Re: Why "accuracy"? [Archive]

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 10th 07, 07:49 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>>
>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Oh, so by "accuracy" you mean to convey something as blunt as not
>>> substituting strings for horns. Of course we can all agree with that.
>>>
>>>> Same thing....
>>>
>>> Maybe to you....
>>>
>>
>> George. Don't you remember the good old days when violins
>> used on recording sessions were fitted with horns, rather like
>> those found on old phonographs?
>>
>> I once did an "acoustic recording" straight to wax, just as they
>> used to do in the 20s. I copied the studio layout from the famous
>> RCA photograph.
>>
>> The recording machine had two horns, set 180 degrees apart,
>> one for the vocal one for the orchestra. You controlled the
>> record level and balance by carefully sliding a piece of angora
>> wool in the mouths of the recording horns. That may well be
>> the origin of the word "pad" (attenuator)
>>
>> Now, that's "accuracy" :-)
>
> I wonder if George can bring himself to admit why people stopped making
> recordings by purely mechanical means.

For me, it was a fascinating part of the recording arts learning
process. I wanted to hear an acoustic session vintage 1926 as
it had been heard in the studio.

Recording, like any other profession is not something one
picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.You
need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
repertoire well.

If it were not for your condescending "been there/done that",
Jack of All Trades approach Arny, you could be turning out
better work than your current horrendous offerings. Most first
year trainees leave you miles behind. A recording arts
student is taught the skills of listening and analysis. These take
time to acquire, but are probably the best investment one
could ever make if you really want to be taken seriously as
a recording engineer.

> Why people stopped using vinyl and tubes in the mainstream.

Who cares about mainstream:-) Why are you so concerned
with the lowest common denominator?

One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
the other way. In this part of the world at least, you can buy
almost any SS system at discount. There seems to be quite a
long lead time for tube amps, for which people are willing to
pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

You seem to move in down-market, impecunious circles, Arny

> Hint: it had a lot to do with a desire for greater sonic accuracy.

Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they
enjoy the sound which such equipment produces in their
particular listening environment, and b) it suits their budget.
It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make
their decisions.

Quite a large segment of the population here in Scandinavia
has a considerable amount of disposable income. These people,
according to a Swedish dealer of my acquaintance, buy systems
with Tannoy Royal Westminster or B+W Nautilus speakers, an
SME turntable, a CD player and a tube amp, for the reasons I
list in the paragraph above.

Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

Iain

Mr.T

September 10th 07, 09:04 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
> One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)

Yes, their term only.

> from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
> the other way.

Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
seventies did they!!!!
And of course the only ones left are people like you who like the so called
"euphonic distortions". After paying mega dollars, the only reason they
would go the other way now is bankruptcy :-)

>In this part of the world at least, you can buy
> almost any SS system at discount. There seems to be quite a
> long lead time for tube amps, for which people are willing to
> pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

That little demand for valve amps means no mass production cost savings!

> Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they
> enjoy the sound which such equipment produces in their
> particular listening environment, and b) it suits their budget.
> It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make
> their decisions.

The cost of valve amps hasn't "suited" anyones budget for years. Of course
some will always pay a premium to be diferent however.

> Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
> people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
> and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

And since I'm sure we all do that, why the need for argument?

MrT.

Arny Krueger

September 10th 07, 01:05 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...

> Recording, like any other profession is not something one
> picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.

Been there, done that.

>You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
> music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
> repertoire well.

Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not everybody
who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.

> If it were not for your condescending "been there/done that",
> Jack of All Trades approach Arny, you could be turning out
> better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work. Given your outdated, narrow views and
history of endless bad faith, I hope to keep it that way in the interest of
minimizing the ignorant spew that foist off on Usenet.

> Most first
> year trainees leave you miles behind. A recording arts
> student is taught the skills of listening and analysis. These take
> time to acquire, but are probably the best investment one
> could ever make if you really want to be taken seriously as
> a recording engineer.

That would be your second mistake, Iain. I have no interest in being taken
seriously as a recording engineer. Given my education and most of my
professional career, being a mere recording engineer is a gigantic step
down, both professionally and economically. I record live performances of
mostly amateurs out of a sense of service and charity and for fun.

>> Why people stopped using vinyl and tubes in the mainstream.
>
> Who cares about mainstream:-) Why are you so concerned
> with the lowest common denominator?

Contrary to your outdated beliefs Iain, the mainstream is not about the
lowest common denominator.

> One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
> from an SS to a tube system.

In fact Iain, almost nobody ever does that any more.

The tube audio system replacement market was very strong in the late 1960s,
but by the mid-late-1970s the audio market, whether low end or high end, was
primarily solid state which it remains to this day.

You really need to get out more. Almost every music system that is bought
today is either the purchaser's first music system, and solid state , or it
is a replacement music system, and it replaces an existing solid state music
system.

Arny Krueger

September 10th 07, 01:05 PM

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 07:48 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>
>> Recording, like any other profession is not something one
>> picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.
>
> Been there, done that.

There you go again:-)
>
>>You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
>> music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
>> repertoire well.
>
> Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not
> everybody who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.

Indeed. But the above still applies, just as in the same way that
not all pianists play classical music. But you will find, that most
of the best jazz players for example have a strong classical
technique. Listen to Bach. Was he not the King of Jazz?
I worked a couple of times with the American clarinet legend
Benny Goodman. He used to warm up on "The Forty Eight"

The same goes for recording. A classical background
gives one skills in balance and acoustic perspective (which
are not easily acquired in pop music due to the way in which
it is put together) that can be carried forward into other areas
of recording. Versatility is the keynote.

> I have no interest in being taken seriously as a
> recording engineer.

There is no fear of that:-)

> Given my education and most of my
> professional career,

You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
world they have not been awarded for many many years.
It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.

I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)

> being a mere recording engineer is a gigantic step
> down, both professionally and economically.

By economically do you mean "financially"?
I am pretty sure, leaving recording aside for the moment,
that someone doing transcription at a professional level
would invoice more in an hour than a car factory employer,
or computer repair main (or whatever you are/were)
would earn in a day:-) And as for job satisfaction.....

But, wait a minute, I recall not to long ago a claim by you,
in some strange twisted logic, that you had earned enough money
for your church to warrant the title "professional recording
engineer". You don't meet the criterion in any sense.

>> If it were not for your condescending "been there/done that",
>> Jack of All Trades approach Arny, you could be turning out
>> better work than your current horrendous offerings.
>
> Iain, you know nothing about my work.

You are almost certainly deluding yourself, Arny, if you
think that I, or George, or anyone else for that matter gives
a sixpence for your "work".

> Given your outdated, narrow views
> and history of endless bad faith, I hope to keep it that way in the
> interest of minimizing the ignorant spew that foist off on Usenet.

I was sent some mp3 clips of a choir which you have
recorded. Quite dreadful! A colleague, who teaches
recording arts at conservatory level played a track
to his students. At the end, there was a very long
silence. Most had sickly smiles on their faces. They
did not know whether to laugh or cry! Then one young lady,
a cellist, burst into tears and ran out of the auditorium. She told
her fellow students later that she thought the recording was some
kind of cruel sacrilegious joke.

> I record live performances of mostly amateurs out of a sense of service
> and charity and for fun.

Fun?? You make gifted musicians cry!

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 07:53 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> i.fi...
>
>>> One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
>>
>> Yes, their term only.
>>
>>> from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
>>> the other way.
>>
>> Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
>> seventies did they!!!!
>
> Iain, clearly lives in an alternative universe, doesn't he?
>
Once again, comprehension let's you down badly, Arny.
I am referring to current trends in purchasing.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 08:21 AM

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>> One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
>
> Yes, their term only.
>
>> from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
>> the other way.
>
> Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
> seventies did they!!!!
> And of course the only ones left are people like you who like the so
> called
> "euphonic distortions". After paying mega dollars, the only reason they
> would go the other way now is bankruptcy :-)

I have never paid "mega dollars for anything" I build my own
valve amplifiers, and as an audio professional can get speakers,
turntables, CD players, SS amps etc on long or permanent loan.
I can also buy at professional discount, without sales tax.
In addition, the company of which I am a shareholder owns a
great deal of professional equipment.
>
>>In this part of the world at least, you can buy
>> almost any SS system at discount. There seems to be quite a
>> long lead time for tube amps, for which people are willing to
>> pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?
>
> That little demand for valve amps means no mass production cost savings!
>
>> Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they
>> enjoy the sound which such equipment produces in their
>> particular listening environment, and b) it suits their budget.
>> It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make
>> their decisions.
>
> The cost of valve amps hasn't "suited" anyones budget for years. Of course
> some will always pay a premium to be diferent however.

The gentleman I had in miond equated it to going to the opera.
You can either pay a very small sum, and sit up in the gods, or
shell out for a good seat. We all make our choice according to
our standards and requirements.
>
>> Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
>> people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
>> and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.
>
> And since I'm sure we all do that, why the need for argument?
>

I wasn't aware this was an argument. I was taking part in a
discussion. I am happy to see Mr T that you have managed
a whole post without having to resort to invective. Well done.

Iain

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 12th 07, 08:34 AM

On Sep 12, 1:48 am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

> Fun?? You make gifted musicians cry!

I notice that you still refuse to take up good old insane Arns'
challenge:

Get rid of all of your equipment, forget about all of your experience,
go to a crummy hall with a lot of bad musicians and see if you can
make a recording as good as the ones made by good old insane Arns.

Clyde Slick

September 12th 07, 09:16 AM

On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>

> >> better work than your current horrendous offerings.
>
> > Iain, you know nothing about my work.
>

why is that, Arny?

> > I record live performances of mostly amateurs

oh, that's why.

roughplanet

September 12th 07, 09:39 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
...

>>> One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)

>> Yes, their term only.

>>> from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
>>> the other way.

>> Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
>> seventies did they!!!!
>> And of course the only ones left are people like you who like the so
>> called "euphonic distortions". After paying mega dollars, the only reason
>> they
>> would go the other way now is bankruptcy :-)

> I have never paid "mega dollars for anything" I build my own
> valve amplifiers, and as an audio professional can get speakers,
> turntables, CD players, SS amps etc on long or permanent loan.
> I can also buy at professional discount, without sales tax.
> In addition, the company of which I am a shareholder owns a
> great deal of professional equipment.

>>>In this part of the world at least, you can buy almost any SS system at
>>>discount. >>>There seems to be quite a long lead time for tube amps, for
>>>which people are willing to
>>> pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

>> That little demand for valve amps means no mass production cost savings!

>>> Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they enjoy the
>>> sound which such equipment produces in their particular listening
>>> environment, and b) it suits their budget.
>>> It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make their
>>> decisions.

>> The cost of valve amps hasn't "suited" anyones budget for years. Of
>> course
>> some will always pay a premium to be diferent however.

> The gentleman I had in mind equated it to going to the opera.
> You can either pay a very small sum, and sit up in the gods, or
> shell out for a good seat. We all make our choice according to
> our standards and requirements.

>>> Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
>>> people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
>>> and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

>> And since I'm sure we all do that, why the need for argument?

> I wasn't aware this was an argument. I was taking part in a
> discussion. I am happy to see Mr T that you have managed
> a whole post without having to resort to invective. Well done.

But still limits his involvement to the occassional snipe from the sidelines
:-).

ruff

roughplanet

September 12th 07, 09:41 AM

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message

>> >> better work than your current horrendous offerings.

>> > Iain, you know nothing about my work.

> why is that, Arny?

>> > I record live performances of mostly amateurs

> oh, that's why.

Badly.

George M. Middius

September 12th 07, 11:43 AM

Iain Churches said:

> > Given my education and most of my
> > professional career,

> You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
> world they have not been awarded for many many years.
> It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
> leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.
>
> I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)

Krooger does not now have a job in the recording business or in the audio
industry, nor has he ever had one. What he calls his "career" began as a
sales clerk in Radio Shack and progressed through assistant engineer at
Chrysler, installer of large computer systems, and (now) "flogger" of
workaday homebrew PCs.

Also, by his own admission, Krooger's "career" consists of his Usenet
posts. If you Google the phrase "usenet career", you'll get some insight
into Krooger's kareer.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 12:49 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> i.fi...
>>
>>>> One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
>>>
>>> Yes, their term only.
>>>
>>>> from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
>>>> the other way.

>>> Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
>>> seventies did they!!!!

>> Iain, clearly lives in an alternative universe, doesn't he?

> Once again, comprehension let's you down badly, Arny.
> I am referring to current trends in purchasing.

Stop externalizing, Iain. You've missed the point again. The past trend in
purchasing was to scrap tubes for solid state. That took tubed audio gear
from total dominance down to a tiny niche. That tiny niche of remaining
tubed equipment is so miniscule that it could double, triple, probably even
grow by 10 times, and still have no discernable impact on the sales or
usage of similarly-functioned SS gear.

This is like the vinyl LP all over again, except that SS was dominant for at
least a decade before the LP fell into general disuse due to the
availability of the CD. Therefore, there is even less tubed equipment in
use than there are LP players still in use. If you want to see the future
for the LP, look at tubed audio gear.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 01:00 PM

Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...

> I have never paid "mega dollars for anything".

By the standards of most music lovers you have done exactly that Iain, and
you've even made the mistake of bragging about it online.

> I build my own valve amplifiers

Out of parts, some of which individually cost as much as a complete SS audio
component.

>, and as an audio professional can get speakers,
> turntables, CD players, SS amps etc on long or permanent loan.

IOW Iain, you live on charity, partially based on the deception that loaning
you equipment will help its owner to sell more equipment.

> I can also buy at professional discount, without sales tax.

So what? If what you buy is overpriced by 1000%, what sort of discount can
deal with that?

> In addition, the company of which I am a shareholder owns a
> great deal of professional equipment.

And those shares cost you nothing? Come on Iain, even if the company gave
you the stock, its taxable income in most countries.

>>>In this part of the world at least, you can buy
>>> almost any SS system at discount. There seems to be quite a
>>> long lead time for tube amps, for which people are willing to
>>> pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

>> That little demand for valve amps means no mass production cost savings!

Exactly. I can buy a SS 100 wpc stereo receiver for $80-100.

What would I pay for an assembly of tubed equipment with the same
performance? Well first off, the amp section of a SS receiver probably
outperforms *any* tubed amp ever made, in terms of low distortion. And the
FM section may do as well compared to the best tubed tuners ever made.

>>> Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they
>>> enjoy the sound which such equipment produces in their
>>> particular listening environment, and b) it suits their budget.

Nahh - a lot of people buy high end audio gear for the status they think it
will bring them. I doubt that most owners of say McIntosh or Marantz tubed
gear, or any of the niche brands that followed in their footsteps, could
score statistically significant in a blind listening test.

>>> It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make
>>> their decisions.

As if someone who is a grasping new rich status seeker will bare their soul.

>> The cost of valve amps hasn't "suited" anyones budget for years. Of
>> course
>> some will always pay a premium to be diferent however.

Tubed gear is mostly about bragging rights and sentimentality.

> The gentleman I had in mind equated it to going to the opera.

The people I know who actually go to the opera and the symphony have SS
systems, and have had SS gear for decades.

> You can either pay a very small sum, and sit up in the gods, or
> shell out for a good seat. We all make our choice according to
> our standards and requirements.

Except that listening to tubed gear in order to hear the music with the best
possible sonic accuracy is practically speaking, the bozo seats.

>>> Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
>>> people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
>>> and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

>> And since I'm sure we all do that, why the need for argument?

The arguments come when tubistas talk trash.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 01:13 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> i.fi...
>>
>>> Recording, like any other profession is not something one
>>> picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.
>>
>> Been there, done that.
>
> There you go again:-)

>>>You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
>>> music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
>>> repertoire well.

>> Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not
>> everybody who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.

> Indeed. But the above still applies, just as in the same way that
> not all pianists play classical music. But you will find, that most
> of the best jazz players for example have a strong classical
> technique. Listen to Bach. Was he not the King of Jazz?
> I worked a couple of times with the American clarinet legend
> Benny Goodman. He used to warm up on "The Forty Eight"

You're living in the past Iain. Benny Goodman has been dead for over 20
years.

> The same goes for recording. A classical background
> gives one skills in balance and acoustic perspective (which
> are not easily acquired in pop music due to the way in which
> it is put together) that can be carried forward into other areas
> of recording. Versatility is the keynote.

Still waiting for that recording that you produced all by yourself, Iain.

>> I have no interest in being taken seriously as a
>> recording engineer.

> There is no fear of that:-)

>> Given my education and most of my
>> professional career,

> You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
> world they have not been awarded for many many years.

Iain, so what?

> It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
> leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.

Nonsense.

>> being a mere recording engineer is a gigantic step
>> down, both professionally and economically.

> By economically do you mean "financially"?
> I am pretty sure, leaving recording aside for the moment,
> that someone doing transcription at a professional level
> would invoice more in an hour than a car factory employer,
> or computer repair main (or whatever you are/were)
> would earn in a day:-) And as for job satisfaction.....

Iain, You're talking trash again. Hourly rates billed, and annual taxable
income are two vastly different things. Most of my professional life, my
time was billed by my employer at $160 or more, even back in the 1980s. In
contrast my annual income barely got into the 6 figures.

> But, wait a minute, I recall not to long ago a claim by you,
> in some strange twisted logic, that you had earned enough money
> for your church to warrant the title "professional recording
> engineer". You don't meet the criterion in any sense.

You're talking trash again, Iain. I never said any such thing. You can try
to google up your lost reputation for truthfulness at your earliest
convenience.

>>> If it were not for your condescending "been there/done that",
>>> Jack of All Trades approach Arny, you could be turning out
>>> better work than your current horrendous offerings.

>> Iain, you know nothing about my work.

> You are almost certainly deluding yourself, Arny, if you
> think that I, or George, or anyone else for that matter gives
> a sixpence for your "work".

Iain, it is obvious from your many posts attacking me that I manage to
obtain considerable amounts of your valuable time. ;-)
>
>> Given your outdated, narrow views
>> and history of endless bad faith, I hope to keep it that way in the
>> interest of minimizing the ignorant spew that foist off on Usenet.

> I was sent some mp3 clips of a choir which you have
> recorded. Quite dreadful!

When you've heard them live to compare, be sure to comment again.

> A colleague, who teaches
> recording arts at conservatory level played a track
> to his students. At the end, there was a very long
> silence. Most had sickly smiles on their faces. They
> did not know whether to laugh or cry! Then one young lady,
> a cellist, burst into tears and ran out of the auditorium. She told
> her fellow students later that she thought the recording was some
> kind of cruel sacrilegious joke.

Very low, Iain.

>> I record live performances of mostly amateurs out of a sense of service
>> and charity and for fun.

> Fun?? You make gifted musicians cry!

Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but fantasy. If
they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life is, that you would
go to these extremes to gratify yourself.

bassett[_2_]

September 12th 07, 01:34 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message

> Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but >fantasy.
> If they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life is, >that you
> would go to these extremes to gratify yourself.

I really dunno why you bother Arny,, The blokes on a giant ego trip
to know where.
Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the amount
of ONE
As for being a highly talented recording engineer of vast
quantities of classical rubbish. Ask him just how many recordings
he completes in a year, and just how many carry his name as
production engineer. The answers probably the same as the number of
valve amps he makes .Minus one

Then ask him to quote the recordings and the catalogue numbers of the
finished products.

In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.

bassett

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 01:41 PM

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message

>> Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but
>> >fantasy. If they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life
>> is, >that you would go to these extremes to gratify yourself.

> I really dunno why you bother Arny,, The blokes on a giant ego
> trip to know where.

> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the amount
> of ONE

> As for being a highly talented recording engineer of vast
> quantities of classical rubbish. Ask him just how many recordings
> he completes in a year, and just how many carry his name as
> production engineer. The answers probably the same as the number of
> valve amps he makes .Minus one

> Then ask him to quote the recordings and the catalogue numbers of
> the finished products.

> In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.

Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 03:57 PM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
u...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>
>>> >> better work than your current horrendous offerings.
>
>>> > Iain, you know nothing about my work.
>
>> why is that, Arny?
>
>>> > I record live performances of mostly amateurs
>
>> oh, that's why.
>
> Badly.
>
Unbelievably badly.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 04:00 PM

"George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Iain Churches said:
>
>> > Given my education and most of my
>> > professional career,
>
>> You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
>> world they have not been awarded for many many years.
>> It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
>> leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.
>>
>> I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)
>
> Krooger does not now have a job in the recording business or in the audio
> industry, nor has he ever had one. What he calls his "career" began as a
> sales clerk in Radio Shack and progressed through assistant engineer at
> Chrysler, installer of large computer systems, and (now) "flogger" of
> workaday homebrew PCs.
>
> Also, by his own admission, Krooger's "career" consists of his Usenet
> posts. If you Google the phrase "usenet career", you'll get some insight
> into Krooger's kareer.
>
>
George. That is more or less in line with what the very funny Krooborg
CV said, except that second hand computer repair main was given as
present occupation.

What was his rank in the Army?

Iain

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 04:03 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
> u...
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>
>>>> >> better work than your current horrendous offerings.
>>
>>>> > Iain, you know nothing about my work.
>>
>>> why is that, Arny?
>>
>>>> > I record live performances of mostly amateurs

>>> oh, that's why.

>> Badly.

> Unbelievably badly.

Talk about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I suspect,
they were surely forgeries.

Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and hate
that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and bragged about
it here.

Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing potentially
faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the other technical
bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated here as revealed
truth.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 04:13 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...

> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
> ...

>> Iain Churches said:

>>> > Given my education and most of my
>>> > professional career,

>>> You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas?

What's in a name?

>>> In this part of the
>>> world they have not been awarded for many many years.

Your error here Iain is that you think you understand the respective
educational systems.

>>> It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
>>> leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.

BS is about Poly in the US. But yes, I did quite a bit of postgraduate work
as well. Just didn't put the seal on that one because of familial
responsibilities.

Iain, ask the Middiot about his educational credentials. ;-)

>>> I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)

Iain, ask the Middiot about his CV. ;-)

>> Krooger does not now have a job in the recording business or in the audio
>> industry, nor has he ever had one.

False claim.

>> What he calls his "career" began as a sales clerk in Radio Shack

A reasonable job for a 13-year-old, wouldn't you say? BTW Iain, when you
were 13, where did you work? Oh, BTW this was my second job.

>> and progressed through assistant engineer at Chrysler

<lots was skipped, including tours at IBM and GM>.

> , installer of large computer systems,

<lots was skipped, including engineering a prototype electric truck,
computer modelling, OS kernal writing, technical lecturing, etc.>

> and (now) "flogger" of workaday homebrew PCs.

<lots was skipped again>

>> Also, by his own admission, Krooger's "career" consists of his Usenet
>> posts.

Belied, even by the distorted picture above. Nice of the Middiot to
contradict himself.

> If you Google the phrase "usenet career", you'll get some insight
>> into Krooger's kareer.

