seems to be a good
> > value, and it seems I both sync to SMPTE and also can be used to send
files
> > faily easily into our Digi002 for post and mixing.
> >
> > The HDR24/96 is out of our budget, and so is the Tascam, but should I
still
> > consider the Alesis or the Fostex in the same general price area???
>
> Each one has its fans. Fostex has been doing hard disk recorders
> longer than anyone (excpet maybe Akai) but they change models every
> fifteen minutes and have never translated a manual into usable
> English.
>
> I've had a Mackie MDR24/96 for over 2 years and it's been very
> reliable and sounds good. They hit a low price of around $1200 a few
> months back but once most dealers ran out of stock (Mackie
> discontinued manufacture in September 2002) the price is creeping back
> up again. Still, if you can get one for $1450 it's a heck of a lot of
> capability for the price. Be aware, though, that what you get is what
> you're going to have to live with. Mackie will still offer technical
> support and repairs on the MDR, but unless an update to the HDR (which
> is still in production for the forseeable future) is also directly
> applicable to the MDR, there probably won't be any other (at least
> factory supplied or authorized) updates to the MDR.
>
> It doesn't really need anything, but you know people want it to be all
> sorts of stuff that it isn't.
>
> When budgeting for one (any one) of these machines, don't forget the
> cost of cables. The Alesis has 1/4" phone jacks for all the inputs and
> outputs so cables and snakes are easy to buy and aren't very
> expensive. The others use 25-pin D-subminiature connectors, 8 channels
> per connector, and those cables are a little harder to find on the
> shelf and are usually more expensive per connection than those with
> more common plugs. You can easily spend $300 for a set of input and
> output cables if you buy then new off the rack, though they
> occasionally show up for sale at eBay auctions for about half the new
> price.
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[John L Rice]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1057366258k@trad...

> When budgeting for one (any one) of these machines, don't forget the
> cost of cables. The Alesis has 1/4" phone jacks for all the inputs and
> outputs so cables and snakes are easy to buy and aren't very
> expensive. The others use 25-pin D-subminiature connectors, 8 channels
> per connector, and those cables are a little harder to find on the
> shelf and are usually more expensive per connection than those with
> more common plugs. You can easily spend $300 for a set of input and
> output cables if you buy then new off the rack, though they
> occasionally show up for sale at eBay auctions for about half the new
> price.

All of the Fostex units that offer the balanced I/O option use 25 pin
D-subminiature connectors except the D2424LV which uses ¼" jacks just like
the Alesis HD unit.

I know, it is hard to keep up with the different Fostex models.

John L Rice

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I have just a few more quick questions regarding the difference between the
> $1450 discontinued MDR and the less expensive (but perhaps more full
> featured???) $1300 new SDR.....
>
> 1) Is the SDR24/96 in any way more or less high quality & full featured
> than the MDR24/96??

Yes and no. First off, understand that while the HDR and MDR are like
two peas in a pod, the SDR is completely different. It was developed
by a different team (Sydec, which was a Mackie company for about a
year but is no longer owned by Mackie), and has completely different
insides. Different A/D and D/A converters which, in my opinion after a
bit of listening, don't sound as good at 48 kHz as those in the MDR.
The front panel display is smaller (two lines vs. 4 lines) so it takes
more learning to find your way around the additional functions.

On the other hand, there isn't THAT big a difference in sound (which
is pretty much made up by running the SDR at 96 kHz) and some of the
features that the SDR has that the MDR doesn't (and never will) are
pretty nice. I particularly like the flexible input routing and
patching. The MDR is one input to one track, only, better suited for
either direct-to-track recording or using it with a console.

> 2) Does the SDR sync to SMPTE as well as the MDR???

As far as I can tell, yes. Sync works differently on the two though,
and if you have a really bad time code source the SDR probably has the
edge here. The MDR finds the starting point from the incoming time
code and starts running (on its own clock or incoming external clock)
from then on. It then ignores the time code coming in as far as a
timing reference, but it monitors the time code. If the recorder's
time and the time code get too far apart, the recorder stops. The SDR
can operate in this mode or it can operate in a mode where the word
clock for the recorder is derived from the incoming time code. If
you're synchronizing it to tape, for example, you can slow down the
tape and the SDR playback will slow down to follow it. On the MDR,
they'll just further and further apart until the MDR playback stops.