Note that the Middiot's harrasment of me is so egregious that he won't spell
my name properly to avoid the possibility of sucessful litigation. The
animator of the Middiot is probably a person of some means, with something
to lose were he to be unmasked.

> George. That is more or less in line with what the very funny Krooborg
> CV said, except that second hand computer repair main was given as
> present occupation.

At least the liars are trying to make their lies consistent, except when
they blow it as above.

> What was his rank in the Army?

SP/5.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 04:19 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>>
>> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>> u...
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>> ups.com...
>>>> On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>>> >> better work than your current horrendous offerings.
>>>
>>>>> > Iain, you know nothing about my work.
>>>
>>>> why is that, Arny?
>>>
>>>>> > I record live performances of mostly amateurs
>
>>>> oh, that's why.
>
>>> Badly.
>
>> Unbelievably badly.
>
> Talk about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
>
> Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I suspect,
> they were surely forgeries.
>
> Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and hate
> that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and bragged
> about it here.
>
> Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing potentially
> faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the other technical
> bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated here as revealed
> truth.
>
I posted the link, at the time, and you admitted these were your work.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 04:22 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> i.fi...
>>>
>>> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>>> u...
>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>> ups.com...
>>>>> On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>> >> better work than your current horrendous offerings.
>>>>
>>>>>> > Iain, you know nothing about my work.
>>>>
>>>>> why is that, Arny?
>>>>
>>>>>> > I record live performances of mostly amateurs
>>
>>>>> oh, that's why.
>>
>>>> Badly.
>>
>>> Unbelievably badly.
>>
>> Talk about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
>>
>> Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I suspect,
>> they were surely forgeries.
>>
>> Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and hate
>> that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and bragged
>> about it here.
>>
>> Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing
>> potentially faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the
>> other technical bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated
>> here as revealed truth.

> I posted the link, at the time, and you admitted these were your work.

You're changing your story, Iain. Now its a link and not an email.

Do come back when you've got all your ducks in a row.

Besides Iain, where's that MP3 of the recording you made and produced all by
yourself?

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 04:28 PM

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>
>> Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but
>> >fantasy. If they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life
>> is, >that you would go to these extremes to gratify yourself.
>
> I really dunno why you bother Arny,, The blokes on a giant ego
> trip to know where.
> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the amount
> of ONE

Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg

Second batch of ten now being built. Most are already reserved.

> As for being a highly talented recording engineer of vast
> quantities of classical rubbish. Ask him just how many recordings
> he completes in a year, and just how many carry his name as
> production engineer. The answers probably the same as the number of
> valve amps he makes .Minus one.

First of all Bassett, you need to get your terminology right. There is
no such thing as a production engineer in music recording. You are
either a Producer or an Engineer. If one does both roles, then
Producer/Engineer is the correct title.

Unlike your goodself, Bassett, I have no need to cower behind a
pseudonym and a false e-mail address. Get a copy of the Decca, RCA
or Fuga classical catalogues.Then look at the EU Cultural Foundation
database. You will find plenty of my work there.

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 04:33 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..

> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>

You could answer Bassett' question by forwarding the
long list of recordings and catalogue numbers I listed for
you when you were arm in arm with Pinkie. It shut you up,
and will probaby shut Bassett up also.

Needless to say, you were too tight fisted to actually
go out any buy any of them, and I certainly was not going
to put yourt name on the complimentary copies list.

Iain

George M. Middius

September 12th 07, 04:44 PM

Iain Churches said:

> >> I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)

> > Krooger does not now have a job in the recording business or in the audio
> > industry, nor has he ever had one. What he calls his "career" began as a
> > sales clerk in Radio Shack and progressed through assistant engineer at
> > Chrysler, installer of large computer systems, and (now) "flogger" of
> > workaday homebrew PCs.

Note that in Krooger's kowardly indirect response, he confirmed all of my
assumptions.

> > Also, by his own admission, Krooger's "career" consists of his Usenet
> > posts. If you Google the phrase "usenet career", you'll get some insight
> > into Krooger's kareer.

Krooger's mental disease does not permit him to understand the inherent
irony in his pet phrase "Usenet career".

> George. That is more or less in line with what the very funny Krooborg
> CV said, except that second hand computer repair main was given as
> present occupation.

Close enough for corporate work. ;-)

> What was his rank in the Army?

I dunno, but rumor has it he received several citations for exceptional
latrine cleaning. ;-)

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 05:08 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> i.fi...
>>>>
>>>> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>>>> u...
>>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>> ups.com...
>>>>>> On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>>

>>> Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I
>>> suspect, they were surely forgeries.

No. There is no doubt they were genuine. We even discussed them.
And you made a comment that music should be fun. I replied that
recorded fun should have good intonation and be in balance. Then
it's real fun.
>>>
>>> Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and
>>> hate that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and
>>> bragged about it here.
>>>
There is no doubt they were genuine

>>> Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing
>>> potentially faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the
>>> other technical bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated
>>> here as revealed truth.
>
>> I posted the link, at the time, and you admitted these were your work.
>
> You're changing your story, Iain. Now its a link and not an email.

The story is the same. The recording remains equally horrendous.
The mp3 was sent to me as an e.mail attachment. It came from a URL.
>
> Do come back when you've got all your ducks in a row.
>
> Besides Iain, where's that MP3 of the recording you made and produced all
> by yourself?

You can buy the recordings if you want to hear them (you have a list)
You will get no charity from me.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 05:20 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> i.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>> "roughplanet" > wrote in message
>>>>> u...
>>>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ups.com...
>>>>>>> On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>
>>>> Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I
>>>> suspect, they were surely forgeries.
>
> No. There is no doubt they were genuine. We even discussed them.
> And you made a comment that music should be fun. I replied that
> recorded fun should have good intonation and be in balance. Then
> it's real fun.
>>>>
>>>> Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and
>>>> hate that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and
>>>> bragged about it here.
>>>>
> There is no doubt they were genuine
>
>>>> Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing
>>>> potentially faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the
>>>> other technical bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and
>>>> regurgitated
>>>> here as revealed truth.
>>
>>> I posted the link, at the time, and you admitted these were your work.
>>
>> You're changing your story, Iain. Now its a link and not an email.
>
> The story is the same. The recording remains equally horrendous.
> The mp3 was sent to me as an e.mail attachment. It came from a URL.
>>
>> Do come back when you've got all your ducks in a row.
>>
>> Besides Iain, where's that MP3 of the recording you made and produced all
>> by yourself?
>
> You can buy the recordings if you want to hear them (you have a list)

No such list exists. Only lists of recordings that you contributed to, one
of many.

> You will get no charity from me.

Not even honesty, just once?

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 05:22 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>>
>
> You could answer Bassett' question by forwarding the
> long list of recordings and catalogue numbers I listed for
> you when you were arm in arm with Pinkie. It shut you up,
> and will probaby shut Bassett up also.

No completely solo efforts. You know, you arranged for the artists, obtained
the venue at your own expense, personally owned every piece of equipment,
did all the setup, recording, editing, production yourself.

Apples-to-apples or zilch.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 05:25 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...

>> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
>> amount of ONE

> Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)

> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg

Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.

Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
closest chassis. ;-)

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 05:52 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>> You can buy the recordings if you want to hear them (you have a list)
>
> No such list exists. Only lists of recordings that you contributed to, one
> of many.

Check the credits. You will find each member of the team listed
>
>> You will get no charity from me.
>
> Not even honesty, just once?

Check your dictionary. Charity and honesty are not
mutually synonymous.

Once again.No free recordings. Go and buy them like
every one else does, you tight-fisted old computer repair
person:-)

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 05:54 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>> You can buy the recordings if you want to hear them (you have a list)
>>
>> No such list exists. Only lists of recordings that you contributed to,
>> one of many.
>
> Check the credits. You will find each member of the team listed

Thanks for agreeing with me - no original sole product of yours exists.

>>> You will get no charity from me.
>
>> Not even honesty, just once?

> Check your dictionary. Charity and honesty are not
> mutually synonymous.

Red herring.

> Once again.No free recordings. Go and buy them like
> every one else does, you tight-fisted old computer repair
> person:-)

I know of nothing that is solely yours Iain, and you keep confirming that
right in the midst of your denials.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 05:59 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
>>> amount of ONE
>
>> Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)
>
>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>
> Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.

My workshop. Pics of which were posted on RAT (in a thread to which
you posted) Come and take a look for yourself -any time.

Pics of your amp projects would be of great interest.

> Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
> closest chassis. ;-)

Blind as well as stupid? :-))

George M. Middius

September 12th 07, 06:06 PM

Iain Churches said:

> >> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg

> > Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.

> My workshop.

Don't those open boxes get dusty?

BTW, no amount of proof will ever get Krooger to admit that is your
workshop. Lying about everything is so deeply ingrained into Mr. ****'s
wetware that he is incapable of grasping even the meaning of "truth".

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 06:11 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>>
>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
>>>> amount of ONE
>>
>>> Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)
>>
>>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>
>> Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.

> My workshop. Pics of which were posted on RAT (in a thread to which
> you posted) Come and take a look for yourself -any time.

Coordinated lies are still lies. ;-)

> Pics of your amp projects would be of great interest.

Check Behringer's web site for their A500. I can't afford the time to
personally build a common kind of wheel.

>> Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
>> closest chassis. ;-)

> Blind as well as stupid? :-))

At worst, victimized by a poor quality jpg.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 06:55 PM

"George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Iain Churches said:
>
>> >> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>
>> > Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>
>> My workshop.
>
> Don't those open boxes get dusty?

The dust contributes to the retro sound:-) They are all tested
and await documentation in a couple of days they will have their
top panels fitted, and be ready for delivery.

You can see a ready one at:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/02A.jpg

The separate psu has two DC outputs, and can also power
a tube vinyl stage, designed and built in the same format.

>
> BTW, no amount of proof will ever get Krooger to admit that is your
> workshop. Lying about everything is so deeply ingrained into Mr. ****'s
> wetware that he is incapable of grasping even the meaning of "truth".
>

I know that George. He strikes me as a sad
old fellow. I actually feel rather sorry for him.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 07:02 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> ti.fi...
>>>>
>>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
>>>>> amount of ONE
>>>
>>>> Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)
>>>
>>>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>>
>>> Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>
>> My workshop. Pics of which were posted on RAT (in a thread to which
>> you posted) Come and take a look for yourself -any time.
>
> Coordinated lies are still lies. ;-)

Come and take a look. The offer still stands.
>
>> Pics of your amp projects would be of great interest.
>
> Check Behringer's web site for their A500. I can't afford the time to
> personally build a common kind of wheel.

So are saying you designed and built the Behringer A500? LOL

That's the unit which according to the local agent is not worthwhile
to repair. They put them in the bin and give the client a new one!

>
>>> Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
>>> closest chassis. ;-)
>
>> Blind as well as stupid? :-))
>
> At worst, victimized by a poor quality jpg.

You are indeed quite mad. It's a B9A tube socket.
Look along at the fourth unit, you will see it has the tubes fitted.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 07:29 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> .fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>>>
>>
>> You could answer Bassett' question by forwarding the
>> long list of recordings and catalogue numbers I listed for
>> you when you were arm in arm with Pinkie. It shut you up,
>> and will probaby shut Bassett up also.
>
> No completely solo efforts. You know, you arranged for the artists,
> obtained the venue at your own expense, personally owned every piece of
> equipment, did all the setup, recording, editing, production yourself.
>
> Apples-to-apples or zilch.

But you are not offering apples. You are offering rotten apples.
And by the barrel load too, it seems.

I refer you back to my early posts, on how *proper* recordings
are made - certainly not in the way that you are making them!
Can't you hear that they are horrendous? Perhaps you cannot.
Maybe that is what is wrong!

Cut your production by 90%. You need be well-versed in the
field in which you are working, be it Baroque, classical, pop,
jazz or whatever. You need to know the repertoire. You need
to pay attention to detail. In your case, where you cannot afford
the services of a professional producer, you need to be constantly
thinking not only about the technical but also the musical aspects
of the performance.

If you want to record choirs, and it seems that you do, take
the time to listen to some proper choir recordings with good
performers (King's College, Cambridge, on Decca, is one of the
finest in the world, recorded in an excellent acoustic)
Listen intently, follow the score. Learn.

You are doing your church a great disservice by passing off
such shoddy work. Shame on you! If, on the day of Judgement
God turns out to have perfect pitch, you and your band of
tambourine bashers will be in real trouble:-)

Take much more care, with infinitely more forward planning, for
each project. Have higher standards. Listen to other people's
work. Keep in touch with reality. Forget your "Been there, done
that" You may have been there, but you did nothing at all of any
merit.

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 07:33 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> i.fi...
>>>
>>>> Recording, like any other profession is not something one
>>>> picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.
>>>
>>> Been there, done that.
>>
>> There you go again:-)
>
>>>>You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
>>>> music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
>>>> repertoire well.
>
>>> Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not
>>> everybody who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.
>
>> Indeed. But the above still applies, just as in the same way that
>> not all pianists play classical music. But you will find, that most
>> of the best jazz players for example have a strong classical
>> technique. Listen to Bach. Was he not the King of Jazz?
>> I worked a couple of times with the American clarinet legend
>> Benny Goodman. He used to warm up on "The Forty Eight"
>
> You're living in the past Iain. Benny Goodman has been dead for over 20
> years.

And Bach died in 1750. Does that detract from his greatness?
I worked with BG when I was a very young man. It was an
unforgettable experience.

>> You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
>> world they have not been awarded for many many years.
>
> Iain, so what?
>
>> It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
>> leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.
>
> Nonsense.

True, sorry to say. I doubt that you could pass the
Swedish sec school leavers exam. Your English is
not good enough:-)
>
> Iain, You're talking trash again. Hourly rates billed, and annual taxable
> income are two vastly different things. Most of my professional life, my
> time was billed by my employer at $160 or more, even back in the 1980s. In
> contrast my annual income barely got into the 6 figures.

So have you always been employed by someone else?
They are skimming the fruits of your labours.

In the case of a transcription engineer working on a
consultancy basis, he is his own employer and so the
total invoice is paid to the company of which he is a
shareholder.

>
>> But, wait a minute, I recall not to long ago a claim by you,
>> in some strange twisted logic, that you had earned enough money
>> for your church to warrant the title "professional recording
>> engineer". You don't meet the criterion in any sense.
>
> You're talking trash again, Iain. I never said any such thing. You can try
> to google up your lost reputation for truthfulness at your earliest
> convenience.

I won't need to do that. It caused great amusement at the time.
Someone will remember, and send it to me by e-mail., that's for sure.

> Iain, it is obvious from your many posts attacking me that I manage to
> obtain considerable amounts of your valuable time. ;-)'

Usually when the DAW is uploading or downloading. So it's not
my time (work it out:-)
>>
>>> Given your outdated, narrow views
>>> and history of endless bad faith, I hope to keep it that way in the
>>> interest of minimizing the ignorant spew that foist off on Usenet.
>
>> I was sent some mp3 clips of a choir which you have
>> recorded. Quite dreadful!
>
> When you've heard them live to compare, be sure to comment again.

I pray to God I shall be spared from such an experience.
Give me the wonderful music of the Russian Orthodox any day.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 07:34 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> .fi...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>
>>>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You could answer Bassett' question by forwarding the
>>> long list of recordings and catalogue numbers I listed for
>>> you when you were arm in arm with Pinkie. It shut you up,
>>> and will probaby shut Bassett up also.
>>
>> No completely solo efforts. You know, you arranged for the artists,
>> obtained the venue at your own expense, personally owned every piece of
>> equipment, did all the setup, recording, editing, production yourself.
>>
>> Apples-to-apples or zilch.
>
> But you are not offering apples. You are offering rotten apples.
> And by the barrel load too, it seems.

<snip remaining similarly irrelevant posturing>

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 07:38 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> i.fi...
>>>
>>>>> One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
>>>>
>>>> Yes, their term only.
>>>>
>>>>> from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
>>>>> the other way.
>
>>>> Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
>>>> seventies did they!!!!
>
>>> Iain, clearly lives in an alternative universe, doesn't he?
>
>> Once again, comprehension let's you down badly, Arny.
>> I am referring to current trends in purchasing.
>
Hi Arny.

> You've missed the point again. The past trend in purchasing was to scrap
> tubes for solid state. That took tubed audio gear from total dominance
> down to a tiny niche. That tiny niche of remaining tubed equipment is so
> miniscule that it could double, triple, probably even grow by 10 times,
> and still have no discernable impact on the sales or usage of
> similarly-functioned SS gear.

Now you are back to lowest common denominators
again Arny. Is that all you understand? What interests
me here is not mass sales. The number of suits sold by
Saville Row tailors is miniscule compared to those sold
by your cheap and cheerful American mass-retail outlets.
In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
own a Bentley, just like the people who own a bespoke
tube amp, would not change it for the world. The same
applies to hand made furniture, or small volume clock
and watch production. I for one am happy that there is still
some demand for craftsmanship in the world.

Iain

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 07:40 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> i.fi...
>>>>
>>>>> Recording, like any other profession is not something one
>>>>> picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.
>>>>
>>>> Been there, done that.
>>>
>>> There you go again:-)
>>
>>>>>You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
>>>>> music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
>>>>> repertoire well.
>>
>>>> Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not
>>>> everybody who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.
>>
>>> Indeed. But the above still applies, just as in the same way that
>>> not all pianists play classical music. But you will find, that most
>>> of the best jazz players for example have a strong classical
>>> technique. Listen to Bach. Was he not the King of Jazz?
>>> I worked a couple of times with the American clarinet legend
>>> Benny Goodman. He used to warm up on "The Forty Eight"

>> You're living in the past Iain. Benny Goodman has been dead for over 20
>> years.

> And Bach died in 1750. Does that detract from his greatness?
> I worked with BG when I was a very young man. It was an
> unforgettable experience.

Very nice but relevant to life in 2007 how?

>>> You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
>>> world they have not been awarded for many many years.
>
>> Iain, so what?

>>> It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
>>> leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
> True, sorry to say.

No, said by someone who is incurably sorry.

> I doubt that you could pass the
> Swedish sec school leavers exam. Your English is
> not good enough:-)

So you say, Iain. But according to you tubes are poised to make a comeback
in the audio world. How relevant is that?

>> Iain, You're talking trash again. Hourly rates billed, and annual taxable
>> income are two vastly different things. Most of my professional life, my
>> time was billed by my employer at $160 or more, even back in the 1980s.
>> In
>> contrast my annual income barely got into the 6 figures.

> So have you always been employed by someone else?

Most of my life.

> They are skimming the fruits of your labours.

As did your employers Iain, presuming that you were once far more relevant
and productive.

> In the case of a transcription engineer working on a
> consultancy basis, he is his own employer and so the
> total invoice is paid to the company of which he is a
> shareholder.

Obviously you've never run a consulting business, Iain. There's this little
thing called "overhead".

>>> But, wait a minute, I recall not to long ago a claim by you,
>>> in some strange twisted logic, that you had earned enough money
>>> for your church to warrant the title "professional recording
>>> engineer". You don't meet the criterion in any sense.

>> You're talking trash again, Iain. I never said any such thing. You can
>> try
>> to google up your lost reputation for truthfulness at your earliest
>> convenience.

> I won't need to do that. It caused great amusement at the time.
> Someone will remember, and send it to me by e-mail., that's for sure.

Interesting that you believe everything that anybody emails to you, Iain.

>> Iain, it is obvious from your many posts attacking me that I manage to
>> obtain considerable amounts of your valuable time. ;-)'

> Usually when the DAW is uploading or downloading. So it's not
> my time (work it out:-)

I always find something worthwhile to mulitask at such times.

>>>> Given your outdated, narrow views
>>>> and history of endless bad faith, I hope to keep it that way in the
>>>> interest of minimizing the ignorant spew that foist off on Usenet.
>>
>>> I was sent some mp3 clips of a choir which you have
>>> recorded. Quite dreadful!

>> When you've heard them live to compare, be sure to comment again.

> I pray to God I shall be spared from such an experience.
> Give me the wonderful music of the Russian Orthodox any day.

Whatever that means. Let me guess - that passes for a joke in Finland?

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 07:48 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>>> i.fi...
>>>>
>>>>>> One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, their term only.
>>>>>
>>>>>> from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
>>>>>> the other way.
>>
>>>>> Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
>>>>> seventies did they!!!!
>>
>>>> Iain, clearly lives in an alternative universe, doesn't he?
>>
>>> Once again, comprehension let's you down badly, Arny.
>>> I am referring to current trends in purchasing.
>>
> Hi Arny.
>
>> You've missed the point again. The past trend in purchasing was to scrap
>> tubes for solid state. That took tubed audio gear from total dominance
>> down to a tiny niche. That tiny niche of remaining tubed equipment is so
>> miniscule that it could double, triple, probably even grow by 10 times,
>> and still have no discernable impact on the sales or usage of
>> similarly-functioned SS gear.
>
> Now you are back to lowest common denominators
> again Arny.

Who says its low?

> Is that all you understand?

Yawn.

> What interests me here is not mass sales.

Obviously, neither does sound quality interest you.

> The number of suits sold by
> Saville Row tailors is miniscule compared to those sold
> by your cheap and cheerful American mass-retail outlets.

Irrelevant comparison because a custom-tailored suit does actually fit
better.

> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
> own a Bentley,

Major justification: status symbol

> just like the people who own a bespoke
> tube amp, would not change it for the world.

Major justification: status symbol

> The same applies to hand made furniture,

Actually interesting when unique pieces are involved.

> or small volume clock and watch production.

Major justification: status symbol

> I for one am happy that there is still
> some demand for craftsmanship in the world.

I hate to see good workmanship wasted on whimsy and weak egos badly in need
of tangible support.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 07:52 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> .fi...
>>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You could answer Bassett' question by forwarding the
>>>> long list of recordings and catalogue numbers I listed for
>>>> you when you were arm in arm with Pinkie. It shut you up,
>>>> and will probaby shut Bassett up also.
>>>
>>> No completely solo efforts. You know, you arranged for the artists,
>>> obtained the venue at your own expense, personally owned every piece of
>>> equipment, did all the setup, recording, editing, production yourself.
>>>
>>> Apples-to-apples or zilch.
>>
>> But you are not offering apples. You are offering rotten apples.
>> And by the barrel load too, it seems.
>
> <snip remaining similarly irrelevant posturing>
Most of which came from a recording arts textbook
You have no chance of improving if you will not learn.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 12th 07, 08:01 PM

On Sep 12, 10:03 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and hate
> that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and bragged about
> it here.
>
> Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing potentially
> faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the other technical
> bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated here as revealed
> truth.

Do yo have examples of your 'work' online, Arns? Is your best stuff on
your website?

Who is better than you at recording? JA? Bob Morein? Who of the pros
is as good as you are, Arns?

Of course, Arns, your insanity no doubt clouds your judgement.

George M. Middius

September 12th 07, 08:05 PM

Iain Churches said:

> > BTW, no amount of proof will ever get Krooger to admit that is your
> > workshop. Lying about everything is so deeply ingrained into Mr. ****'s
> > wetware that he is incapable of grasping even the meaning of "truth".

> I know that George. He strikes me as a sad
> old fellow. I actually feel rather sorry for him.

That's Stage Three of the Five Stages of Krooger Acclimatization. I'm sure
you've been through the first two; here's the whole list.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The Five Stages of Krooger Acclimatization

1. Rationalization

When a Normal first encounters the Krooborg, his or her first instinct is
to reason with the Beast. It's only natural to try to clear up what appear
to be misunderstandings, whether by repetition, reasoning, or reference to
documented facts. Rationalization always fails with the Krooborg. It
usually leads to Turdborg calling the Normal a "liar" or inventing bizarre
and twisted interpretations of what the Normal said.

2. Outrage

Krooger's ridiculous accusations, mindless hair-splitting, and outright
lies tend to inspire outrage. During the Outrage Stage, a Normal is likely
to snap at the Krooborg, call it names, or make an issue of its towering
hypocrisy. None of these Normal behaviors deters the Krooborg from seeking
what it believes is a "debating trade victory" -- i.e., more of the same
behavior that outraged the Normal to begin with.

3. Pity

After observing at first-hand the Krooborg's inability to converse with
human beings, most Normals experience pity for it. The Beast's unhealthy
emotional state and obviously damaged mind cause most Normals to try a bit
of consoling, or even apology. These human responses are likely to provoke
Mr. **** into proclamations of "victory".

4. Disgust

The Fourth Stage occurs when a Normal realizes the pointlessness of
continuing to engage the Krooborg. Having failed to reach it with logic,
reason, submissiveness, or babying, the Normal is likely to give up on
having any serious exchange with Mr. ****.

5. Reviling or Killfile

Having reached the inescapable conclusion that treating the Krooborg as a
human being is pointless, the Normal almost invariably either skews his or
her posts toward hostility or simply ignores the Beast. (The few exceptions
are Normals who are employed in the audio industry.) If you encounter an
individual who does not either revile the Krooborg or have it killfiled,
that individual is a 'borg.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This pattern has repeated itself many times. The pattern is
well-established and ineluctable. (Other posters have described the Krooger
Effect in different terms; the Five Stages described above are the
Resistance's official stance.)

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 08:09 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> ti.fi...
>>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>>> i.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Recording, like any other profession is not something one
>>>>>> picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Been there, done that.
>>>>
>>>> There you go again:-)
>>>
>>>>>>You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
>>>>>> music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
>>>>>> repertoire well.
>>>
>>>>> Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not
>>>>> everybody who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.
>>>
>>>> Indeed. But the above still applies, just as in the same way that
>>>> not all pianists play classical music. But you will find, that most
>>>> of the best jazz players for example have a strong classical
>>>> technique. Listen to Bach. Was he not the King of Jazz?
>>>> I worked a couple of times with the American clarinet legend
>>>> Benny Goodman. He used to warm up on "The Forty Eight"
>
>>> You're living in the past Iain. Benny Goodman has been dead for over 20
>>> years.
>
>> And Bach died in 1750. Does that detract from his greatness?
>> I worked with BG when I was a very young man. It was an
>> unforgettable experience.
>
> Very nice but relevant to life in 2007 how?

For me, quite simply by building experience, and a recorded
repertoire.

Everyone in jazz knows of Benny Goodman, and to have worked
with the man is a great honour. Clarinet students today
listen and study his work, just as saxophone students study the
work of Charlie Parker who died in 1955, and jazz composers
and arrangers study Ellington who died in 1972. That kind of
genius is timeless. That is how it is relevant to 2007.
>
>> I doubt that you could pass the
>> Swedish sec school leavers exam. Your English is
>> not good enough:-)
>
> So you say, Iain. But according to you tubes are poised to make a comeback
> in the audio world. How relevant is that?

Where did I say that? You are rambling my dear fellow.
Since the the 1990s sales of tube amps have been increasing
steadily. They are not huge, but there are a number of small
companies, like Patrick Turner for instance, and Per Lindstrom
here in Sweden, who make a very good living indeed building
bespoke tube amps, to the customer's exact requirements.
Beats being a second hand computer repair man any day,
doesn't it:-)
>

>> So have you always been employed by someone else?
>
> Most of my life.
>
>> They are skimming the fruits of your labours.
>
> As did your employers Iain, presuming that you were once far more relevant
> and productive.

I worked at two major companies, because this was the way to
get the training and experience which I needed, It was the best
investment I ever made, and has certainly paid itself back many
times over in later life.
>
> Obviously you've never run a consulting business, Iain. There's this
> little thing called "overhead".

I am a partner in two thriving companies.
>
>>>> But, wait a minute, I recall not to long ago a claim by you,
>>>> in some strange twisted logic, that you had earned enough money
>>>> for your church to warrant the title "professional recording
>>>> engineer". You don't meet the criterion in any sense.
>
>>> You're talking trash again, Iain. I never said any such thing. You can
>>> try
>>> to google up your lost reputation for truthfulness at your earliest
>>> convenience.
>
>> I won't need to do that. It caused great amusement at the time.
>> Someone will remember, and send it to me by e-mail., that's for sure.
>
> Interesting that you believe everything that anybody emails to you, Iain.

I am sure they will find the very post, by you, to which I refer.
>

>> I pray to God I shall be spared from such an experience.
>> Give me the wonderful music of the Russian Orthodox any day.
>
> Whatever that means. Let me guess - that passes for a joke in Finland?

So you are not familiar with the music of the Russian Orthodox Church?
Grecheninov, Bortnynski (I think that is how it is spelt)
Quite wonderful! Forget your tambourione bashers Arny and get
acquainted with some real choral music.

Richard Crowley

September 12th 07, 08:29 PM

"Iain Churches" wrote ...
> So you are not familiar with the music of the Russian Orthodox Church?
> Grecheninov, Bortnynski (I think that is how it is spelt)
> Quite wonderful! Forget your tambourione bashers Arny and get
> acquainted with some real choral music.

Arkhangelski, Bortniansky, Chesnokov, Glinka,
Grecaninoff, Ippolitov-Ivanov, Kalinnikov, Kopylov,
Leontovich, Lvov, Nikolsky, Prokhorov, Rachmaninoff,
Sheremetev, Shvedoff, Sveshnikov, Taneyev, Tchaikovsky,
Volna.

All those unforgettable hit-makers published by Musica
Russica :-) At least those are the ones in my current
collection.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 08:31 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>>

>>> You've missed the point again. The past trend in purchasing was to scrap
>>> tubes for solid state. That took tubed audio gear from total dominance
>>> down to a tiny niche. That tiny niche of remaining tubed equipment is so
>>> miniscule that it could double, triple, probably even grow by 10 times,
>>> and still have no discernable impact on the sales or usage of
>>> similarly-functioned SS gear.
>>
>> Now you are back to lowest common denominators
>> again Arny.
>
> Who says its low?
>
>> Is that all you understand?
>
> Yawn.
Is is past your bed time?
>
>> What interests me here is not mass sales.
>
> Obviously, neither does sound quality interest you.

Gosh. You are thick.! Tube audio is a hobby for
me. The fact that is is a hobby which also brings in
income is besides the point.
>
>> The number of suits sold by
>> Saville Row tailors is miniscule compared to those sold
>> by your cheap and cheerful American mass-retail outlets.
>
> Irrelevant comparison because a custom-tailored suit does actually fit
> better.

When a client buys a custom built amp from
Patrick, or Lindstrom, his wishes become a part
of the design strategy. He may choose the
number of inputs for a preamp, balanced or
unbalanced, at a chosen sentivity. He may choose
on a power amp the chassis materials,
stainless steel, nickel plated, copper or whatever.
So, just like a Saville Row suit, the system fits
and reflects the personality of the owner.
It is *exactly* what he wanted. Not some shoddy SS
amp in a 1mm thick folded chassis, available from every
discount store from LA to Hong Kong.
>
>> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
>> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
>> own a Bentley,
>
> Major justification: status symbol

Excellent car. The only people who don't like them are
those that haven't got one.
>
>> just like the people who own a bespoke
>> tube amp, would not change it for the world.
>
> Major justification: status symbol

Ditto.

>
>> The same applies to hand made furniture,
>
> Actually interesting when unique pieces are involved.
>
>> or small volume clock and watch production.
>
> Major justification: status symbol

You are indeed a pleb! Without, it seems, a modicum
of good taste:-)

>
>> I for one am happy that there is still
>> some demand for craftsmanship in the world.
>
> I hate to see good workmanship wasted on whimsy and weak egos badly in
> need of tangible support.

People like Patrick, and Lindstrom, are
the most pleasant and content people one could
wish to meet. Tube craft is a very rewarding pursuit.
But it requires a level of dedication that few possess.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 12th 07, 08:36 PM

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> "Iain Churches" wrote ...
>> So you are not familiar with the music of the Russian Orthodox Church?
>> Grecheninov, Bortnynski (I think that is how it is spelt)
>> Quite wonderful! Forget your tambourione bashers Arny and get
>> acquainted with some real choral music.
>
> Arkhangelski, Bortniansky, Chesnokov, Glinka,
> Grecaninoff, Ippolitov-Ivanov, Kalinnikov, Kopylov,
> Leontovich, Lvov, Nikolsky, Prokhorov, Rachmaninoff,
> Sheremetev, Shvedoff, Sveshnikov, Taneyev, Tchaikovsky,
> Volna.
>
> All those unforgettable hit-makers published by Musica
> Russica :-) At least those are the ones in my current
> collection.

Hi Richard. There are some names there with which I am
not familiar. So much wonderful music - so little time.

Clyde Slick

September 12th 07, 08:46 PM

On 12 Sep, 15:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> "bassett" > wrote in message
>

> > In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.
>
> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.

nice friend you got, arny.
DId you meet him in church this past sunday?

Clyde Slick

September 12th 07, 08:55 PM

On 12 Sep, 22:05, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Iain Churches said:
>
> > > BTW, no amount of proof will ever get Krooger to admit that is your
> > > workshop. Lying about everything is so deeply ingrained into Mr. ****'s
> > > wetware that he is incapable of grasping even the meaning of "truth".
> > I know that George. He strikes me as a sad
> > old fellow. I actually feel rather sorry for him.
>
> That's Stage Three of the Five Stages of Krooger Acclimatization. I'm sure
> you've been through the first two; here's the whole list.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> The Five Stages of Krooger Acclimatization
>
> 1. Rationalization
>
> When a Normal first encounters the Krooborg, his or her first instinct is
> to reason with the Beast. It's only natural to try to clear up what appear
> to be misunderstandings, whether by repetition, reasoning, or reference to
> documented facts. Rationalization always fails with the Krooborg. It
> usually leads to Turdborg calling the Normal a "liar" or inventing bizarre
> and twisted interpretations of what the Normal said.
>
> 2. Outrage
>
> Krooger's ridiculous accusations, mindless hair-splitting, and outright
> lies tend to inspire outrage. During the Outrage Stage, a Normal is likely
> to snap at the Krooborg, call it names, or make an issue of its towering
> hypocrisy. None of these Normal behaviors deters the Krooborg from seeking
> what it believes is a "debating trade victory" -- i.e., more of the same
> behavior that outraged the Normal to begin with.
>
> 3. Pity
>
> After observing at first-hand the Krooborg's inability to converse with
> human beings, most Normals experience pity for it. The Beast's unhealthy
> emotional state and obviously damaged mind cause most Normals to try a bit
> of consoling, or even apology. These human responses are likely to provoke
> Mr. **** into proclamations of "victory".
>
> 4. Disgust
>
> The Fourth Stage occurs when a Normal realizes the pointlessness of
> continuing to engage the Krooborg. Having failed to reach it with logic,
> reason, submissiveness, or babying, the Normal is likely to give up on
> having any serious exchange with Mr. ****.
>
> 5. Reviling or Killfile
>
> Having reached the inescapable conclusion that treating the Krooborg as a
> human being is pointless, the Normal almost invariably either skews his or
> her posts toward hostility or simply ignores the Beast. (The few exceptions
> are Normals who are employed in the audio industry.) If you encounter an
> individual who does not either revile the Krooborg or have it killfiled,
> that individual is a 'borg.
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> This pattern has repeated itself many times. The pattern is
> well-established and ineluctable. (Other posters have described the Krooger
> Effect in different terms; the Five Stages described above are the
> Resistance's official stance.)

I've completely skipped step 3, Pity.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 09:49 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> i.fi...
>>>
>
>>>> You've missed the point again. The past trend in purchasing was to
>>>> scrap
>>>> tubes for solid state. That took tubed audio gear from total dominance
>>>> down to a tiny niche. That tiny niche of remaining tubed equipment is
>>>> so
>>>> miniscule that it could double, triple, probably even grow by 10 times,
>>>> and still have no discernable impact on the sales or usage of
>>>> similarly-functioned SS gear.
>>>
>>> Now you are back to lowest common denominators
>>> again Arny.
>>
>> Who says its low?
>>
>>> Is that all you understand?
>>
>> Yawn.
> Is is past your bed time?
>>
>>> What interests me here is not mass sales.
>>
>> Obviously, neither does sound quality interest you.
>
> Gosh. You are thick.! Tube audio is a hobby for
> me.

Yeah Iain, a really odd hobby where you waste time with less than the best
sound available for a reasonable price.

> The fact that is is a hobby which also brings in income is besides the
> point.

Agreed. So why say it? We've heard you brag about this, plenty.

>>> The number of suits sold by
>>> Saville Row tailors is miniscule compared to those sold
>>> by your cheap and cheerful American mass-retail outlets.

>> Irrelevant comparison because a custom-tailored suit does actually fit
>> better.

> When a client buys a custom built amp from
> Patrick, or Lindstrom, his wishes become a part
> of the design strategy.

Most people are far more interested in how the music sounds. Sue 'em all!

> He may choose the
> number of inputs for a preamp, balanced or
> unbalanced, at a chosen sensitivity.

What does it matter as long as there are enough inputs with the desired
config?

> He may choose
> on a power amp the chassis materials,
> stainless steel, nickel plated, copper or whatever.

What does it matter as long as the parts are kept safe, and the ergo and
appearance is reasonble?

> So, just like a Saville Row suit, the system fits
> and reflects the personality of the owner.

What does it say if a person needs crutches to project who they are?

> It is *exactly* what he wanted. Not some shoddy SS
> amp in a 1mm thick folded chassis, available from every
> discount store from LA to Hong Kong.

Straw man argument, the only reasonble alternative is not shoddy.

>>> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
>>> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
>>> own a Bentley,
>>
>> Major justification: status symbol

> Excellent car. The only people who don't like them are
> those that haven't got one.

Wrong. For many people it is a completely impractical car. Furthermore it
projects an image of materialsm and "It's all about money, my money" that
may not fit them.

>> just like the people who own a bespoke
>>> tube amp, would not change it for the world.
>>
>> Major justification: status symbol

> Ditto.

Ditto.

>>> The same applies to hand made furniture,
>>
>> Actually interesting when unique pieces are involved.
>>
>>> or small volume clock and watch production.
>>
>> Major justification: status symbol

> You are indeed a pleb! Without, it seems, a modicum
> of good taste:-)

I don't care what you think of me, Iain. Denigrate my preferences as you
will. Most persons with taste will consider the source.

>>> I for one am happy that there is still
>>> some demand for craftsmanship in the world.

>> I hate to see good workmanship wasted on whimsy and weak egos badly in
>> need of tangible support.

> People like Patrick, and Lindstrom, are
> the most pleasant and content people one could
> wish to meet.

They have the pleasure of service and craft. Too bad they are so taken up
with trying to please some very shallow people.

> Tube craft is a very rewarding pursuit.

Only if the best possible sound is not your goal.

> But it requires a level of dedication that few possess.

It requires a level of obscurity that most have no time for.

George M. Middius

September 12th 07, 09:50 PM

Iain Churches said to The Big ****:

> >> And Bach died in 1750. Does that detract from his greatness?
> >> I worked with BG when I was a very young man. It was an
> >> unforgettable experience.

> > Very nice but relevant to life in 2007 how?

> For me, quite simply by building experience, and a recorded
> repertoire.

> Everyone in jazz knows of Benny Goodman, and to have worked
> with the man is a great honour. Clarinet students today
> listen and study his work, just as saxophone students study the
> work of Charlie Parker who died in 1955, and jazz composers
> and arrangers study Ellington who died in 1972. That kind of
> genius is timeless. That is how it is relevant to 2007.

Your point is quite right, and the wisdom of it is apparent even to
non-productionoids (most of RAO).

However, you're "debating" with someone who has repeatedly pooh-poohed
music as a reference for audio.

--

"Music is irrelevant to audio."
A. Krooger (1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006)

Arny Krueger

September 12th 07, 09:57 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...

> Cut your production by 90%.

Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
justification for your weirdness.

> You need be well-versed in the
> field in which you are working, be it Baroque, classical, pop,
> jazz or whatever.

Working on it. I've got an in-house guy with a PhD in music to help me.

> You need to know the repertoire.

I don't get to choose that.

> You need to pay attention to detail.

Been there, done that and in many ways you'll never understand for lack of
practical experience.

> In your case, where you cannot afford
> the services of a professional producer, you need to be constantly
> thinking not only about the technical but also the musical aspects
> of the performance.

I leave that to the PhD who works with the musicians.

> If you want to record choirs, and it seems that you do, take
> the time to listen to some proper choir recordings with good
> performers (King's College, Cambridge, on Decca, is one of the
> finest in the world, recorded in an excellent acoustic)
> Listen intently, follow the score. Learn.

I rarely have the luxury of even a mediocre acoustic, so Iain your advice is
worthless.

> You are doing your church a great disservice by passing off
> such shoddy work.

I've produced about 400 hours of work for my church. How much of it have you
heard?

> Shame on you! If, on the day of Judgement
> God turns out to have perfect pitch, you and your band of
> tambourine bashers will be in real trouble:-)

We do have a tambourine, but its part of much of our musical genre. Your
comments indicate ignorance of the genre in which I often work, Iain.

> Take much more care, with infinitely more forward planning, for
> each project.

Planning is another thing that is pretty limited by the context. At the
earliest, I know the song selection 4 days before the day of recording.

> Have higher standards.

If I had higher standards for many things, I'd be of zero service to my
market.

> Listen to other people's work.

I do that quite a bit.

> Keep in touch with reality.

That would mean totally avoiding you, Iain.

> Forget your "Been there, done
> that" You may have been there, but you did nothing at all of any
> merit.

So what percentage of the 400 or so hours of recordings that I've made in
the past 4-5 years have you heard, Iain?

George M. Middius

September 12th 07, 11:58 PM

Iain Churches said:

> >> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
> >> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
> >> own a Bentley,

> > Major justification: status symbol

> Excellent car. The only people who don't like them are
> those that haven't got one.

I'm not justifying the Krooborg's odious class envy, but shouldn't the very
rich take a leadership role in reducing our dependence on carbon-based
fuels?

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 13th 07, 02:20 AM

On Sep 12, 3:57 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> So what percentage of the 400 or so hours of recordings that I've made in
> the past 4-5 years have you heard, Iain?

Put up a bunch on your website then, good old Arns.

They're digital, I presume, so nothing will be lost.

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 02:37 AM

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 02:42 AM

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 12 Sep, 15:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>
>
>
>> > In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.
>>
>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>
> nice friend you got, arny.
> DId you meet him in church this past sunday?
>

No he ****'in didn't, so mind your business Cum Stain,

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 02:58 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but
>>> >fantasy. If they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life
>>> is, >that you would go to these extremes to gratify yourself.
>>
>> I really dunno why you bother Arny,, The blokes on a giant ego
>> trip to know where.
>> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
>> amount of ONE
>
> Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)

people tend to do that when an infection arrives

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg

Well they won't win any awords for design, that's for sure.

> Second batch of ten now being built. Most are already reserved.

there lose is our gain, Still anyone doing business with the
likes of you, deserve's all they get.

> First of all Bassett, you need to get your terminology right. There is
> no such thing as a production engineer in music recording. You are
> either a Producer or an Engineer. If one does both roles, then
> Producer/Engineer is the correct title.

I don't need to get anything right, If you don't like what you
read, don't read it. life really is that simply
>
> Unlike your goodself, Bassett, I have no need to cower behind a
> pseudonym and a false e-mail address.

That will be the day Boy, that I cower behind anything, I also
don't need to explain my reasons for the bodgee name or address,
to the likes of queer ****s like you.

>Get a copy of the Decca, RCA or Fuga classical catalogues.Then >look at
>the EU Cultural Foundation database. You will find plenty >of my work
>there.
>
> Iain

Still going on about Decca are we, pathitic really, bit like
benny goodman, or Benjamin David. Anyway the ****'s dead.
Your living in the past, you really should up date your brain,
together with your ego.

lov to arny bassett

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 03:10 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> Iain Churches said:
>>
>>> >> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>
>>> > Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>>
>>> My workshop.
>>
>> Don't those open boxes get dusty?
>
> The dust contributes to the retro sound:-) They are all tested
> and await documentation in a couple of days they will have their
> top panels fitted, and be ready for delivery.
>
> You can see a ready one at:
>
> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/02A.jpg
>
> The separate psu has two DC outputs, and can also power
> a tube vinyl stage, designed and built in the same format.

First of all Stupid, you need to get your terminology right.
it's a Phono stage.

>> BTW, no amount of proof will ever get Krooger to admit that is your
>> workshop. Lying about everything is so deeply ingrained into Mr. ****'s
>> wetware that he is incapable of grasping even the meaning of "truth".
>>
>
> I know that George. He strikes me as a sad
> old fellow. I actually feel rather sorry for him.
>
>

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 03:12 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> ti.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>>> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
>>>>>> amount of ONE
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>>
>>> My workshop. Pics of which were posted on RAT (in a thread to which
>>> you posted) Come and take a look for yourself -any time.
>>
>> Coordinated lies are still lies. ;-)
>
> Come and take a look. The offer still stands.
>>
>>> Pics of your amp projects would be of great interest.
>>
>> Check Behringer's web site for their A500. I can't afford the time to
>> personally build a common kind of wheel.
>
> So are saying you designed and built the Behringer A500? LOL
>
> That's the unit which according to the local agent is not worthwhile
> to repair. They put them in the bin and give the client a new one!
>
>>
>>>> Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
>>>> closest chassis. ;-)
>>
>>> Blind as well as stupid? :-))
>>
>> At worst, victimized by a poor quality jpg.
>
> You are indeed quite mad. It's a B9A tube socket.
> Look along at the fourth unit, you will see it has the tubes fitted.

Funny I thought they where valves,,, Tubes are things water runs
through....

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 03:28 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message >>>>
>
> I worked with BG when I was a very young man. It was an
> unforgettable experience.

You told everyone that, some 20 odd posts ago, got any current news,
or are just wallowing in memories.
At that stage in your sad little life, you where no doubt the
chief [self titled] tea boy.
Was that when you where in control of Decca.

> True, sorry to say. I doubt that you could pass the
> Swedish sec school leavers exam. Your English is
> not good enough:-)

Why the ****, would anyone want to.

> So have you always been employed by someone else?
> They are skimming the fruits of your labours.

Well you would hardly be employed by yourself , now would you.
Still I expect your five little friends get a lot of work.

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 03:33 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message >
> Now you are back to lowest common denominators
> again Arny. Is that all you understand? What interests
> me here is not mass sales. The number of suits sold by
> Saville Row tailors is miniscule compared to those sold
> by your cheap and cheerful American mass-retail outlets.
> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
> own a Bentley, just like the people who own a bespoke
> tube amp, would not change it for the world. The same
> applies to hand made furniture, or small volume clock
> and watch production. I for one am happy that there is still
> some demand for craftsmanship in the world.
>
> Iain

bentley went broke and are now owned by VW

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 06:25 AM

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message >
>> Now you are back to lowest common denominators
>> again Arny. Is that all you understand? What interests
>> me here is not mass sales. The number of suits sold by
>> Saville Row tailors is miniscule compared to those sold
>> by your cheap and cheerful American mass-retail outlets.
>> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
>> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
>> own a Bentley, just like the people who own a bespoke
>> tube amp, would not change it for the world. The same
>> applies to hand made furniture, or small volume clock
>> and watch production. I for one am happy that there is still
>> some demand for craftsmanship in the world.
>>
>> Iain
>
> bentley went broke and are now owned by VW

Bentley is still built in the UK, and like the other
prestigious marques, Aston Martin etc, have a healthy order
book.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 07:00 AM

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>>
>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Iain Churches said:
>>>
>>>> >> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>>
>>>> > Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>>>
>>>> My workshop.
>>>
>>> Don't those open boxes get dusty?
>>
>> The dust contributes to the retro sound:-) They are all tested
>> and await documentation in a couple of days they will have their
>> top panels fitted, and be ready for delivery.
>>
>> You can see a ready one at:
>>
>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/02A.jpg
>>
>> The separate psu has two DC outputs, and can also power
>> a tube vinyl stage, designed and built in the same format.
>
> First of all Stupid, you need to get your terminology right.
> it's a Phono stage.

The unit is called TVS, the monogram for Tube Vinyl
Stage.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 07:04 AM

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> ti.fi...
>>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>>>
>>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>>> ti.fi...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
>>>>>>> amount of ONE
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>>>
>>>> My workshop. Pics of which were posted on RAT (in a thread to which
>>>> you posted) Come and take a look for yourself -any time.
>>>
>>> Coordinated lies are still lies. ;-)
>>
>> Come and take a look. The offer still stands.
>>>
>>>> Pics of your amp projects would be of great interest.
>>>
>>> Check Behringer's web site for their A500. I can't afford the time to
>>> personally build a common kind of wheel.
>>
>> So are saying you designed and built the Behringer A500? LOL
>>
>> That's the unit which according to the local agent is not worthwhile
>> to repair. They put them in the bin and give the client a new one!
>>
>>>
>>>>> Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
>>>>> closest chassis. ;-)
>>>
>>>> Blind as well as stupid? :-))
>>>
>>> At worst, victimized by a poor quality jpg.
>>
>> You are indeed quite mad. It's a B9A tube socket.
>> Look along at the fourth unit, you will see it has the tubes fitted.
>
>
> Funny I thought they where valves,,,

They are indeed called valves in the UK and the Commonwealth.
But you will find that in a more global sense, the word "tube" is
widely used. In addition, except for Russian, where they use the
word "lamp" the word in most languages translates to tube and not
valve (which is a device to restrict liquid flow)

Tubes are things water runs
> through....

No, they are pipes.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 07:09 AM

"George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Iain Churches said to The Big ****:
>
>> >> And Bach died in 1750. Does that detract from his greatness?
>> >> I worked with BG when I was a very young man. It was an
>> >> unforgettable experience.
>
>> > Very nice but relevant to life in 2007 how?
>
>> For me, quite simply by building experience, and a recorded
>> repertoire.
>
>> Everyone in jazz knows of Benny Goodman, and to have worked
>> with the man is a great honour. Clarinet students today
>> listen and study his work, just as saxophone students study the
>> work of Charlie Parker who died in 1955, and jazz composers
>> and arrangers study Ellington who died in 1972. That kind of
>> genius is timeless. That is how it is relevant to 2007.
>
> Your point is quite right, and the wisdom of it is apparent even to
> non-productionoids (most of RAO).
>
> However, you're "debating" with someone who has repeatedly pooh-poohed
> music as a reference for audio.
>
> "Music is irrelevant to audio."
> A. Krooger (1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006)

George. I can see that you, and many others, are right.
I could be spending my time in a much more productive way.
And now that he has teamed up with the anonymous dyslectic
Bassett, there is just no hope:-)

Let's forget those two, and talk about audio.
Best regards
Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 07:22 AM

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> On 12 Sep, 15:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>>
>>
>>
>>> > In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.
>>>
>>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>>
>> nice friend you got, arny.
>> DId you meet him in church this past sunday?
>>
>
> No he ****'in didn't, so mind your business Cum Stain,

Bassett. Is there any truth to the rumour that your are in the
running for the position of Minister of Culture in Australia?

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 07:23 AM

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On 12 Sep, 15:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>
>
>
>> > In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.
>>
>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>
> nice friend you got, arny.
> DId you meet him in church this past sunday?

Clyde. I am happy to see Bassett and Arny arm in arm.
But, sadly, Bassett is a stark contrast to Pinkie, who
was well educated and literate.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 07:30 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>
>
>> Cut your production by 90%.
>
> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
> justification for your weirdness.

But doing much less you can do it much better.
>
>> You need be well-versed in the
>> field in which you are working, be it Baroque, classical, pop,
>> jazz or whatever.
>
> Working on it. I've got an in-house guy with a PhD in music to help me.

Excellent. That's very good news.
Step 2. Keep your mouth shut and listen to the man.
Learn from him. Also, get yourself enrolled as a recording arts
student. Level 1. and take it from there.
>
>> You need to know the repertoire.
> I don't get to choose that.

You miss the point. You need to know the repertoire.
>
>> You need to pay attention to detail.
>
> Been there, done that and in many ways you'll never understand for lack of
> practical experience.

You may have been there, but you cannot make the same mistakes
over and over again.
>
>> In your case, where you cannot afford
>> the services of a professional producer, you need to be constantly
>> thinking not only about the technical but also the musical aspects
>> of the performance.
>
> I leave that to the PhD who works with the musicians.
That is the incorrect approach. You are working as a close-nit
team. Please try to inderstand that.
>
>
> I rarely have the luxury of even a mediocre acoustic, so Iain your advice
> is worthless.

The advice, which any professional will give you, is
invaluable. You need to build a reference, and you cannot
do this by listening to your own (in your case) poor
recordings.
>
>> You are doing your church a great disservice by passing off
>> such shoddy work.
>
> I've produced about 400 hours of work for my church. How much of it have
> you heard?

Not too much. Thankfully.
>
>> Shame on you! If, on the day of Judgement
>> God turns out to have perfect pitch, you and your band of
>> tambourine bashers will be in real trouble:-)
>
>> Take much more care, with infinitely more forward planning, for
>> each project.
>
> Planning is another thing that is pretty limited by the context. At the
> earliest, I know the song selection 4 days before the day of recording.

I am talking about technical forward planning not reperetoire.

>> Have higher standards.
>
> If I had higher standards for many things, I'd be of zero service to my
> market.

Better is better, even though you work for your church for nothing.

>
>> Forget your "Been there, done
>> that" You may have been there, but you did nothing at all of any
>> merit.
>
> So what percentage of the 400 or so hours of recordings that I've made in
> the past 4-5 years have you heard, Iain?

I have heard enough to tell me (with reference to the work of
first year students) that you don't have a clue at the moment.
That's a pity, because I get the feeling that recording is something
close to your heart.

Mr.T

September 13th 07, 08:17 AM

"roughplanet" > wrote in message
u...
> still limits his involvement to the occassional snipe from the sidelines
> :-).

Obviously.

MrT.

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 08:27 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> On 12 Sep, 15:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> > In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.
>>>>
>>>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>>>
>>> nice friend you got, arny.
>>> DId you meet him in church this past sunday?
>>>
>>
>> No he ****'in didn't, so mind your business Cum Stain,
>
> Bassett. Is there any truth to the rumour that your are in the
> running for the position of Minister of Culture in Australia?

You got that right, and we might get you for technicial director,
You could be in charge of everything unimportant.
But then your blowing your trumpit, quite well were you are, So
the exercise would be a complete waste of your valuable time. So
you just stay where you are and blow your mates instead.

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 08:28 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> On 12 Sep, 15:41, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>>
>>
>>
>>> > In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.
>>>
>>> Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.
>>
>> nice friend you got, arny.
>> DId you meet him in church this past sunday?
>
> Clyde. I am happy to see Bassett and Arny arm in arm.
> But, sadly, Bassett is a stark contrast to Pinkie, who
> was well educated and literate.

Educated enough to drop you on your arse Poofter boy

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 08:31 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> i.fi...
>>>
>>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Iain Churches said:
>>>>
>>>>> >> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>>>
>>>>> > Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>>>>
>>>>> My workshop.
>>>>
>>>> Don't those open boxes get dusty?
>>>
>>> The dust contributes to the retro sound:-) They are all tested
>>> and await documentation in a couple of days they will have their
>>> top panels fitted, and be ready for delivery.
>>>
>>> You can see a ready one at:
>>>
>>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/02A.jpg
>>>
>>> The separate psu has two DC outputs, and can also power
>>> a tube vinyl stage, designed and built in the same format.
>>
>> First of all Stupid, you need to get your terminology right.
>> it's a Phono stage.
>
> The unit is called TVS, the monogram for Tube Vinyl
> Stage.
>

Well that tells us everything, your not real bright, investing in
dead technoligy. Next thing we know your'll be inventing an
analogue scrambler, or a hi-end lazer disc player

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 08:40 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> ti.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ti.fi...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
>>>>>>>> amount of ONE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>>>>
>>>>> My workshop. Pics of which were posted on RAT (in a thread to which
>>>>> you posted) Come and take a look for yourself -any time.
>>>>
>>>> Coordinated lies are still lies. ;-)
>>>
>>> Come and take a look. The offer still stands.
>>>>
>>>>> Pics of your amp projects would be of great interest.
>>>>
>>>> Check Behringer's web site for their A500. I can't afford the time to
>>>> personally build a common kind of wheel.
>>>
>>> So are saying you designed and built the Behringer A500? LOL
>>>
>>> That's the unit which according to the local agent is not worthwhile
>>> to repair. They put them in the bin and give the client a new one!
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
>>>>>> closest chassis. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>> Blind as well as stupid? :-))
>>>>
>>>> At worst, victimized by a poor quality jpg.
>>>
>>> You are indeed quite mad. It's a B9A tube socket.
>>> Look along at the fourth unit, you will see it has the tubes fitted.
>>
>>
>> Funny I thought they where valves,,,
>
> They are indeed called valves in the UK and the Commonwealth.
> But you will find that in a more global sense, the word "tube" is
> widely used. In addition, except for Russian, where they use the
> word "lamp" the word in most languages translates to tube and not
> valve (which is a device to restrict liquid flow)
>
> Tubes are things water runs
>> through....
>
> No, they are pipes.

Tube is an american distortion of the english language, and they
distort most things sooner or later. but your a Pommy, so you
should really embrace your english language. .

But I know you would bite,, That's why I posted it, A bit like
putting down cheese , and waiting for the Rat to bite.
You really are very predictable, and gullible to boot.

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 08:58 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> Iain Churches said to The Big ****:
>>
>>> >> And Bach died in 1750. Does that detract from his greatness?
>>> >> I worked with BG when I was a very young man. It was an
>>> >> unforgettable experience.
>>
>>> > Very nice but relevant to life in 2007 how?
>>
>>> For me, quite simply by building experience, and a recorded
>>> repertoire.
>>
>>> Everyone in jazz knows of Benny Goodman, and to have worked
>>> with the man is a great honour. Clarinet students today
>>> listen and study his work, just as saxophone students study the
>>> work of Charlie Parker who died in 1955, and jazz composers
>>> and arrangers study Ellington who died in 1972. That kind of
>>> genius is timeless. That is how it is relevant to 2007.
>>
>> Your point is quite right, and the wisdom of it is apparent even to
>> non-productionoids (most of RAO).
>>
>> However, you're "debating" with someone who has repeatedly pooh-poohed
>> music as a reference for audio.
>>
>> "Music is irrelevant to audio."
>> A. Krooger (1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006)
>
>
> George. I can see that you, and many others, are right.
> I could be spending my time in a much more productive way.
> And now that he has teamed up with the anonymous dyslectic
> Bassett, there is just no hope:-)
>
> Let's forget those two, and talk about audio.
> Best regards
> Iain
Well there we go, the only bloke churches can talk to, is on
everyone else's kill file list.
Now what does that tell us...

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 09:17 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message >
>>> Now you are back to lowest common denominators
>>> again Arny. Is that all you understand? What interests
>>> me here is not mass sales. The number of suits sold by
>>> Saville Row tailors is miniscule compared to those sold
>>> by your cheap and cheerful American mass-retail outlets.
>>> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
>>> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
>>> own a Bentley, just like the people who own a bespoke
>>> tube amp, would not change it for the world. The same
>>> applies to hand made furniture, or small volume clock
>>> and watch production. I for one am happy that there is still
>>> some demand for craftsmanship in the world.
>>>
>>> Iain
>>
>> bentley went broke and are now owned by VW
>
>
> Bentley is still built in the UK, and like the other
> prestigious marques, Aston Martin etc, have a healthy order
> book.

Aston's are owned by James Packer, after he bought the company from
Ford. and are now designed by the Jaguar devision of Ford, under
licence. In fact the latest jag's and DB series, are more or less
identicial.
Same chassis's, same engine's, same body panels, inturnal trim is
a bit different , and there is a huge price difference, if the
things got an AM badge on the front.

And your wrong about there order book, they where on the point of
going under, had it not been for Packer. They banked on the new
Vantage, but it looked like it would bomb, due to excessive
priceing, and the fact that the soft top model was highly unstable, at
speed.

Anything else you want to know just ask.. and just to end Lambo
is owned by Audi.

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 11:24 AM

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> i.fi...
>>>>
>>>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Iain Churches said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> >> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/200Series.ProdnBatch.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>> > Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My workshop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't those open boxes get dusty?
>>>>
>>>> The dust contributes to the retro sound:-) They are all tested
>>>> and await documentation in a couple of days they will have their
>>>> top panels fitted, and be ready for delivery.
>>>>
>>>> You can see a ready one at:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/02A.jpg
>>>>
>>>> The separate psu has two DC outputs, and can also power
>>>> a tube vinyl stage, designed and built in the same format.
>>>
>>> First of all Stupid, you need to get your terminology right.
>>> it's a Phono stage.
>>
>> The unit is called TVS, the monogram for Tube Vinyl
>> Stage.
>>
>
> Well that tells us everything, your not real bright, investing in
> dead technoligy. Next thing we know your'll be inventing an
> analogue scrambler, or a hi-end lazer disc player
you really should get onto some of this ***TUBE*** ****, Dunno
why anyone would want to fart around supposedly building the
stuff, when it's as cheap as ****.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?preatube&1190511094&1189677696

or this Cary,

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1194730125

This will probably go for two and half, if he's lucky,

But this tells you , just what this type of stuff is worth, and it's
bugger all.
And while there's heaps of this sort of ****, being vended, try
finding some of the better class SS gear. rare as rocking horse
****.

Arny Krueger

September 13th 07, 11:50 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> i.fi...
>>
>>
>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>>
>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
>> justification for your weirdness.

> But doing much less you can do it much better.

Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve. Doing
less isn't an option.

>>> You need be well-versed in the
>>> field in which you are working, be it Baroque, classical, pop,
>>> jazz or whatever.
>>
>> Working on it. I've got an in-house guy with a PhD in music to help me.
>
> Excellent. That's very good news.
> Step 2. Keep your mouth shut and listen to the man.

We've been working together for about 2 1/2 years. Iain we're a team - a
concept that you obviously have no understanding of. For future reference,
please understand that members of teams converse with each other. Were any
team member to clam up as you suggest, would be highly disfunctional and
indicative of a breakdown of the team.

> Learn from him. Also, get yourself enrolled as a recording arts
> student. Level 1. and take it from there.

Iain, I teach people to do that sort of thing. I keep myself updated by
reading and conferencing. I'm sure that I could teach you any number of
things about the recording arts under real-world (adverse) conditions, given
your lack of hands-on experience with the total process.

>>> You need to know the repertoire.
>> I don't get to choose that.

> You miss the point. You need to know the repertoire.

I do.

>>> You need to pay attention to detail.

>> Been there, done that and in many ways you'll never understand for lack
>> of
>> practical experience.

> You may have been there, but you cannot make the same mistakes
> over and over again.

Iain, you've solved your problem with mistakes by simply skipping over most
of the hands-on production process. Don't try to lecture me about things you
don't know as much about as I do.

>>> In your case, where you cannot afford
>>> the services of a professional producer, you need to be constantly
>>> thinking not only about the technical but also the musical aspects
>>> of the performance.

>> I leave that to the PhD who works with the musicians.

> That is the incorrect approach. You are working as a close-nit
> team. Please try to inderstand that.

If you mean do I team with the performers - sometimes that is possible and I
do it, other times its impossible and I don't even try. For example, I am
regularly tasked with recording middle and high school choirs and bands. For
8-12 hours a day I work with different groups and musical directors in 15 or
20 minute segments. Obviously I'm not working as a close-knit team with
50-odd musical directors and 1,500 different performers that I only see for
a few minutes on one day.

What I do, is team with the judges and festival director. There are only
about 6-8 of them and they work full days and half days. Mostly I work with
the most senior judges and the festival director who are there for the
duration.

See Iain, it is easy for a simple-minded, limited experience bloke like you
to spout off aphorisms. When the rubber hits the road you seem to always
come up looking like a blow-hard.

>> I rarely have the luxury of even a mediocre acoustic, so Iain your advice
>> is worthless.

> The advice, which any professional will give you, is
> invaluable.

No, its impractical. Again Iain, you are spouting off about what you know
nothing about. How many music festivals have you personally recorded out in
the field? By field I mean some church sancturary or a high school
auditorium. BTW, no rehearsals, one shot and whatever you do, that's it. By
personally recorded, I mean own all the equipment, do all the setup, push
all the buttons and turn all the knobs, personally deliver the finished
product to the end-user, and interact with said user should there be
problems with the product.

> You need to build a reference, and you cannot
> do this by listening to your own (in your case) poor
> recordings.

Iain, I've been listening to good recordings and live music for about 60
years. If I don't know what my reference sounds like by now, its never going
to happen.

>>> You are doing your church a great disservice by passing off
>>> such shoddy work.

>> I've produced about 400 hours of work for my church. How much of it have
>> you heard?

> Not too much.

Thanks for finally admitting the abject state of ignornace from which you
are speaking, Iain.

>>> Shame on you! If, on the day of Judgement
>>> God turns out to have perfect pitch, you and your band of
>>> tambourine bashers will be in real trouble:-)

>>> Take much more care, with infinitely more forward planning, for
>>> each project.

>> Planning is another thing that is pretty limited by the context. At the
>> earliest, I know the song selection 4 days before the day of recording.

> I am talking about technical forward planning not reperetoire.

Been there, done that. I've probably done more on-site recordings by
accident than you've done on purpose!

>>> Have higher standards.

>> If I had higher standards for many things, I'd be of zero service to my
>> market.

> Better is better, even though you work for your church for nothing.

No Iain, timely and at an acceptable or better quality level is the right
answer.

You talk about planning? I took my church from 5-SM57s, a cassette recorder,
and a cheap Mackie console that was broken; to more than 30 mid-grade mics,
CD and multitrack recorders, 56 channel digital console, etc., etc, in 5
years with a total expenditure of under $12K and 100% volunteer labor.

In the same time I upgraded the video and lighting systems to a similar or
greater degree. For example, when I took over the room there was no
integrated lighting control. Now, we have professional lighting fixtures
under central DMX control, all simplified to the point that we can and do
operate the system with a bright 10-year-old, I did all the operational and
installation work with volunteers I trained. I didn't do that without
vision, teamwork and planning and a lot of help from God and volunteers who
were generous with their time.

>>> Forget your "Been there, done
>>> that" You may have been there, but you did nothing at all of any
>>> merit.

Ignorance sure can speak loudly!

>> So what percentage of the 400 or so hours of recordings that I've made in
>> the past 4-5 years have you heard, Iain?

> I have heard enough to tell me (with reference to the work of
> first year students) that you don't have a clue at the moment.

Actually Iain, you can't even give a coherent description of what you heard.
LOL!

> That's a pity, because I get the feeling that recording is something
> close to your heart.

I don't even know what you heard. For all I know, it could be some forgery
you received as an email attachment from the Middiot.

bassett[_2_]

September 13th 07, 01:02 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> i.fi...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>>>
>>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
>>> justification for your weirdness.
>
>> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>
> Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve. Doing
> less isn't an option.
>
>>>> You need be well-versed in the
>>>> field in which you are working, be it Baroque, classical, pop,
>>>> jazz or whatever.
>>>
>>> Working on it. I've got an in-house guy with a PhD in music to help me.
>>
>> Excellent. That's very good news.
>> Step 2. Keep your mouth shut and listen to the man.
>
> We've been working together for about 2 1/2 years. Iain we're a team - a
> concept that you obviously have no understanding of. For future reference,
> please understand that members of teams converse with each other. Were any
> team member to clam up as you suggest, would be highly disfunctional and
> indicative of a breakdown of the team.
>
>> Learn from him. Also, get yourself enrolled as a recording arts
>> student. Level 1. and take it from there.
>
> Iain, I teach people to do that sort of thing. I keep myself updated by
> reading and conferencing. I'm sure that I could teach you any number of
> things about the recording arts under real-world (adverse) conditions,
> given your lack of hands-on experience with the total process.
>
>>>> You need to know the repertoire.
>>> I don't get to choose that.
>
>> You miss the point. You need to know the repertoire.
>
> I do.
>
>>>> You need to pay attention to detail.
>
>>> Been there, done that and in many ways you'll never understand for lack
>>> of
>>> practical experience.
>
>> You may have been there, but you cannot make the same mistakes
>> over and over again.
>
> Iain, you've solved your problem with mistakes by simply skipping over
> most of the hands-on production process. Don't try to lecture me about
> things you don't know as much about as I do.
>
>>>> In your case, where you cannot afford
>>>> the services of a professional producer, you need to be constantly
>>>> thinking not only about the technical but also the musical aspects
>>>> of the performance.
>
>>> I leave that to the PhD who works with the musicians.
>
>> That is the incorrect approach. You are working as a close-nit
>> team. Please try to inderstand that.
>
> If you mean do I team with the performers - sometimes that is possible and
> I do it, other times its impossible and I don't even try. For example, I
> am regularly tasked with recording middle and high school choirs and
> bands. For 8-12 hours a day I work with different groups and musical
> directors in 15 or 20 minute segments. Obviously I'm not working as a
> close-knit team with 50-odd musical directors and 1,500 different
> performers that I only see for a few minutes on one day.
>
> What I do, is team with the judges and festival director. There are only
> about 6-8 of them and they work full days and half days. Mostly I work
> with the most senior judges and the festival director who are there for
> the duration.
>
> See Iain, it is easy for a simple-minded, limited experience bloke like
> you to spout off aphorisms. When the rubber hits the road you seem to
> always come up looking like a blow-hard.
>
>>> I rarely have the luxury of even a mediocre acoustic, so Iain your
>>> advice
>>> is worthless.
>
>> The advice, which any professional will give you, is
>> invaluable.
>
> No, its impractical. Again Iain, you are spouting off about what you know
> nothing about. How many music festivals have you personally recorded out
> in the field? By field I mean some church sancturary or a high school
> auditorium. BTW, no rehearsals, one shot and whatever you do, that's it.
> By personally recorded, I mean own all the equipment, do all the setup,
> push all the buttons and turn all the knobs, personally deliver the
> finished product to the end-user, and interact with said user should there
> be problems with the product.
>
>> You need to build a reference, and you cannot
>> do this by listening to your own (in your case) poor
>> recordings.
>
> Iain, I've been listening to good recordings and live music for about 60
> years. If I don't know what my reference sounds like by now, its never
> going to happen.
>
>>>> You are doing your church a great disservice by passing off
>>>> such shoddy work.
>
>>> I've produced about 400 hours of work for my church. How much of it have
>>> you heard?
>
>> Not too much.
>
> Thanks for finally admitting the abject state of ignornace from which you
> are speaking, Iain.
>
>>>> Shame on you! If, on the day of Judgement
>>>> God turns out to have perfect pitch, you and your band of
>>>> tambourine bashers will be in real trouble:-)
>
>>>> Take much more care, with infinitely more forward planning, for
>>>> each project.
>
>>> Planning is another thing that is pretty limited by the context. At the
>>> earliest, I know the song selection 4 days before the day of recording.
>
>> I am talking about technical forward planning not reperetoire.
>
> Been there, done that. I've probably done more on-site recordings by
> accident than you've done on purpose!
>
>>>> Have higher standards.
>
>>> If I had higher standards for many things, I'd be of zero service to my
>>> market.
>
>> Better is better, even though you work for your church for nothing.
>
> No Iain, timely and at an acceptable or better quality level is the right
> answer.
>
> You talk about planning? I took my church from 5-SM57s, a cassette
> recorder, and a cheap Mackie console that was broken; to more than 30
> mid-grade mics, CD and multitrack recorders, 56 channel digital console,
> etc., etc, in 5 years with a total expenditure of under $12K and 100%
> volunteer labor.
>
> In the same time I upgraded the video and lighting systems to a similar or
> greater degree. For example, when I took over the room there was no
> integrated lighting control. Now, we have professional lighting fixtures
> under central DMX control, all simplified to the point that we can and do
> operate the system with a bright 10-year-old, I did all the operational
> and installation work with volunteers I trained. I didn't do that without
> vision, teamwork and planning and a lot of help from God and volunteers
> who were generous with their time.
>
>
>>>> Forget your "Been there, done
>>>> that" You may have been there, but you did nothing at all of any
>>>> merit.
>
> Ignorance sure can speak loudly!
>
>>> So what percentage of the 400 or so hours of recordings that I've made
>>> in
>>> the past 4-5 years have you heard, Iain?
>
>> I have heard enough to tell me (with reference to the work of
>> first year students) that you don't have a clue at the moment.
>
> Actually Iain, you can't even give a coherent description of what you
> heard. LOL!
>
>> That's a pity, because I get the feeling that recording is something
>> close to your heart.
>
> I don't even know what you heard. For all I know, it could be some forgery
> you received as an email attachment from the Middiot.
>

don't waste your time on him, Arny. he's a bloody Prima Dona,
know's nothing about nothing, and is simply a smart arsed arrogant
****. Well that's not quite true, ****'s are useful, he is of no
use and is simply a parasite , What you might call a festering sore on
th arse of society.

Ask him, just how many SACD or DVD -A cd's he has produced, in
his colourful little career of Tea making.

And if he's so bloody successfull, how come he still needs to work,
he just compounds each lie, one on top of another. The bloke lives,
or perhaps that should be exists, in a little vacuum of his own
making... And if he's so bloody talanted, why is he living in a
dump like Finland, and not in one of the worlds recording capitals.

All we really know about the bloke is he's worked for decca, and
who knows at doing what, or how many years ago.

Clyde Slick

September 13th 07, 02:50 PM

On 12 Sep, 23:57, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

>
> > In your case, where you cannot afford
> > the services of a professional producer, you need to be constantly
> > thinking not only about the technical but also the musical aspects
> > of the performance.
>
> I leave that to the PhD who works with the musicians.
>

and yet you bragged about working alone
and chided Ian for working within a team.

>
> I rarely have the luxury of even a mediocre acoustic, so Iain your advice is
> worthless.

and yet you chided Ian for his not paying for a
good venue out of his own pocket.

>
> > You are doing your church a great disservice by passing off
> > such shoddy work.
>
> I've produced about 400 hours of work for my church. How much of it have you
> heard?
>

as much as the typical member of your church has heard.

>
> If I had higher standards for many things, I'd be of zero service to my
> market.

exactly WHAT is your 'market"?

> So what percentage of the 400 or so hours of recordings that I've made in
> the past 4-5 years have you heard, Iain?

I ordered all of them from Amazon.
I am still waiting for the package

Clyde Slick

September 13th 07, 02:52 PM

On 13 Sep, 01:58, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Iain Churches said:
>
> > >> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
> > >> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
> > >> own a Bentley,
> > > Major justification: status symbol
> > Excellent car. The only people who don't like them are
> > those that haven't got one.
>
> I'm not justifying the Krooborg's odious class envy, but shouldn't the very
> rich take a leadership role in reducing our dependence on carbon-based
> fuels?

you mean, like the rich liberals who live in large mansions
and fly private jets? you mean, people like Al Gore?

Clyde Slick

September 13th 07, 03:19 PM

On 13 Sep, 01:58, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Iain Churches said:
>
> > >> In the same way the sale of Bentleys might be small in
> > >> comparison with Toyota or Nissan, but the people who
> > >> own a Bentley,
> > > Major justification: status symbol
> > Excellent car. The only people who don't like them are
> > those that haven't got one.
>
> I'm not justifying the Krooborg's odious class envy, but shouldn't the very
> rich take a leadership role in reducing our dependence on carbon-based
> fuels?

Take a look a the top ten and dirty thirty
list of the world's most polluted sites.
not one in the usa and old Europe.
Many of them are in the former or current egalitarian utopias
of the communist world.
stop blaming the rich!!!

http://www.blacksmithinstitute.org/ten.php

Peter Wieck

September 13th 07, 03:50 PM

On Sep 13, 10:19 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:

> Take a look a the top ten and dirty thirty
> list of the world's most polluted sites.
> not one in the usa and old Europe.
> Many of them are in the former or current egalitarian utopias
> of the communist world.
> stop blaming the rich!!!

Even a blind squirrel gets the occasional nut, and this is true
enough.

Of course there are those that would argue as follows, in no
particular order:

a) We also exported the jobs along with the pollution.
b) The rich continue to draw their income from large companies.
However, the large companies have transferred their production (along
with the pollution) elsewhere.
c) The rich are staying rich by purchasing labor at $0.95/hour to
produce goods that they can sell at WalMart which pays its employees
$5.85/hour and make them jump through hoops even to get basic
benefits. (Aside: There was a study recently that showed that the
average FT-W/benefits WalMart employee could not support a family of 4
and shop at WalMart on one salary).
d) The rich may create the jobs, but where are they creating them?

There are equally short answers to the above: Europe seems to have
welfare states, clean air, yet still make goods and sell services and
have health care internally and survive. And also take longer
vacations and have generally better educational systems at least in
terms of measured accomplishment. How much longer this will last is a
separate discussion.

Large companies do what they need to do to survive. The alternative to
say.... Mattel manufacturing in China is to go bankrupt as for damned
sure Hasbro or Tomy will crush them. Sure boutique manufacturers in
Germany or France or Sweden, or even the US will do fine... but their
sales in 10 years equal what Mattel does in 10 hours.

If we did not purchase those 'cheap' goods from the Pacific Rim as
fast or faster than they can be made, they wouldn't be made, period.
This goes for everything from toothpicks to cars. And if there were a
legitimate (vs.theoretical whining) demand for US-made goods at a
sustainable cost such that the makers could support their families on
those earnings, they would be made here. Period.

The rich want to stay that way. And many want to be just like them...
Not a difficult concept to understand. So, they will protect what they
have quite fiercely at times. Again, not a difficult concept to
understand.

Don't get me wrong for one single hummingbird heartbeat. There are the
rich, there are the poor, there are those somewhere in between... the
nuts in the nutcracker, if you will. Very few are "deprived" because
they are "depraved" and very few are rich because they are idle
thieves. I and my family am doing quite well, thank you, with an
assured retirement (in some years yet) in reasonable comfort. But my
wife and I have worked for well over 30 years and some to go to get
there. We count ourselves lucky that we have had and still have our
pick of jobs so it has been more fun than not... but we are by no
means unusual.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 05:15 PM

Jenn

September 13th 07, 05:29 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> > ti.fi...
> >>
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >>> i.fi...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
> >>>
> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
> >>> justification for your weirdness.
> >
> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
> >
> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve. Doing
> > less isn't an option.
>
> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"

I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
I've paid a price.

The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
such festivals.

I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.

So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.

George M. Middius

September 13th 07, 05:29 PM

Clyde Slick said:

> > I leave that to the PhD who works with the musicians.

> and yet you bragged about working alone
> and chided Ian for working within a team.

Not to mention Krooger's paralyzing fear of musicians who have PhDs.

George M. Middius

September 13th 07, 05:30 PM

Clyde Slick said:

> > I'm not justifying the Krooborg's odious class envy, but shouldn't the very
> > rich take a leadership role in reducing our dependence on carbon-based
> > fuels?

> you mean, like the rich liberals who live in large mansions
> and fly private jets? you mean, people like Al Gore?

I'm sorry he let you down.

George M. Middius

September 13th 07, 05:31 PM

Iain Churches said:

> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve. Doing
> > less isn't an option.

> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"

Except when the Bug Eater is in town.

Arny Krueger

September 13th 07, 06:24 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..

> I have ben talking to you about the team concept in recording for longer
> than I care to remember.

Blather on about common knowlege here, if that's what you want to do Iain.

> It is the only way to make anything decent.

Not true.

> The team does not have to be large, but the level of expertise must be
> high.

Whatever that means when you're part of the team, Iain.

> For future reference,
>> please understand that members of teams converse with each other. Were
>> any
>> team member to clam up as you suggest, would be highly disfunctional and
>> indicative of a breakdown of the team.

> I am telling you to listen to this man, who probably knows a great
> deal more about music than you do.

Iain, you are really fun. I wrote that paragraph!

>>> Learn from him. Also, get yourself enrolled as a recording arts
>>> student. Level 1. and take it from there.

>> Iain, I teach people to do that sort of thing. I keep myself updated by
>> reading and conferencing. I'm sure that I could teach you any number of
>> things about the recording arts under real-world (adverse) conditions,
>> given your lack of hands-on experience with the total process.

> You teach it? !!!! God help us all. Your work is worse than
> anything I have heard from a 1st year student.
> You should enrol at Level 1.

Iain, you should spend some time in the real world.

>> Iain, you've solved your problem with mistakes by simply skipping over
>> most of the hands-on production process. Don't try to lecture me about
>> things you don't know as much about as I do.

> I am talking about the proper methodology for making decent recordings.

...which are well-know.

> Just think, for a minute Arny of the potential. How many Baptists are
> there
> un the USA? Imagine that you had a well recorded CD, nicely presented
> and packaged. You could probably sell 10 000 copies without too much
> trouble. That's USD 200 000 gross for your church. Much more than you
> will ever get by passing round the collection plate. Then follows income
> from performance and copyright. The Mormons can do it, so why can't
> the Baptists:-)))

Baptists do, and unbeknownst to you there's a big market for recordings of
religious sounds, the music being played by skilled musicians.

The thing you don't get Iain is that the musicians I work with are amateurs,
and not exceptional ones. Most people who listen to my recordings are very
pleased with the instrument sounds, but take issue with the skills of the
singers.

>> Actually Iain, you can't even give a coherent description of what you
>> heard. LOL!

> We have discussed it previously..

Yawn.

>>> That's a pity, because I get the feeling that recording is something
>>> close to your heart.

>> I don't even know what you heard. For all I know, it could be some
>> forgery
>> you received as an email attachment from the Middiot.

> No as I have told you, it was something posted in an URL which was
> downloaded and sent to me as an e-mail attachment. I asked you
> about it (on UKRA IIRC) and you admitted it was your work.
> So don't try to push the blame on to George, I am sure he
> would be much better at recording than you will ever be.

Yawn.

> There seems little point in continuing this conversation with you, as
> you are intent on continuing on your easy path of mediocrity.

Iain, you really don't get it, do you? Not everybody gets to record top
musicians in top halls. The quality of the acoustic source can be the major
limiting factor. That's not an excuse to slack off, but it does put a cap on
the overall sonic quality of the results. However, there's a small but
steady demand for these recordings because of their personal interest to a
small group of people.

Arny Krueger

September 13th 07, 06:28 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...

> The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
> very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
> recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
> themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
> in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
> the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
> and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
> such festivals.

I'm also told that school music directors use the recordings as teaching
aids, to help the students sound like when they do good or less good.

> I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
> non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
> appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.

Most of the people who listen to my recordings from church either want to
listen to the sermon or are shut-ins who want to hear the services that they
are forced to miss due to health issues. I have produced collections of
music that many have purchased from the church, presumably because they have
a sentimental attachment to the specific performances and/or performers.

> So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.

Thanks!

Jenn

September 13th 07, 06:32 PM

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
> > such festivals.
>
> I'm also told that school music directors use the recordings as teaching
> aids, to help the students sound like when they do good or less good.

Fer sure.

>
> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>
> Most of the people who listen to my recordings from church either want to
> listen to the sermon or are shut-ins who want to hear the services that they
> are forced to miss due to health issues. I have produced collections of
> music that many have purchased from the church, presumably because they have
> a sentimental attachment to the specific performances and/or performers.

Yep, typical and important work, IMV.

>
> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>
> Thanks!

Clyde Slick

September 13th 07, 07:20 PM

On 13 Sep, 17:50, Peter Wieck > wrote:
> On Sep 13, 10:19 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > Take a look a the top ten and dirty thirty
> > list of the world's most polluted sites.
> > not one in the usa and old Europe.
> > Many of them are in the former or current egalitarian utopias
> > of the communist world.
> > stop blaming the rich!!!
>
> Even a blind squirrel gets the occasional nut, and this is true
> enough.
>
> Of course there are those that would argue as follows, in no
> particular order:
>
> a) We also exported the jobs along with the pollution.
> b) The rich continue to draw their income from large companies.
> However, the large companies have transferred their production (along
> with the pollution) elsewhere.
> c) The rich are staying rich by purchasing labor at $0.95/hour to
> produce goods that they can sell at WalMart which pays its employees
> $5.85/hour and make them jump through hoops even to get basic
> benefits. (Aside: There was a study recently that showed that the
> average FT-W/benefits WalMart employee could not support a family of 4
> and shop at WalMart on one salary).
> d) The rich may create the jobs, but where are they creating them?
>

many of these sites were not polluted by Western capitalists,
exporting
the 'dirty work'.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 07:22 PM

"George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Iain Churches said:
>
>> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
>> > Doing
>> > less isn't an option.
>
>> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
>> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>
> Except when the Bug Eater is in town.

"Any", George, "Any" :-))

>
>

Clyde Slick

September 13th 07, 07:24 PM

On 13 Sep, 19:30, George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net>
wrote:
> Clyde Slick said:
>
> > > I'm not justifying the Krooborg's odious class envy, but shouldn't the very
> > > rich take a leadership role in reducing our dependence on carbon-based
> > > fuels?
> > you mean, like the rich liberals who live in large mansions
> > and fly private jets? you mean, people like Al Gore?
>
> I'm sorry he let you down.

i voted for him in the 92 primary

Clyde Slick

September 13th 07, 07:27 PM

On 13 Sep, 20:24, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

>
> Baptists do, and unbeknownst to you there's a big market for recordings of
> religious sounds, the music being played by skilled musicians.
>

the market would be for recordings of religious 'music, Arny, not
religious 'sounds.

maybe someday you will comprehend the difference
between 'music' and 'sounds'.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 07:27 PM

"George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Clyde Slick said:
>
>> > I leave that to the PhD who works with the musicians.
>
>> and yet you bragged about working alone
>> and chided Iain for working within a team.
>
> Not to mention Krooger's paralyzing fear of musicians who have PhDs.
>
What worries me in all this, is that Arny now claims he
is teaching others. It may take thedse poor souls years to
unlearn what Arny has "taught" them.

Peter Wieck

September 13th 07, 07:29 PM

On Sep 13, 1:30 pm, ScottW > wrote:
> On Sep 13, 7:50 am, Peter Wieck > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 13, 10:19 am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > Take a look a the top ten and dirty thirty
> > > list of the world's most polluted sites.
> > > not one in the usa and old Europe.
> > > Many of them are in the former or current egalitarian utopias
> > > of the communist world.
> > > stop blaming the rich!!!
>
> > Even a blind squirrel gets the occasional nut, and this is true
> > enough.
>
> > Of course there are those that would argue as follows, in no
> > particular order:
>
> > a) We also exported the jobs along with the pollution.
>
> Nice to see yourself include in that decision process by
> expecting reasonable returns for your IRA and 401K
> investments.
>
> > b) The rich continue to draw their income from large companies.
> > However, the large companies have transferred their production (along
> > with the pollution) elsewhere.
>
> It's not just the "rich" dictating this. Its the entire free market
> system
> of competitive capital investment that rewards maximum profits
> and punishes poorer performance.
>
> > c) The rich are staying rich by purchasing labor at $0.95/hour to
> > produce goods that they can sell at WalMart which pays its employees
> > $5.85/hour and make them jump through hoops even to get basic
> > benefits.
>
> So is the school teachers and janitors pension plans.
>
> >(Aside: There was a study recently that showed that the
> > average FT-W/benefits WalMart employee could not support a family of 4
> > and shop at WalMart on one salary).
>
> So obviously the average FT-W/benefits Walmart position should
> not be considered a career for the average head of household,
> but it is a reasonable second income or non-head of household
> position.

Um... if all that many "career" type jobs were available, this might
be an apt sentiment. However, you will need to consider that it is by
no means unusual for the "head of household" to have two jobs and the
"second income" to have the same. Between the three FTEs, they might
be doing OK, but that is a precarious situation to maintain.

> > d) The rich may create the jobs, but where are they creating them?
>
> Investors create jobs, rich ones and poor ones and they all want
> the same thing. As much return on their investment as they can
> get.

Yep. And just push yet more jobs off-shore.

> > There are equally short answers to the above: Europe seems to have
> > welfare states, clean air, yet still make goods and sell services and
> > have health care internally and survive.
>
> and what is different? Their rich people have a different attitude
> or do their governments have different trade policies?

Well, as it happens, their trade policies are pretty similar to ours.
And within their market, as open as ours. And their rich are no
different from ours.

>
> > And also take longer
> > vacations and have generally better educational systems at least in
> > terms of measured accomplishment. How much longer this will last is a
> > separate discussion.
>
> > Large companies do what they need to do to survive.
>
> Bingo.
>
> > The alternative to
> > say.... Mattel manufacturing in China is to go bankrupt as for damned
> > sure Hasbro or Tomy will crush them.
>
> We could dump the WTO and tell China to go pound sand.....

Which would accomplish what? Keep in mind that this country does not
make a single LCD screen at any level, even for our own fighter planes
and Boeing Commercial jets. Just one persnickety example. Of course,
in that case, China would call our debts (cash out of their US
securities and dump their cash reserves)... Can you say DEPRESSION?

> > Sure boutique manufacturers in
> > Germany or France or Sweden, or even the US will do fine... but their
> > sales in 10 years equal what Mattel does in 10 hours.
>
> > If we did not purchase those 'cheap' goods from the Pacific Rim as
> > fast or faster than they can be made, they wouldn't be made, period.
> > This goes for everything from toothpicks to cars. And if there were a
> > legitimate (vs.theoretical whining) demand for US-made goods at a
> > sustainable cost such that the makers could support their families on
> > those earnings, they would be made here. Period.
>
> BS...the demand for US goods at "sustainable cost" vaporizes in the
> face of lower cost alternatives.
> We need our government to enact reasonable fair trade policy,
> not advocate exportation of our manufacturing base at the
> rate of a factory a day.

Twaddle. Very large US-based manufacturers survive just fine, and any
number of overseas makers are coming here to manufacture. Examples
include Caterpillar, Case, Hyundai, Freightliner (Daimler Benz), Mack
Trucks (Volvo, formerly Renault) and others. GE, Maytag... The list
goes on. Fair Trade isn't. Consumers drive the market and the choices
are to penalize the consumer or penalize inefficient or high-cost
suppliers. If Euro and Japanese carmakers who pay just as many wages
and equal legacy costs (just very differently) to any US maker can
still sell cars and make money in the US, yet do not want to buy our
cars (no surprise there) very much, that would have nothing to do with
trade policy. And Americans are quite capable of building a damned
fine car. Just few from the "Big Three" for some reason that I really
cannot fathom given the chances and time they have had.

Joe Consumer is simply not prepared to subsidize his neighbor's job
and buy products at anything from 30% to 500% more than what he can
get by going off-shore.

> > The rich want to stay that way. And many want to be just like them...
> > Not a difficult concept to understand. So, they will protect what they
> > have quite fiercely at times. Again, not a difficult concept to
> > understand.

> And then by benefit of your retirement plans and investments,
> you're one of the rich driving the push for maximum profits
> and maximum "shareholder value".
> The idea that you're different from the rich and therefore
> less to blame is unrealistic.

Never avoided the blame. Just the descriptive of "rich". I choose not
to live as the typical Bolivian (Bolivia has about a 1:1 relationship
between population and consumption, the United States is ~5:1). But I
am acutely aware that the rest of the world, including China and India
wishes to eat our lunch. They have gotten a good share of our dinner
and snacks and after lunch they will start on breakfast without any
apologies at all. Keep in mind that if China and India consumed energy
at the same rate we did (inclusive of oil, gas, nuclear and so forth),
they would use something on the order of 180% of the *total* world
supply. And that is exactly where they want to be.

We have a choice in this country. We can be smarter, faster, better
educated and more productive than our competitors, or we can slide
quietly into third-world oblivion. Take your pick.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Peter Wieck

September 13th 07, 07:52 PM

On Sep 13, 2:20 pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:

> many of these sites were not polluted by Western capitalists,
> exporting
> the 'dirty work'.- Hide quoted text -

Of course not. But the 'dirty work' fled to the unregulated areas.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

George M. Middius

September 13th 07, 08:36 PM

Iain Churches said:

> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"

> > Except when the Bug Eater is in town.

> "Any", George, "Any" :-))

Scared you, eh? :-)

George M. Middius

September 13th 07, 08:39 PM

Iain Churches said:

>
> > Not to mention Krooger's paralyzing fear of musicians who have PhDs.

> What worries me in all this, is that Arny now claims he
> is teaching others. It may take thedse poor souls years to
> unlearn what Arny has "taught" them.

Arnii has explained his "teaching" in more detail on RAO. It involves
"Sunday school" (i.e. religious indoctrination) and "basement training
sessions with youths" (we don't speak of the real meaning).

--

"Music is irrelevant to audio."
A. Krooger (1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006)

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 09:16 PM

"George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Iain Churches said:
>
>> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
>> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>
>> > Except when the Bug Eater is in town.
>
>> "Any", George, "Any" :-))
>
> Scared you, eh? :-)

No. I keep a giant spider in a tea-chest under my bed:-)

I use a Scandi keyboard, in three languages, and type at the
speed of sound. Apologies for any typos.
My syntax is usually quite good though, innit:-)

Iain

George M. Middius

September 13th 07, 09:28 PM

Iain Churches said:

> >> >> You don't "serve ant market"

> >> > Except when the Bug Eater is in town.

> >> "Any", George, "Any" :-))

> > Scared you, eh? :-)

> No. I keep a giant spider in a tea-chest under my bed:-)

That won't scare off Mikey. As far as we know, he's only scared of things
he doesn't understand. Examples are the beneficial effects of a strong
central government, the free market system, and living without consuming
rage.

> I use a Scandi keyboard, in three languages, and type at the
> speed of sound. Apologies for any typos.
> My syntax is usually quite good though, innit:-)

For an Englishman, definitely. :-)

They're playing Bach's "Adagio in C" now. Quite the mournful piece.

--

"Music is irrelevant to audio."
A. Krooger (1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006)

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 09:35 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> > ti.fi...
>> >>
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >>> i.fi...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>> >>>
>> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
>> >>> justification for your weirdness.
>> >
>> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>> >
>> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
>> > Doing
>> > less isn't an option.
>>
>> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
>> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>
> I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
> I've paid a price.
>
> The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
> very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
> recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
> themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
> in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
> the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
> and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
> such festivals.
>
> I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
> non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
> appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>
> So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.

Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
so badly! I would love to come and play the cor Anglais in your
orchestra - so much so that I would come for nothing. The
problem is that I cannot play the cor Anglais:-)

You are probably in the US. Here in Scandinavia many recording
professionals are involved with an EU Youth scheme, in which we
record young gifted musicians, ensembles, and orchestras or every
genre. The technical standard expected is high. Musicians want
to be able to play their performances to other musicians without
making them cry!

Best regards
Iain

Jenn

September 13th 07, 09:37 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >> >
> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> > ti.fi...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> >>> i.fi...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
> >> >
> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
> >> >
> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
> >> > Doing
> >> > less isn't an option.
> >>
> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
> >
> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
> > I've paid a price.
> >
> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
> > such festivals.
> >
> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
> >
> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>
> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
> so badly! I would love to come and play the cor Anglais in your
> orchestra - so much so that I would come for nothing. The
> problem is that I cannot play the cor Anglais:-)
>
> You are probably in the US. Here in Scandinavia many recording
> professionals are involved with an EU Youth scheme, in which we
> record young gifted musicians, ensembles, and orchestras or every
> genre. The technical standard expected is high. Musicians want
> to be able to play their performances to other musicians without
> making them cry!
>
> Best regards
> Iain

I haven't heard any of Arny's work, so I can't comment on it. I asked
for some samples once, but it didn't happen.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 09:42 PM

"George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Iain Churches said:
>
>> >> >> You don't "serve ant market"
>
>> >> > Except when the Bug Eater is in town.
>
>> >> "Any", George, "Any" :-))
>
>> > Scared you, eh? :-)
>
>> No. I keep a giant spider in a tea-chest under my bed:-)
>
> That won't scare off Mikey. As far as we know, he's only scared of things
> he doesn't understand. Examples are the beneficial effects of a strong
> central government, the free market system, and living without consuming
> rage.

He certainly won't understand the spider! It will have him by the leg before
he can say "double blind test"
>
> They're playing Bach's "Adagio in C" now. Quite the mournful piece.

Wonderful. I have the Leopold Stokowsky transcription.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 13th 07, 09:53 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> . ..
>> >> >
>> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> > ti.fi...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >>> i.fi...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed
>> >> >>> as a
>> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
>> >> >
>> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>> >> >
>> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
>> >> > Doing
>> >> > less isn't an option.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
>> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>> >
>> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
>> > I've paid a price.
>> >
>> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
>> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
>> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
>> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>> > contests,
>> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>> > such festivals.
>> >
>> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>> >
>> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>>
>> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
>> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
>> so badly! I would love to come and play the cor Anglais in your
>> orchestra - so much so that I would come for nothing. The
>> problem is that I cannot play the cor Anglais:-)
>>
>> You are probably in the US. Here in Scandinavia many recording
>> professionals are involved with an EU Youth scheme, in which we
>> record young gifted musicians, ensembles, and orchestras or every
>> genre. The technical standard expected is high. Musicians want
>> to be able to play their performances to other musicians without
>> making them cry!
>>
>> Best regards
>> Iain
>
> I haven't heard any of Arny's work, so I can't comment on it. I asked
> for some samples once, but it didn't happen.

Count yourself blessed:-)

I apologise if I seem to be hard on him.
I find his sanctimonious "been there, done that"
attitude uningratiating to say the least. Recording,
like any other profession, demands study and
hard work which needs to be taken very seriously.
There are no short cuts even in the very simple things
that Arny does.

Jenn

September 13th 07, 09:54 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> >> . ..
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> >> > ti.fi...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> >> >>> i.fi...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed
> >> >> >>> as a
> >> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
> >> >> > Doing
> >> >> > less isn't an option.
> >> >>
> >> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
> >> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
> >> >
> >> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
> >> > I've paid a price.
> >> >
> >> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
> >> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
> >> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
> >> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
> >> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
> >> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
> >> > contests,
> >> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
> >> > such festivals.
> >> >
> >> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
> >> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
> >> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
> >> >
> >> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
> >>
> >> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
> >> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
> >> so badly! I would love to come and play the cor Anglais in your
> >> orchestra - so much so that I would come for nothing. The
> >> problem is that I cannot play the cor Anglais:-)
> >>
> >> You are probably in the US. Here in Scandinavia many recording
> >> professionals are involved with an EU Youth scheme, in which we
> >> record young gifted musicians, ensembles, and orchestras or every
> >> genre. The technical standard expected is high. Musicians want
> >> to be able to play their performances to other musicians without
> >> making them cry!
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> Iain
> >
> > I haven't heard any of Arny's work, so I can't comment on it. I asked
> > for some samples once, but it didn't happen.
>
> Count yourself blessed:-)
>
> I apologise if I seem to be hard on him.
> I find his sanctimonious "been there, done that"
> attitude uningratiating to say the least. Recording,
> like any other profession, demands study and
> hard work which needs to be taken very seriously.
> There are no short cuts even in the very simple things
> that Arny does.

Oh, I certainly have my problems with Arny. I just can't comment on the
quality of his work.

Peter Wieck

September 13th 07, 10:05 PM

On Sep 13, 3:00 pm, ScottW > wrote:

> Again...you talk out both sides of your mouth advocating higher
> wages for unskilled labor demotivating the pursuit of education
> while calling to be smarter faster better educated.

Since when have I advocated higher wages? I thought that was your
shtick given your apparent desire for protective trade policies. I am
simply stating that most (but by no means all) of the available jobs
for 're-located' workers are service jobs paying at-or-near minimum
wage and with very limited benefits. Not everyone can or wants to
train to be a nurse when they are 50 and spent the last 25 years on a
production line that has shut down and moved a few thousand miles west
or south. Teachers' wages vary mightily. My wife was making $85,700
annually as a dual-masters, dual-qualified (regular and special-ed/
gifted) teacher and certified school psychologist in her district
before we went to Saudi for a few years. She is now retired by choice.
But starting wages in parts of Pennsylvania are around $27,000. And
that also requires a degree + internship + special courses such that
even those with an undergraduate degree or even a masters in
"something else" would have to go back to school for a year or so.

> Everyone is not ever going to be a college grad in the US.
> We need to have a reasonably balanced policy that does provide
> our manufacturing base some protection from slave labor rates
> in China. Otherwise, they will hang us with our own rope.

See what I mean?

No, they will hang us by their rope. Very little rope is made in the
US any more.

And don't worry about China going broke dumping US dollars. They are
more-or-less doing that now (dumping) purchasing cheap oil on world
markets. Oil is priced in dollars, and, for the record, the SAR is
pegged to the dollar. So as the Euro and the Pound and the Swiss Franc
and even the Canadian Dollar (now about at par) inflates, the price of
oil relatively declines and gets cheap. We think oil is expensive
relative to what we have been paying... the Chinese think it is cheap
as hell given what they have been paying... now that they have our
dollars.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Arny Krueger

September 13th 07, 10:08 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
.fi...
>
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...

>> The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
>> very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>> recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>> themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
>> in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
>> the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
>> and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>> such festivals.
>>
>> I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>> non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>> appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>>
>> So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.

> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
> so badly!

More proof that Iain habitually spews trash. He's never ever heard even just
one of my school festival recordings because they are totally private to the
festival and the school the choir or band comes from. The one recording he
may haev heard has a questionable lineage.

bassett[_2_]

September 14th 07, 03:16 AM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> > ti.fi...
>> >>
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >>> i.fi...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>> >>>
>> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
>> >>> justification for your weirdness.
>> >
>> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>> >
>> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
>> > Doing
>> > less isn't an option.
>>
>> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
>> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>
> I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
> I've paid a price.
>
> The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
> very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
> recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
> themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
> in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
> the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
> and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
> such festivals.
>
> I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
> non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
> appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>
> So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.

Don't waste your time Jenn, this clowns on an ego trip of epic
proportions

Then churches wailed,,, Should I take another one with me holding up
today's copy of the "Huvudstadsbladet"? LOL.

that would be a good idea, it will confirm the fact you are a
poofter.
bassett

Jenn

September 14th 07, 04:32 AM

In article >,
"bassett" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >> >
> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> > ti.fi...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> >>> i.fi...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed as a
> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
> >> >
> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
> >> >
> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
> >> > Doing
> >> > less isn't an option.
> >>
> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
> >
> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
> > I've paid a price.
> >
> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
> > such festivals.
> >
> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
> >
> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>
> Don't waste your time Jenn, this clowns on an ego trip of epic
> proportions

I'm aware of Arny's shortcomings. But the truth is the truth.

>
> Then churches wailed,,, Should I take another one with me holding up
> today's copy of the "Huvudstadsbladet"? LOL.
>
> that would be a good idea, it will confirm the fact you are a
> poofter.
> bassett

Better a "poofter" than a bigot.
>

bassett[_2_]

September 14th 07, 05:12 AM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "bassett" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> . ..
>> >> >
>> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> > ti.fi...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >>> i.fi...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed
>> >> >>> as a
>> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
>> >> >
>> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>> >> >
>> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
>> >> > Doing
>> >> > less isn't an option.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
>> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>> >
>> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
>> > I've paid a price.
>> >
>> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
>> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
>> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
>> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>> > contests,
>> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>> > such festivals.
>> >
>> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>> >
>> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>>
>> Don't waste your time Jenn, this clowns on an ego trip of epic
>> proportions
>
> I'm aware of Arny's shortcomings. But the truth is the truth.
>
>>
>> Then churches wailed,,, Should I take another one with me holding
>> up
>> today's copy of the "Huvudstadsbladet"? LOL.
>>
>> that would be a good idea, it will confirm the fact you are a
>> poofter.
>> bassett
>
> Better a "poofter" than a bigot.

Yep,, you would be safe as houses with a pillow fairy, providing it
resembled the male.
bassett

Mr.T

September 14th 07, 05:13 AM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
news:jennconductsREMOVETHIS-
> I haven't heard any of Arny's work, so I can't comment on it.

Have you heard Iain's then?
If so what part did he actually do?
If not then you already know as much about both people :-)

MrT.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 14th 07, 05:30 PM

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Sep 13, 1:53 pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> . ..
>>
>> >> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ti.fi...
>>
>> >> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>>
>> >> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >> i.fi...
>>
>> >> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>>
>> >> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently
>> >> >> >>> claimed
>> >> >> >>> as a
>> >> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
>>
>> >> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>>
>> >> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I
>> >> >> > serve.
>> >> >> > Doing
>> >> >> > less isn't an option.
>>
>> >> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>>
>> >> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the
>> >> > past
>> >> > I've paid a price.
>>
>> >> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests
>> >> > is
>> >> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>> >> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>> >> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past),
>> >> > and
>> >> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to
>> >> > remember
>> >> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>> >> > contests,
>> >> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>> >> > such festivals.
>>
>> >> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>> >> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>> >> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>>
>> >> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>>
>> >> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
>> >> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
>> >> so badly! I would love to come and play the cor Anglais in your
>> >> orchestra - so much so that I would come for nothing. The
>> >> problem is that I cannot play the cor Anglais:-)
>>
>> >> You are probably in the US. Here in Scandinavia many recording
>> >> professionals are involved with an EU Youth scheme, in which we
>> >> record young gifted musicians, ensembles, and orchestras or every
>> >> genre. The technical standard expected is high. Musicians want
>> >> to be able to play their performances to other musicians without
>> >> making them cry!
>>
>> >> Best regards
>> >> Iain
>>
>> > I haven't heard any of Arny's work, so I can't comment on it. I asked
>> > for some samples once, but it didn't happen.
>>
>> Count yourself blessed:-)
>>
>> I apologise if I seem to be hard on him.
>> I find his sanctimonious "been there, done that"
>> attitude uningratiating to say the least.
>
> But how long does it take you to figure that out?
> I'm thinking the cans are bit too tight based on the
> length of this thread.
>
>> Recording,
>> like any other profession, demands study and
>> hard work which needs to be taken very seriously.
>
> Why? You're being more than a bit sanctimonious
> yourself.

Hi Scott. I apologise if you got that impression. It
was not my intention. Perhaps my English is a little
formal and old fashioned. It has not been my first
language for many a year.

But I do get a little tired of people like Bassett and
Mr T (neither of whom probably know a French
horn from a frying pan) sniping from behind the
protection of their anonymity and bogus
e-mail addresses.

As for dear old Arns. It doesn't really matter a silver
sixpence either way. If he wants to continue to turn out
mediocre recordings by the mile, then so be it. A colleague
of mine calls it prostitution of the recorded arts. It will
take many years for those under Arny's tutelage to unlearn
what he has taught them.

> Not as if the survival of the world or even
> a single person depends on the recording profession.

You are absolutely right. Horticulture is the only thing
that is important, and even that is not very important. I
planted five oak saplings a couple of years ago. They are
now 25cms high. I am going to build a Viking long-boat:-)
>
>> There are no short cuts even in the very simple things
>> that Arny does.
>
> Bob is going to be so unhappy.

That's a totally different story:-)

Regards
Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 14th 07, 05:54 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "bassett" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> . ..
>> >> >
>> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> > ti.fi...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >>> i.fi...
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed
>> >> >>> as a
>> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
>> >> >
>> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>> >> >
>> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
>> >> > Doing
>> >> > less isn't an option.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
>> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>> >
>> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
>> > I've paid a price.
>> >
>> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
>> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
>> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
>> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>> > contests,
>> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>> > such festivals.
>> >
>> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>> >
>> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>>
>> Don't waste your time Jenn, this clowns on an ego trip of epic
>> proportions
>
> I'm aware of Arny's shortcomings. But the truth is the truth.
>
>>
>> Then churches wailed,,, Should I take another one with me holding
>> up
>> today's copy of the "Huvudstadsbladet"? LOL.
>>
>> that would be a good idea, it will confirm the fact you are a
>> poofter.
>> bassett
>
> Better a "poofter" than a bigot.

Jenn.
Basset seems to have a fixation with homosexuality. Perhaps it is
the effect of the all those sheep and pigs with which he spends
his time. I wonder if he has a similar phobia for the black
races and those of the Jewish faith? What about a black,
Jewish tube amp builder???

The factual content of his posts is about on the same level as
his spelling. I have been happily married to a very beautiful
and intelligent Scandinavian lady for fifteen years.

Regards
Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 14th 07, 07:08 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >> .
>> >> com
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> >> . ..
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >> > ti.fi...
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> >> >> ...
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >> >>> i.fi...
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently
>> >> >> >>> claimed
>> >> >> >>> as a
>> >> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I
>> >> >> > serve.
>> >> >> > Doing
>> >> >> > less isn't an option.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>> >> >
>> >> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the
>> >> > past
>> >> > I've paid a price.
>> >> >
>> >> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests
>> >> > is
>> >> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>> >> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>> >> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past),
>> >> > and
>> >> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to
>> >> > remember
>> >> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>> >> > contests,
>> >> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>> >> > such festivals.
>> >> >
>> >> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>> >> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>> >> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>> >> >
>> >> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>> >>
>> >> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
>> >> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
>> >> so badly! I would love to come and play the cor Anglais in your
>> >> orchestra - so much so that I would come for nothing. The
>> >> problem is that I cannot play the cor Anglais:-)
>> >>
>> >> You are probably in the US. Here in Scandinavia many recording
>> >> professionals are involved with an EU Youth scheme, in which we
>> >> record young gifted musicians, ensembles, and orchestras or every
>> >> genre. The technical standard expected is high. Musicians want
>> >> to be able to play their performances to other musicians without
>> >> making them cry!
>> >>
>> >> Best regards
>> >> Iain
>> >
>> > I haven't heard any of Arny's work, so I can't comment on it. I asked
>> > for some samples once, but it didn't happen.
>>
>> Count yourself blessed:-)
>>
>> I apologise if I seem to be hard on him.
>> I find his sanctimonious "been there, done that"
>> attitude uningratiating to say the least. Recording,
>> like any other profession, demands study and
>> hard work which needs to be taken very seriously.
>> There are no short cuts even in the very simple things
>> that Arny does.
>
> Oh, I certainly have my problems with Arny. I just can't comment on the
> quality of his work.

I have not really followed your discussion, but if you
are arguing from a musical perspective, as you probably
are, then you have an uphill fight. Arny does not know a
French horn from a frying pan:-)

Regards
Iain

George M. Middius

September 14th 07, 07:51 PM

Scooter, I'm withholding the well-deserved ridicule in favor of giving you
an opportunity to explain yourself.

> > It will take many years for those under Arny's tutelage
> > to unlearn what he has taught them.

> I seriously doubt he is doing more harm than good
> offering a service to underfunded and ill-equipped
> schools and churches whose alternative is no recordings.

Iain made a valid point about the quality of Krooger's "teaching". You
simply ignored that point, instead choosing to grasp at a wispy straw of
rationalization to defend Krooger's alleged helpfulness. This kind of
"discussing" is, sad to say, typical for you. To a normal person, you seem
either stupid or so gripped by emotion that you're unable to address the
point in question.

At this juncture, I feel you've earned a dose of ridicule. However, in the
interest of fomenting a civilized exchange of ideas, I'd like to pose a
couple of simple questions for you:

1. Why did you ignore Iain's point?

2. Were you implicitly conceding Iain's point and attempting to justify the
damage Krooger is doing by pimping his supposed charitableness?

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 14th 07, 09:36 PM

"George M. Middius" <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Scooter, I'm withholding the well-deserved ridicule in favor of giving you
> an opportunity to explain yourself.
>
>> > It will take many years for those under Arny's tutelage
>> > to unlearn what he has taught them.
>
>> I seriously doubt he is doing more harm than good
>> offering a service to underfunded and ill-equipped
>> schools and churches whose alternative is no recordings.
>
> Iain made a valid point about the quality of Krooger's "teaching". You
> simply ignored that point, instead choosing to grasp at a wispy straw of
> rationalization to defend Krooger's alleged helpfulness. This kind of
> "discussing" is, sad to say, typical for you. To a normal person, you seem
> either stupid or so gripped by emotion that you're unable to address the
> point in question.
>
> At this juncture, I feel you've earned a dose of ridicule. However, in the
> interest of fomenting a civilized exchange of ideas, I'd like to pose a
> couple of simple questions for you:
>
> 1. Why did you ignore Iain's point?
>
> 2. Were you implicitly conceding Iain's point and attempting to justify
> the
> damage Krooger is doing by pimping his supposed charitableness?

George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools etc on a
charitable basis. As somebody pointed out, a poor
recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K. So,
it's beggar's choice, as they say.

But when we come to teaching, then the matter must,
I feel, be viewed in a totally different light.

Regards
Iain
>
>
>

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 14th 07, 09:37 PM

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 14, 9:30 am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>>
>> ps.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 13, 1:53 pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> > In article >,
>> >> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> >> . ..
>>
>> >> >> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >> >> ti.fi...
>>
>> >> >> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> >> >> >> ...
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >> >> i.fi...
>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently
>> >> >> >> >>> claimed
>> >> >> >> >>> as a
>> >> >> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
>>
>> >> >> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
>>
>> >> >> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I
>> >> >> >> > serve.
>> >> >> >> > Doing
>> >> >> >> > less isn't an option.
>>
>> >> >> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes
>> >> >> >> over
>> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
>>
>> >> >> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the
>> >> >> > past
>> >> >> > I've paid a price.
>>
>> >> >> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school
>> >> >> > contests
>> >> >> > is
>> >> >> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The
>> >> >> > resulting
>> >> >> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>> >> >> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the
>> >> >> > past),
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to
>> >> >> > remember
>> >> >> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>> >> >> > contests,
>> >> >> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in
>> >> >> > several
>> >> >> > such festivals.
>>
>> >> >> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>> >> >> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I
>> >> >> > always
>> >> >> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>>
>> >> >> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>>
>> >> >> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
>> >> >> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
>> >> >> so badly! I would love to come and play the cor Anglais in your
>> >> >> orchestra - so much so that I would come for nothing. The
>> >> >> problem is that I cannot play the cor Anglais:-)
>>
>> >> >> You are probably in the US. Here in Scandinavia many recording
>> >> >> professionals are involved with an EU Youth scheme, in which we
>> >> >> record young gifted musicians, ensembles, and orchestras or every
>> >> >> genre. The technical standard expected is high. Musicians want
>> >> >> to be able to play their performances to other musicians without
>> >> >> making them cry!
>>
>> >> >> Best regards
>> >> >> Iain
>>
>> >> > I haven't heard any of Arny's work, so I can't comment on it. I
>> >> > asked
>> >> > for some samples once, but it didn't happen.
>>
>> >> Count yourself blessed:-)
>>
>> >> I apologise if I seem to be hard on him.
>> >> I find his sanctimonious "been there, done that"
>> >> attitude uningratiating to say the least.
>>
>> > But how long does it take you to figure that out?
>> > I'm thinking the cans are bit too tight based on the
>> > length of this thread.
>>
>> >> Recording,
>> >> like any other profession, demands study and
>> >> hard work which needs to be taken very seriously.
>>
>> > Why? You're being more than a bit sanctimonious
>> > yourself.
>>
>> Hi Scott. I apologise if you got that impression. It
>> was not my intention. Perhaps my English is a little
>> formal and old fashioned. It has not been my first
>> language for many a year.
>>
>> But I do get a little tired of people like Bassett and
>> Mr T (neither of whom probably know a French
>> horn from a frying pan) sniping from behind the
>> protection of their anonymity and bogus
>> e-mail addresses.
>
> Welcome to usenet.

:-))

I am a member of a number of closed groups.
These are not moderated. The subscribers are
broadcast and recording studio people, who behaive
just as they would sitting round a large table in your
or my office discussing matters of interest. Usenet is
a completely different thing:-) But still there are several
people, particularly on RAT and UKRA whose opinions
interest me greatly.
>
>> As for dear old Arns. It doesn't really matter a silver
>> sixpence either way. If he wants to continue to turn out
>> mediocre recordings by the mile, then so be it. A colleague
>> of mine calls it prostitution of the recorded arts.
>
> Prostitutes get paid....Arny seems to be more of a slut.
>
> You sound like you have a classic case of the long studied
> hard working professional seeing the artistry of his profession
> diminished by the proliferation of easy to use recording
> technology.

The changes in the technology have indeed made the basic
tasks much easier, but the skills of balance, mix
and audio perception still have to be learned by anyone
who wants to take recording seriously. This can take a
very long time, depending upon the people under
whom you study and the opportunities that
you are given.

> You're not alone....listen to the question and answer
> session here.
>
> http://www.dplay.com/aes/blesser.html

Yes, that is a session which is referred to often.

I don't regard the technology as a threat, but embrace it.
In many respects it makes the task a lot easier. It was
not very long ago that we used to edit the 2" analogue
master, by marking with a Chinagraph pencil, and cutting
the tape with a razor blade. This task was usually carried
out, during the session, by the engineer or the 1st assistant.
It takes quite a lot of confidence in your own ability to
take a razor blade to a multitrack master. It's a pretty
tense moment in the control room. These days, digital
workstations may have 200 levels of undo:-)

Before the days of console automation, you just had to
complete a complex mix, even at 0400 hrs, if another
client with a different project was booked into the same
control room at 0900hrs. Now you can simply save
a settings, and continue at a better time witrh fresher ears.
>
>> It will
>> take many years for those under Arny's tutelage to unlearn
>> what he has taught them.
>
> I seriously doubt he is doing more harm than good
> offering a service to underfunded and ill-equipped
> schools and churches whose alternative is no recordings.

That part of his activities is laudable. But he also states that
he teaches recording (also on a volutary unpaid basis)
I find this disturbing as the work of his that I have heard
is well below the level of most first year students!

>> > Not as if the survival of the world or even
>> > a single person depends on the recording profession.
>>
>> You are absolutely right. Horticulture is the only thing
>> that is important, and even that is not very important. I
>> planted five oak saplings a couple of years ago. They are
>> now 25cms high. I am going to build a Viking long-boat:-)
>
> and by then you will be able to navigate the north passage.

Indeed. I am looking forward to it. It won't be for a while!

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 14th 07, 09:38 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> .fi...
>>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
>>> very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>>> recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>>> themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
>>> in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
>>> the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such contests,
>>> and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>>> such festivals.
>>>
>>> I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>>> non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>>> appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>>>
>>> So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>
>> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
>> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
>> so badly!
>
> More proof that Iain habitually spews trash. He's never ever heard even
> just one of my school festival recordings because they are totally private
> to the festival and the school the choir or band comes from. The one
> recording he may haev heard has a questionable lineage.

It's lineage is clear. We discussed it, and you agreed it was yours
How can it suddenly not be? You are even trying now to pass it
off on to George! Is that the act of Born Again Christian?

Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence.
I am bored with your mediocrity, Arny

George M. Middius

September 14th 07, 09:59 PM

Iain Churches said:

> I am bored with your mediocrity, Arny

Mediocre is still passing, so Arnii "wins" again.

Jenn

September 14th 07, 10:16 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "bassett" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> >> . ..
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> >> > ti.fi...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> >> >>> i.fi...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>> Cut your production by 90%.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Iain, I'm only meeting demand, which you have frequently claimed
> >> >> >>> as a
> >> >> >>> justification for your weirdness.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> But doing much less you can do it much better.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Iain, you clearly have no understanding of the market that I serve.
> >> >> > Doing
> >> >> > less isn't an option.
> >> >>
> >> >> Perhaps it was not intended as such, Arny, but the above comes over as
> >> >> sanctimonious hog-wash. You don't "serve ant market"
> >> >
> >> > I have to defend Arny a bit here, though when I've done so in the past
> >> > I've paid a price.
> >> >
> >> > The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
> >> > very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
> >> > recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
> >> > themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
> >> > in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
> >> > the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
> >> > contests,
> >> > and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
> >> > such festivals.
> >> >
> >> > I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
> >> > non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
> >> > appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
> >> >
> >> > So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
> >>
> >> Don't waste your time Jenn, this clowns on an ego trip of epic
> >> proportions
> >
> > I'm aware of Arny's shortcomings. But the truth is the truth.
> >
> >>
> >> Then churches wailed,,, Should I take another one with me holding
> >> up
> >> today's copy of the "Huvudstadsbladet"? LOL.
> >>
> >> that would be a good idea, it will confirm the fact you are a
> >> poofter.
> >> bassett
> >
> > Better a "poofter" than a bigot.
>
>
> Jenn.
> Basset seems to have a fixation with homosexuality. Perhaps it is
> the effect of the all those sheep and pigs with which he spends
> his time. I wonder if he has a similar phobia for the black
> races and those of the Jewish faith? What about a black,
> Jewish tube amp builder???

My God! What a deviant! ;-)

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 14th 07, 10:20 PM

On Sep 14, 4:16 pm, Jenn > wrote:
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:

> > Jenn.
> > Basset seems to have a fixation with homosexuality. Perhaps it is
> > the effect of the all those sheep and pigs with which he spends
> > his time. I wonder if he has a similar phobia for the black
> > races and those of the Jewish faith? What about a black,
> > Jewish tube amp builder???
>
> My God! What a deviant! ;-)

I think Sander is incapacitated right now, so we cannot ask him if
he's black or Jewish.

We know he's a deviant, though: he's Dutch.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 14th 07, 10:21 PM

On Sep 14, 4:20 pm, ScottW > wrote:

> Arny didn't say he was teaching. He was providing
> teaching aids. Its up to the teacher to determine the
> usability of his aids. You're making a big to do about
> nothing and soliciting support from the Middiot,
> one of the slimiest creatures to ever haunt usenet,
> does not advance your credibility.

LOL!

*You* are worried about 'credibility'?

LOL!

Arny Krueger

September 14th 07, 11:32 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...

> George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
> tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
> charitable basis.

Not so - it is work for pay.

> As somebody pointed out, a poor
> recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
> the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
> recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.

The schools pay the going rate.

Arny Krueger

September 14th 07, 11:38 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> .fi...
>>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
>>>> very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>>>> recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>>>> themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past), and
>>>> in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
>>>> the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>>>> contests,
>>>> and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>>>> such festivals.
>>>>
>>>> I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>>>> non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>>>> appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>>>>
>>>> So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>>
>>> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
>>> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
>>> so badly!
>>
>> More proof that Iain habitually spews trash. He's never ever heard even
>> just one of my school festival recordings because they are totally
>> private
>> to the festival and the school the choir or band comes from.

Iain has no rebuttal, so now we know that he is unapologetic when caught
lying.

Arny Krueger

September 15th 07, 12:07 AM

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 14, 3:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>
>> ti.fi...
>>
>> > George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
>> > tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
>> > charitable basis.
>>
>> Not so - it is work for pay.
>>
>> > As somebody pointed out, a poor
>> > recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
>> > the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
>> > recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
>>
>> The schools pay the going rate.
>
> I take it all back, a complaint to the school board may be in order.

To be credible, the complaint would have to come from the festival judges,
director, or the school music directors. They are the only people, besides
some students, who have ever heard the recordings.

George M. Middius

September 15th 07, 12:42 AM

Jenn

September 15th 07, 12:53 AM

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > On Sep 14, 3:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >>
> >> ti.fi...
> >>
> >> > George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
> >> > tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
> >> > charitable basis.
> >>
> >> Not so - it is work for pay.
> >>
> >> > As somebody pointed out, a poor
> >> > recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
> >> > the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
> >> > recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
> >>
> >> The schools pay the going rate.
> >
> > I take it all back, a complaint to the school board may be in order.
>
> To be credible, the complaint would have to come from the festival judges,
> director, or the school music directors. They are the only people, besides
> some students, who have ever heard the recordings.

Typically, the judges have nothing to do with the running of the
festivals. They are simply hired by the people running the festival to
adjudicate. Sometimes input is asked for.

Jenn

September 15th 07, 12:54 AM

In article om>,
Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! > wrote:

> On Sep 14, 4:16 pm, Jenn > wrote:
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
> > > Jenn.
> > > Basset seems to have a fixation with homosexuality. Perhaps it is
> > > the effect of the all those sheep and pigs with which he spends
> > > his time. I wonder if he has a similar phobia for the black
> > > races and those of the Jewish faith? What about a black,
> > > Jewish tube amp builder???
> >
> > My God! What a deviant! ;-)
>
> I think Sander is incapacitated right now, so we cannot ask him if
> he's black or Jewish.
>
> We know he's a deviant, though: he's Dutch.

Can't have THAT!

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 15th 07, 01:36 AM

On Sep 14, 4:25 pm, ScottW > wrote:

> ...I say this in no way
> to defend Arny's long history of asinine behavior.

Riiiiggggghhhhht.

Is it asinine to compare what good old Arns does with what a real
professional does?

LOL!

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 15th 07, 07:37 AM

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 14, 4:16 pm, Jenn > wrote:
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> > Jenn.
>> > Basset seems to have a fixation with homosexuality. Perhaps it is
>> > the effect of the all those sheep and pigs with which he spends
>> > his time. I wonder if he has a similar phobia for the black
>> > races and those of the Jewish faith? What about a black,
>> > Jewish tube amp builder???
>>
>> My God! What a deviant! ;-)
>
> I think Sander is incapacitated right now, so we cannot ask him if
> he's black or Jewish.´
>
> We know he's a deviant, though: he's Dutch.

And a nicer race of people you could not wish to meet.

>
>

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 15th 07, 07:55 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>> .fi...
>>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>
>>>>> The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests is
>>>>> very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>>>>> recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>>>>> themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past),
>>>>> and
>>>>> in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
>>>>> the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>>>>> contests,
>>>>> and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>>>>> such festivals.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>>>>> non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>>>>> appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>>>
>>>> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
>>>> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
>>>> so badly!
>>>
>>> More proof that Iain habitually spews trash. He's never ever heard even
>>> just one of my school festival recordings because they are totally
>>> private
>>> to the festival and the school the choir or band comes from.
>
> Iain has no rebuttal, so now we know that he is unapologetic when caught
> lying.
>

No apologies rerquired from me.
I have spoken nothing but the truth here, while you
wriggle and squirm, denying what you have previously
openly admitted was your recording. Even more odd is the
fact that you try to pass this ignominious effort on to George.

So much for the behaviour of a born-again Christian.
Shameful!

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 15th 07, 07:58 AM

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 14, 1:37 pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>>
>> That part of his activities is laudable. But he also states that
>> he teaches recording (also on a volutary unpaid basis)
>> I find this disturbing as the work of his that I have heard
>> is well below the level of most first year students!
>
> Yet you have no idea of the vintage of that work or the
> equipment used to produce it.

Incorect, Arny described precisely the equipment
he used.

Uf you thinbk that older ewquuopment is synonumous
with poor quality then you are very very mistaken.

> I suspect if I stumbled across an early sample of your
> work I too would be unimpressed.

My first recording is still available. It is entitled
"Guitar After Midnight" and features Brian
Daly with the London Studio Orchestra, conducted by
John Cameron.. The fact that it is still in catalogue
speaks for its quality.

In professional recording your tutors make sure that
you are competent in all aspects before you are
involved in anything except internal practice projects.

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 15th 07, 08:09 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> ti.fi...
>
>> George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
>> tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
>> charitable basis.
>
> Not so - it is work for pay.

Then Scott does indeed have the wrong end of the stick.
>
>> As somebody pointed out, a poor
>> recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
>> the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
>> recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
>
> The schools pay the going rate.

And you are the best they can get?

A quick search in Google, under Michigan recording studios
brings up the following list:

http://www.madmanmike.com/recording_studios_michigan.html

Without doubt, someone has an LRV (location recording vehicle)
Most companies are willing to give time for educational projects.

Perhaps there is some pseudo-religious humbug at work here.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 15th 07, 09:00 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On Sep 14, 1:37 pm, "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> That part of his activities is laudable. But he also states that
>>> he teaches recording (also on a volutary unpaid basis)
>>> I find this disturbing as the work of his that I have heard
>>> is well below the level of most first year students!
>>
>> Yet you have no idea of the vintage of that work or the
>> equipment used to produce it.

Scott. Having re-read your post, I thought it deserved
a second reply, (if only to correct my typos:-)

>
> Incorect, Arny described precisely the equipment
> he used.
>
> If you think that older equipment is synonymous
> with poor quality then you are very very mistaken.
>
>> I suspect if I stumbled across an early sample of your
>> work I too would be unimpressed.

You seem confused here, in your use of the words
"early sample" Arny claims to have made 1 000
recordings. So he is certainly not lacking in experience
(skill yes, but not experience) That is more than
most professional engineers record in a lifetime.
The concern is with quality, not quantity.

>
> My first recording is still available. It is entitled
> "Guitar After Midnight" and features Brian
> Daly with the London Studio Orchestra, conducted by
> John Cameron.. The fact that it is still in catalogue
> speaks for its quality.

It features solo acoustic guitar, with large orchestra backing,
strings, horns, woodwinds etc.
>
> In professional recording your tutors make sure that
> you are competent in all aspects before you are
> involved in anything except internal practice projects.
>
>
Iain

Arny Krueger

September 15th 07, 11:18 AM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> > On Sep 14, 3:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> ti.fi...
>> >>
>> >> > George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
>> >> > tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
>> >> > charitable basis.
>> >>
>> >> Not so - it is work for pay.
>> >>
>> >> > As somebody pointed out, a poor
>> >> > recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
>> >> > the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
>> >> > recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
>> >>
>> >> The schools pay the going rate.
>> >
>> > I take it all back, a complaint to the school board may be in order.
>>
>> To be credible, the complaint would have to come from the festival
>> judges,
>> director, or the school music directors. They are the only people,
>> besides
>> some students, who have ever heard the recordings.
>
> Typically, the judges have nothing to do with the running of the
> festivals.

Maybe in your world, but not mine.

> They are simply hired by the people running the festival to
> adjudicate.

Maybe in your world, but not mine.

At the festivals I've worked, the judges and the festival director have been
colleagues for a goodly time and work together.

Typically, the festival director has been a judge at more than a few earlier
festivals.

> Sometimes input is asked for.

Been there when it happened, which is about just about every festival.

Arny Krueger

September 15th 07, 11:20 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>
>>> George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
>>> tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
>>> charitable basis.
>>
>> Not so - it is work for pay.
>
> Then Scott does indeed have the wrong end of the stick.
>>
>>> As somebody pointed out, a poor
>>> recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
>>> the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
>>> recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
>>
>> The schools pay the going rate.
>
> And you are the best they can get?
>
> A quick search in Google, under Michigan recording studios
> brings up the following list:
>
> http://www.madmanmike.com/recording_studios_michigan.html
>
> Without doubt, someone has an LRV (location recording vehicle)
> Most companies are willing to give time for educational projects.
>
> Perhaps there is some pseudo-religious humbug at work here.

Shows what little you know about HS festivals, Iain. A recording vehicle
would be worse than useless at every festival I've worked. It would be a
vast pile of irrelevant technology and capital. All the technology that is
needed to do an excellent job fits on a hand truck quite nicely thank you!

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 15th 07, 11:20 AM

On Sep 15, 1:55 am, "Iain Churches" > wrote:

> So much for the behaviour of a born-again Christian.
> Shameful!

There are a couple of posters with no shame.

Good old Arns is one, the other one is trying very hard to be like
good old Arns.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 15th 07, 11:22 AM

On Sep 15, 5:20 am, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> Shows what little you know about HS festivals, Iain. A recording vehicle
> would be worse than useless at every festival I've worked. It would be a
> vast pile of irrelevant technology and capital. All the technology that is
> needed to do an excellent job fits on a hand truck quite nicely thank you!

So have you posted a selection of your 'work,' good old Arns?

Arny Krueger

September 15th 07, 11:22 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
ti.fi...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> ti.fi...
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>> .fi...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>>> The part of Arny's business that includes recording school contests
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> very helpful to the ensembles and their conductors. The resulting
>>>>>> recordings are sometimes the only recordings they will hear of
>>>>>> themselves (though that's probably less true now than in the past),
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> in addition to the educational value, they are a nice way to remember
>>>>>> the day, which is result of much hard work. I adjudicate such
>>>>>> contests,
>>>>>> and as a young school teacher and student, I participated in several
>>>>>> such festivals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also conducted a church choir (and directed other musical and
>>>>>> non-musical aspects of worship) at a church in the 90s, and I always
>>>>>> appreciated hearing the recordings of that part of my work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I support this aspect of Arny's work.
>>>>
>>>>> Jenn. I too support this aspect of Arny's work,and the fact that
>>>>> he does it free is commendable. The problem is that he does it
>>>>> so badly!
>>>>
>>>> More proof that Iain habitually spews trash. He's never ever heard even
>>>> just one of my school festival recordings because they are totally
>>>> private
>>>> to the festival and the school the choir or band comes from.
>>
>> Iain has no rebuttal, so now we know that he is unapologetic when caught
>> lying.
>>
>
> No apologies rerquired from me.

> I have spoken nothing but the truth here,

Iain, you've been caught in many lies, told in spite.

> while you
> wriggle and squirm, denying what you have previously
> openly admitted was your recording.

Iain, Send me the MP3 and I'll confirm or deny it.

> Even more odd is the
> fact that you try to pass this ignominious effort on to George.

Name the source of your email, and why you even needed to resort to email if
the recording is posted on the web.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 15th 07, 12:46 PM

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 14, 3:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>
>> ti.fi...
>>
>> > George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
>> > tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
>> > charitable basis.
>>
>> Not so - it is work for pay.
>>
>> > As somebody pointed out, a poor
>> > recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
>> > the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
>> > recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
>>
>> The schools pay the going rate.
>
> I take it all back, a complaint to the school board may be in order.
>
> ScottW
>

It would be interesting to turn up in an LRV at one
of Arny's recording dates, and, with the consent of the
client, make a parallel recording, to show them how
their orchestra/choir could/should sound.

They would probably start litigation against Arny for
gross misrepresentation:-)

Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 15th 07, 01:01 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article om>,
> Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! > wrote:
>
>> On Sep 14, 4:16 pm, Jenn > wrote:
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>>
>> > > Jenn.
>> > > Basset seems to have a fixation with homosexuality. Perhaps it is
>> > > the effect of the all those sheep and pigs with which he spends
>> > > his time. I wonder if he has a similar phobia for the black
>> > > races and those of the Jewish faith? What about a black,
>> > > Jewish tube amp builder???
>> >
>> > My God! What a deviant! ;-)
>>
>> I think Sander is incapacitated right now, so we cannot ask him if
>> he's black or Jewish.
>>
>> We know he's a deviant, though: he's Dutch.
>
> Can't have THAT!

Hi Jenn. Do you know the work of any of the early (C18th)
Dutch composers? They are quite wonderful. Carel Fodor,
Jean Meder, Christian Graaf, Johan Lentz, Pieter Hellendaal
are all worth a listen.

Sander has a proud trandition.

Regards
Iain

Jenn

September 15th 07, 07:29 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article om>,
> > Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 14, 4:16 pm, Jenn > wrote:
> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >>
> >> > > Jenn.
> >> > > Basset seems to have a fixation with homosexuality. Perhaps it is
> >> > > the effect of the all those sheep and pigs with which he spends
> >> > > his time. I wonder if he has a similar phobia for the black
> >> > > races and those of the Jewish faith? What about a black,
> >> > > Jewish tube amp builder???
> >> >
> >> > My God! What a deviant! ;-)
> >>
> >> I think Sander is incapacitated right now, so we cannot ask him if
> >> he's black or Jewish.
> >>
> >> We know he's a deviant, though: he's Dutch.
> >
> > Can't have THAT!
>
> Hi Jenn. Do you know the work of any of the early (C18th)
> Dutch composers? They are quite wonderful. Carel Fodor,
> Jean Meder, Christian Graaf, Johan Lentz, Pieter Hellendaal
> are all worth a listen.

I've heard of them, but just barely. I'll investigate; thanks for the
tip.

>
> Sander has a proud trandition.
>
> Regards
> Iain

Jenn

September 15th 07, 07:48 PM

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> > On Sep 14, 3:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> ti.fi...
> >> >>
> >> >> > George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
> >> >> > tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
> >> >> > charitable basis.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not so - it is work for pay.
> >> >>
> >> >> > As somebody pointed out, a poor
> >> >> > recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
> >> >> > the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
> >> >> > recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
> >> >>
> >> >> The schools pay the going rate.
> >> >
> >> > I take it all back, a complaint to the school board may be in order.
> >>
> >> To be credible, the complaint would have to come from the festival
> >> judges,
> >> director, or the school music directors. They are the only people,
> >> besides
> >> some students, who have ever heard the recordings.
> >
> > Typically, the judges have nothing to do with the running of the
> > festivals.
>
> Maybe in your world, but not mine.
>
> > They are simply hired by the people running the festival to
> > adjudicate.
>
> Maybe in your world, but not mine.
>
> At the festivals I've worked, the judges and the festival director have been
> colleagues for a goodly time and work together.

Usually true.

>
> Typically, the festival director has been a judge at more than a few earlier
> festivals.

Usually true.

>
> > Sometimes input is asked for.
>
> Been there when it happened, which is about just about every festival.

I don't know how it is in MI, but in CA, NV, OR, WA, AZ, and TX (the
places where I've judged festivals), the festival is usually run by a
local school district, school, or collection of schools, and they hire a
judging association (such as the Southern California School Band and
Orchestra Association or California Band Directors Association in CA, or
Oregon Band Directors Association in OR, etc.) who assigns a panel of
judges. Almost always, the sponsoring school(s) know the judges; we're
all colleagues and work together. Sometimes, they are "independent"
festivals and the sponsors hire the judges directly, sometimes from out
of state and often college colleagues, to reduce the chances of bias.
In both cases, the judges aren't involved in the organization of the
festivals; we just come and judge.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 16th 07, 01:24 AM

On Sep 15, 3:00 pm, "ScottW" > wrote:

> Times have changed and Arny isn't exactly producing
> recordings for sale. He's in a different game.

Then why does good old Arns pretend that he's on the same level as a
pro?

If Iain was saying things like this to good old Arns, and all good old
Arns claimed to be was basically a concerned parent offering his time
to amateurishly record whatever he could, that would be one thing.
That is not the case.

Good old Arns feels he can hang with the pros because he's "been
there, done that." Good old Arns pretends to know as much as a
professional soldier without ever having been through Basic Combat
Training. Sound familiar? LOL!

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 16th 07, 06:48 AM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article om>,
>> > Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sep 14, 4:16 pm, Jenn > wrote:
>> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > > Jenn.
>> >> > > Basset seems to have a fixation with homosexuality. Perhaps it is
>> >> > > the effect of the all those sheep and pigs with which he spends
>> >> > > his time. I wonder if he has a similar phobia for the black
>> >> > > races and those of the Jewish faith? What about a black,
>> >> > > Jewish tube amp builder???
>> >> >
>> >> > My God! What a deviant! ;-)
>> >>
>> >> I think Sander is incapacitated right now, so we cannot ask him if
>> >> he's black or Jewish.
>> >>
>> >> We know he's a deviant, though: he's Dutch.
>> >
>> > Can't have THAT!
>>
>> Hi Jenn. Do you know the work of any of the early (C18th)
>> Dutch composers? They are quite wonderful. Carel Fodor,
>> Jean Meder, Christian Graaf, Johan Lentz, Pieter Hellendaal
>> are all worth a listen.
>
> I've heard of them, but just barely. I'll investigate; thanks for the
> tip.

My favourite is William de Fesch, of Concerto Grosso
fame. His would be a good name to put at the top of your list.

Regards
Iain

Mr.T

September 16th 07, 06:54 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
> But I do get a little tired of people like Bassett and
> Mr T (neither of whom probably know a French
> horn from a frying pan)

But never seems to get tired of making stupid statements and false
assumptions!

MrT.

Mr.T

September 16th 07, 06:57 AM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
> It would be interesting to turn up in an LRV at one
> of Arny's recording dates, and, with the consent of the
> client, make a parallel recording, to show them how
> their orchestra/choir could/should sound.
> They would probably start litigation against Arny for
> gross misrepresentation:-)

I'm sure you are welcome to quote for their business.
Then you can let us know the real outcome, not just your fantasies.

MrT.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 16th 07, 08:00 AM

"MiNe 109" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> Hi Jenn. Do you know the work of any of the early (C18th)
>> Dutch composers? They are quite wonderful.Carel Fodor,
>> Jean Meder, Christian Graaf, Johan Lentz, Pieter Hellendaal
>> are all worth a listen.
>>
>> Sander has a proud trandition.
>
> Jeez. I don't recognize a single name. Google...Okay, Fodor is listed as
> Carel Anton Fodor, distinguishing him from a coal merchant/art
> collector.

They are all famous European composers. You may have composers
in the US (though not from the 1700s:-) that are unknown to us here.

>
> These guys are all included in Olympia's "400 Years of Dutch Music"
> series.

William de Fesch is my favourite Dutch composer.
I used to get a regular list of new releases from Olympia.
They seem to be out of business now.

Iain

>
> Stephen

bassett[_2_]

September 16th 07, 08:27 AM

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>> But I do get a little tired of people like Bassett and
>> Mr T (neither of whom probably know a French
>> horn from a frying pan)
>
> But never seems to get tired of making stupid statements and false
> assumptions!
>
> MrT.

I really don't care about french horns, all I know is I can't cook
eggs and bacon in one, unlike a frying pan.

bassett[_2_]

September 16th 07, 08:31 AM

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
...
>
> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> i.fi...
>> It would be interesting to turn up in an LRV at one
>> of Arny's recording dates, and, with the consent of the
>> client, make a parallel recording, to show them how
>> their orchestra/choir could/should sound.
>> They would probably start litigation against Arny for
>> gross misrepresentation:-)
>
> I'm sure you are welcome to quote for their business.
> Then you can let us know the real outcome, not just your fantasies.
>
> MrT.
>
I doubt he would know how to quote for anything "T" . he's far
too busy, improving his ego. And his other problem would be, he
would have to deal with real people, and have all his own gear.
At the moment he's only an employee. and does as he's told.

bassett

Mr.T

September 16th 07, 08:38 AM

"bassett" > wrote in message
...
> I doubt he would know how to quote for anything "T" . he's far
> too busy, improving his ego.

Prety fair assesment.

>And his other problem would be, he
> would have to deal with real people, and have all his own gear.

And all valve gear would be expensive and none too portable either :-)

> At the moment he's only an employee. and does as he's told.

Assuming *anything* he say's is even close the truth.

MrT.

bassett[_2_]

September 16th 07, 03:07 PM

"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
u...
>
> "bassett" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I doubt he would know how to quote for anything "T" . he's far
>> too busy, improving his ego.
>
> Prety fair assesment.
>
>>And his other problem would be, he
>> would have to deal with real people, and have all his own gear.
>
> And all valve gear would be expensive and none too portable either :-)
>
>> At the moment he's only an employee. and does as he's told.
>
> Assuming *anything* he say's is even close the truth.
>
> MrT.

I can picture it now, there we have a concert, or performance running
and "his nib's" is there attempting to do a live recording.
waving his little arms, and giving orders, to know one in particular,
when all of a sudden, he leaps up on his stainless steel milk crate,
[ nothing as common as a red plastic one, for this boy] yelling out,
stop, stop, I forgot to give the French Horns a microphone, can we
start again please. Or in his case, he would demand they started
again, or he would take his ball and go home.
bassett

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 16th 07, 05:18 PM

"MiNe 109" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Jenn. Do you know the work of any of the early (C18th)
>> >> Dutch composers? They are quite wonderful.Carel Fodor,
>> >> Jean Meder, Christian Graaf, Johan Lentz, Pieter Hellendaal
>> >> are all worth a listen.
>> >>
>> >> Sander has a proud trandition.
>> >
>> > Jeez. I don't recognize a single name. Google...Okay, Fodor is listed
>> > as
>> > Carel Anton Fodor, distinguishing him from a coal merchant/art
>> > collector.
>>
>> They are all famous European composers. You may have composers
>> in the US (though not from the 1700s:-) that are unknown to us here.
>
> Probably not famous ones, although I wonder if Carlisle Floyd or Douglas
> Moore are heard in Europe.

No. But you have got me interested now. Any particular works to look
out for?
>
>> > These guys are all included in Olympia's "400 Years of Dutch Music"
>> > series.
>>
>> William de Fesch is my favourite Dutch composer.
>> I used to get a regular list of new releases from Olympia.
>> They seem to be out of business now.
>
> I found a short bio and a review of his oratorio Joseph here:
>
> http://www.weku.fm/carter_page_03.htm
>
> I'd listen to that.

A composer of some stature.
Iain

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 16th 07, 06:48 PM

Jenn

September 16th 07, 06:59 PM

In article >,
"Iain Churches" > wrote:

> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >
> >> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Hi Jenn. Do you know the work of any of the early (C18th)
> >> >> >> Dutch composers? They are quite wonderful.Carel Fodor,
> >> >> >> Jean Meder, Christian Graaf, Johan Lentz, Pieter Hellendaal
> >> >> >> are all worth a listen.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Sander has a proud trandition.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Jeez. I don't recognize a single name. Google...Okay, Fodor is
> >> >> > listed
> >> >> > as
> >> >> > Carel Anton Fodor, distinguishing him from a coal merchant/art
> >> >> > collector.
> >> >>
> >> >> They are all famous European composers. You may have composers
> >> >> in the US (though not from the 1700s:-) that are unknown to us here.
> >> >
> >> > Probably not famous ones, although I wonder if Carlisle Floyd or
> >> > Douglas
> >> > Moore are heard in Europe.
> >>
> >> No. But you have got me interested now. Any particular works to look
> >> out for?
> >
> > They both wrote American-themed operas, the most famous of which are
> > Moore's "Ballad of Baby Doe," set in a silver mining town and Floyd's
> > "Susannah," a Southern retelling of the story set by Handel. Google
> > shows a recent production of the latter in Wexford. There's also a
> > recent recording from Nagano and the Lyon opera. The Moore has a
> > recording with Beverly Sills that was reissued. Haven't heard the
> > recordings, but I've seen productions of both.
>
> Hmm. I wonder if those outside the USA would appreciate
> such works.

Baby Doe hasn't played outside of U.S. borders very much, sad to say.
Besides the American story, there is also the very large cast (30-some,
not counting the chorus) so it's expensive to do and to travel with. I
believe that Susannah has fared better overseas than has Baby Doe.

Iain Churches[_2_]

September 16th 07, 08:19 PM

"MiNe 109" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>
>> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> > In article >,
>> >> >> > "Iain Churches" > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Hi Jenn. Do you know the work of any of the early (C18th)
>> >> >> >> Dutch composers? They are quite wonderful.Carel Fodor,
>> >> >> >> Jean Meder, Christian Graaf, Johan Lentz, Pieter Hellendaal
>> >> >> >> are all worth a listen.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Sander has a proud trandition.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Jeez. I don't recognize a single name. Google...Okay, Fodor is
>> >> >> > listed
>> >> >> > as
>> >> >> > Carel Anton Fodor, distinguishing him from a coal merchant/art
>> >> >> > collector.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> They are all famous European composers. You may have composers
>> >> >> in the US (though not from the 1700s:-) that are unknown to us
>> >> >> here.
>> >> >
>> >> > Probably not famous ones, although I wonder if Carlisle Floyd or
>> >> > Douglas
>> >> > Moore are heard in Europe.
>> >>
>> >> No. But you have got me interested now. Any particular works to look
>> >> out for?
>> >
>> > They both wrote American-themed operas, the most famous of which are
>> > Moore's "Ballad of Baby Doe," set in a silver mining town and Floyd's
>> > "Susannah," a Southern retelling of the story set by Handel. Google
>> > shows a recent production of the latter in Wexford. There's also a
>> > recent recording from Nagano and the Lyon opera. The Moore has a
>> > recording with Beverly Sills that was reissued. Haven't heard the
>> > recordings, but I've seen productions of both.
>>
>> Hmm. I wonder if those outside the USA would appreciate
>> such works. But it would be interesting to hear them. I am
>> sure local record shops cannot supply them, but the library
>> service almost certainly can. I will ask. Thanks for the info.
>
> No problem.
>
>> PS. Do you happen know what, if anything, has happened '
>> to Olympia?
>
> It took longer than I'd thought to find them:
>
> http://www.olympia-cd.com/index.htm
>
> I think they've changed US distributors several times.
Thanks for the link, I have bookmarked it.

> No Finland distributor listed.
I used to deal with Francis direct. The society to which
I belong used to order about 50CDs at a time, so he was
quite happy.

> I didn't notice many dates (most of the review page
> reviews are old) but a Myaskovsky (or Miaskovsky) edition is underway.

This loooks very much like the material they had available
for or five years ago, with no new additions that I could see.

Regards
Iain

Arny Krueger

September 16th 07, 09:03 PM

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> >> ups.com...
>> >> > On Sep 14, 3:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >> >> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ti.fi...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
>> >> >> > tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
>> >> >> > charitable basis.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Not so - it is work for pay.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > As somebody pointed out, a poor
>> >> >> > recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
>> >> >> > the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
>> >> >> > recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The schools pay the going rate.
>> >> >
>> >> > I take it all back, a complaint to the school board may be in order.
>> >>
>> >> To be credible, the complaint would have to come from the festival
>> >> judges,
>> >> director, or the school music directors. They are the only people,
>> >> besides
>> >> some students, who have ever heard the recordings.
>> >
>> > Typically, the judges have nothing to do with the running of the
>> > festivals.
>>
>> Maybe in your world, but not mine.
>>
>> > They are simply hired by the people running the festival to
>> > adjudicate.
>>
>> Maybe in your world, but not mine.
>>
>> At the festivals I've worked, the judges and the festival director have
>> been
>> colleagues for a goodly time and work together.
>
> Usually true.
>
>>
>> Typically, the festival director has been a judge at more than a few
>> earlier
>> festivals.
>
> Usually true.
>
>>
>> > Sometimes input is asked for.
>>
>> Been there when it happened, which is about just about every festival.
>
> I don't know how it is in MI, but in CA, NV, OR, WA, AZ, and TX (the
> places where I've judged festivals), the festival is usually run by a
> local school district, school, or collection of schools, and they hire a
> judging association (such as the Southern California School Band and
> Orchestra Association or California Band Directors Association in CA, or
> Oregon Band Directors Association in OR, etc.) who assigns a panel of
> judges.

Sounds pretty close to what I've seen.

The two organizations I work with are the MSBOA and the MSVMA.

> Almost always, the sponsoring school(s) know the judges; we're
> all colleagues and work together. Sometimes, they are "independent"
> festivals and the sponsors hire the judges directly, sometimes from out
> of state and often college colleagues, to reduce the chances of bias.
> In both cases, the judges aren't involved in the organization of the
> festivals; we just come and judge.

From what I have seen the MSBOA and MSVMA, the organizers and judges are one
big happy family. One week I'll see someone judging and the next maybe I'll
work a festival that person has organized.

Arny Krueger

September 16th 07, 09:04 PM

"Iain Churches" > wrote in message
i.fi...
>
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On Sep 14, 3:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ti.fi...
>>>
>>> > George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
>>> > tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
>>> > charitable basis.
>>>
>>> Not so - it is work for pay.
>>>
>>> > As somebody pointed out, a poor
>>> > recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
>>> > the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
>>> > recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
>>>
>>> The schools pay the going rate.
>>
>> I take it all back, a complaint to the school board may be in order.
>>
>> ScottW
>>
>
> It would be interesting to turn up in an LRV at one
> of Arny's recording dates, and, with the consent of the
> client, make a parallel recording, to show them how
> their orchestra/choir could/should sound.

Be my guest. Given all of the gaffes you keep on making Iain, it would be a
lot of fun - for me.

> They would probably start litigation against Arny for
> gross misrepresentation:-)

Letting blowhards like you Iain puncture themselves does tend to improve my
days. ;-)

Arny Krueger

September 16th 07, 09:07 PM

Jenn

September 16th 07, 09:21 PM

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> >> >> ups.com...
> >> >> > On Sep 14, 3:32 pm, "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >> >> "Iain Churches" > wrote in message
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ti.fi...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > George. I feel that Scott was not considering the matter of
> >> >> >> > tutoring, but the work that Arny does for schools on a
> >> >> >> > charitable basis.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Not so - it is work for pay.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > As somebody pointed out, a poor
> >> >> >> > recording might be better than no recording at all. And if
> >> >> >> > the school concerned had the money to pay for a decent
> >> >> >> > recording they probably wouldn't twice at Mr.K.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The schools pay the going rate.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I take it all back, a complaint to the school board may be in order.
> >> >>
> >> >> To be credible, the complaint would have to come from the festival
> >> >> judges,
> >> >> director, or the school music directors. They are the only people,
> >> >> besides
> >> >> some students, who have ever heard the recordings.
> >> >
> >> > Typically, the judges have nothing to do with the running of the
> >> > festivals.
> >>
> >> Maybe in your world, but not mine.
> >>
> >> > They are simply hired by the people running the festival to
> >> > adjudicate.
> >>
> >> Maybe in your world, but not mine.
> >>
> >> At the festivals I've worked, the judges and the festival director have
> >> been
> >> colleagues for a goodly time and work together.
> >
> > Usually true.
> >
> >>
> >> Typically, the festival director has been a judge at more than a few
> >> earlier
> >> festivals.
> >
> > Usually true.
> >
> >>
> >> > Sometimes input is asked for.
> >>
> >> Been there when it happened, which is about just about every festival.
> >
> > I don't know how it is in MI, but in CA, NV, OR, WA, AZ, and TX (the
> > places where I've judged festivals), the festival is usually run by a
> > local school district, school, or collection of schools, and they hire a
> > judging association (such as the Southern California School Band and
> > Orchestra Association or California Band Directors Association in CA, or
> > Oregon Band Directors Association in OR, etc.) who assigns a panel of
> > judges.
>
> Sounds pretty close to what I've seen.
>
> The two organizations I work with are the MSBOA and the MSVMA.
>
> > Almost always, the sponsoring school(s) know the judges; we're
> > all colleagues and work together. Sometimes, they are "independent"
> > festivals and the sponsors hire the judges directly, sometimes from out
> > of state and often college colleagues, to reduce the chances of bias.
> > In both cases, the judges aren't involved in the organization of the
> > festivals; we just come and judge.
>
> From what I have seen the MSBOA and MSVMA, the organizers and judges are one
> big happy family. One week I'll see someone judging and the next maybe I'll
> work a festival that person has organized.

Very typical; I think that we are in agreement here. All I was saying
is that the judges don't "run" the festivals; even though everyone knows
everyone else and are generally cooperative (everyone involved wants the
thing to succeed for the kids), the judges are basically paid employees
there to adjudicate only. The next week, one or more of the judges may
be running their own festival, and not adjudicating.

Fun Tyme

September 17th 07, 12:15 AM

bassett wrote:
> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
> u...
>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I doubt he would know how to quote for anything "T" . he's far
>>> too busy, improving his ego.
>> Prety fair assesment.
>>
>>> And his other problem would be, he
>>> would have to deal with real people, and have all his own gear.
>> And all valve gear would be expensive and none too portable either :-)
>>
>>> At the moment he's only an employee. and does as he's told.
>> Assuming *anything* he say's is even close the truth.
>>
>> MrT.
>
> I can picture it now, there we have a concert, or performance running
> and "his nib's" is there attempting to do a live recording.
> waving his little arms, and giving orders, to know one in particular,
> when all of a sudden, he leaps up on his stainless steel milk crate,
> [ nothing as common as a red plastic one, for this boy] yelling out,
> stop, stop, I forgot to give the French Horns a microphone, can we
> start again please. Or in his case, he would demand they started
> again, or he would take his ball and go home.
> bassett
>
>
>

....bassett is believed to be a misspelling of the word "basket" which is
again *******ised by his dropping of the second half of the more
appropriate name "basket case".

This pig-ignorant fool is ridiculed wherever he pokes his nose, be it
discussion groups or obscure forums. It is indeed true that this idiot
uses words far beyond his station, this noted and pointed out by many in
various places on the internet. Many years of ridicule by the many has
failed to change the ways of the bassett. The adage "one can't teach an
old dog new tricks" certainly holds in this case. "Brain dead" could
easily replace "old".

The bassett certainly has an inferiority complex, but also suggested is
tertiary syphilis as a cause for his bizarre demeanour.

The bassett has no technical background whatsoever, what little he knows
is by text association only, his gathered knowledge being of similar
quality to his comprehension and use of language. He has all the
intellectual force of a liquid fart, and an intact hymen across his
logical faculties.

Responses from persons attacked by this diseased dog are usually
followed by bully tactics and veiled threats of physical attacks,
showing the small-mindedness and lack of reason within this mentally
challenged individual. Bassett's responses usually contain layers of
oblique incoherence interspersed with random commas, but always a
generous supply of misspelled and poorly chosen words.

It is entirely possible the bassett just wants to be somebody.

bassett[_2_]

September 17th 07, 02:06 PM

"Fun Tyme" > wrote in message
...
> bassett wrote:
>> "Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
>> u...
>>> "bassett" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I doubt he would know how to quote for anything "T" . he's
>>>> far
>>>> too busy, improving his ego.
>>> Prety fair assesment.
>>>
>>>> And his other problem would be, he
>>>> would have to deal with real people, and have all his own gear.
>>> And all valve gear would be expensive and none too portable either :-)
>>>
>>>> At the moment he's only an employee. and does as he's told.
>>> Assuming *anything* he say's is even close the truth.
>>>
>>> MrT.
>>
>> I can picture it now, there we have a concert, or performance
>> running and "his nib's" is there attempting to do a live
>> recording.
>> waving his little arms, and giving orders, to know one in
>> particular, when all of a sudden, he leaps up on his stainless steel
>> milk crate, [ nothing as common as a red plastic one, for this
>> boy] yelling out, stop, stop, I forgot to give the French Horns a
>> microphone, can we start again please. Or in his case, he would
>> demand they started again, or he would take his ball and go
>> home.
>> bassett
>>
>
> ...bassett is believed to be a misspelling of the word "basket" which is
> again *******ised by his dropping of the second half of the more
> appropriate name "basket case".
>
> This pig-ignorant fool is ridiculed wherever he pokes his nose, be it
> discussion groups or obscure forums. It is indeed true that this idiot
> uses words far beyond his station, this noted and pointed out by many in
> various places on the internet. Many years of ridicule by the many has
> failed to change the ways of the bassett. The adage "one can't teach an
> old dog new tricks" certainly holds in this case. "Brain dead" could
> easily replace "old".
>
> The bassett certainly has an inferiority complex, but also suggested is
> tertiary syphilis as a cause for his bizarre demeanour.
>
> The bassett has no technical background whatsoever, what little he knows
> is by text association only, his gathered knowledge being of similar
> quality to his comprehension and use of language. He has all the
> intellectual force of a liquid fart, and an intact hymen across his
> logical faculties.
>
> Responses from persons attacked by this diseased dog are usually followed
> by bully tactics and veiled threats of physical attacks, showing the
> small-mindedness and lack of reason within this mentally challenged
> individual. Bassett's responses usually contain layers of oblique
> incoherence interspersed with random commas, but always a generous supply
> of misspelled and poorly chosen words.
>
> It is entirely possible the bassett just wants to be somebody.

How sad, And I see you've used this little set of rubbish before,
So off you go, and dream up some more little drama's about me,
Then you can return and tell everyone what you think..
now run along your mummies got your Play lunch on the table.
then after your little sleep, you can play in the sand pit, until
Mummies, goes of to work at the local brothel
bassett