> 3) Is it equally easy to transfer trax of the highest quality into ProTools
> Digi002 for mixing with the SDR and the MDR???

To transfer tracks "of the highest quality" you transfer them as audio
files. I could write a paper on this, but the thing you need to know
is that other than the obvious solution of moving the removable disk
drive with the project on it over to your DAW (which a perfectly
sensible solution if you do it smart) the two recorders provide
different file transfer capability. The MDR has an FTP file server
built in so you can connect it via an Ethernet cable to your computer
and use an FTP client to pull files from the MDR's disk drive to the
computer's. The SDR doesn't have an Ethernet port, but it has a USB
port. Mackie doesn't provide a driver for its USB mass storage
emulation, so it depends on the computer's operating system. Windows
XP and 2000 will do it, as will Mac OS9 (and probably OSX) but Win98
only recognizes that you've connected a USB device that it doesn't
recognize and invites you to install the driver (which you ain't got
and will never get).

Understand that each time you press the Record and Stop buttons, you
create a new file, so if you're doing a typical tracking session you
have a ****load of files to transfer and put in to the right place.
Fortunately the SDR and the MDR with the latest software store the
audio as time stamped broadcast WAV files which you can import into a
DAW that supports them (ProTools does) in their correct time position.
Still it's a real pain in the butt. Mackie offers a $300 upgrade for
the HDR (but not the SDR or MDR) that does a conversion that allows
you to open a project in ProTools, and the kit includes a Firewire
case with a drive bay that mates with the Mackie removable drive, so
you can just "plug in" your projects. But unless you decide to spring
for an HDR, you can't get this. No good reason why they can't make it
work on the MDR, just a marketing decision.

> 4a) Could I use my Digi002 console's 8 channels of ADAT optical I/O to send
> a sub-mix to either the SDR or MDR during live recording,

In theory, yes, but I don't know how you'd do that in ProTools. You
can mix analog and ADAT inputs on a channel-by-channel basis on the
SDR. On the HDR, you'd need to replace one of the analog I/O cards
with an ADAT Optical I/O card on 8 channels. Another $99.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[-sTu-]

I would consider a MOTU 24i/o (that is the direction I am thinking about
going). Send it straight to the computer at 24/96. You want it to end up
there anyways.

--
-sTu-

....and I'll never go to Sacramento again.
- Nick (Soulbelly) of RMMP

"Ron Charles" > wrote in message
...
> I recently have been assigned to record several concerts live and could
use
> some advice from those who one either a Mackie, Alesis, Tascam, or Fostex
HD
> multitrack recorder.
>
> I will be feeding analog signal via a reasonable good English made 24
strip
> analog mixer, and will be using an assortment of affordable outboard tube
> preamps (dbx, focusrite, aphex, presonus) and compressors on the most
> important channels.
>
> I seem to find that for $1450 USD the Mackie MDR24/96 seems to be a good
> value, and it seems I both sync to SMPTE and also can be used to send
files
> faily easily into our Digi002 for post and mixing.
>
> The HDR24/96 is out of our budget, and so is the Tascam, but should I
still
> consider the Alesis or the Fostex in the same general price area???
>
> Any opinions about the MDR24/96????
>
> RON CHARLES
>
>
>

[-sTu-]

The 24 I/O has 24 ins and outs. You can still use your mixer.


--
-sTu-

....and I'll never go to Sacramento again.
- Nick (Soulbelly) of RMMP

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1057491241k@trad...
>
> In article >
writes:
>
> > I would consider a MOTU 24i/o (that is the direction I am thinking about
> > going). Send it straight to the computer at 24/96. You want it to end up
> > there anyways.
>
> Maybe you do, but I don't, and there are still a few of us around who
> prefer to do our mixing with a mixer.
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers - )