Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!

[Ken Lacouture]

Who's giving out free tips for recording tabla? Things such as: one mic
or two? Condenser or dynamic? How close?

I've also got a sarod and maybe a tempura to deal with. Any advice
appreciated -- this beggar will not choose.

[Benjamin Maas]

"Ken Lacouture" > wrote in message ...
> Who's giving out free tips for recording tabla? Things such as: one mic
> or two? Condenser or dynamic? How close?

Personally, I like one condenser mic facing down between the two drums.
I've worked with some Tabla players that will only play with 2 SM57s in
front of them (and then very heavily EQ'd so that they are very bright with
no low-end). One of these players wouldn't even let me use SM-58's.

> I've also got a sarod and maybe a tempura to deal with. Any advice
> appreciated -- this beggar will not choose.

If I could remember which instruments these are I could help, but alas, my
knowledge of world instruments is slipping. :-( I just remember them by
what they look like...

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

[John S. Etnier]

The only really decent tempura I've ever had was at the original
Hatsuhana on E48th St. The batter just filigreed outwards from the fish
and vegetables- it's soured me on any lesser preparations.

Thing is- when it's frying you have hot oil spattering everywhere: not
a place for a good mic- you'd practically have to use a hydrophone.

Or are you going for the crunch when you bite in?



In article <ALZMa.30035$fG.15073@sccrnsc01>, Benjamin Maas
> wrote:

> "Ken Lacouture" > wrote in message ...
> > Who's giving out free tips for recording tabla? Things such as: one mic
> > or two? Condenser or dynamic? How close?
>
> Personally, I like one condenser mic facing down between the two drums.
> I've worked with some Tabla players that will only play with 2 SM57s in
> front of them (and then very heavily EQ'd so that they are very bright with
> no low-end). One of these players wouldn't even let me use SM-58's.
>
> > I've also got a sarod and maybe a tempura to deal with. Any advice
> > appreciated -- this beggar will not choose.
>
> If I could remember which instruments these are I could help, but alas, my
> knowledge of world instruments is slipping. :-( I just remember them by
> what they look like...
>
> --Ben

--
John Etnier
Studio Dual
http://www.studiodual.com

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> I've also got a sarod and maybe a tempura to deal with. Any advice
> appreciated -- this beggar will not choose.

Eat the tempura while it's very fresh. It gets soggy fast.

Use a nice condenser mic on the tamboura.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[Ken Lacouture]

Ken Lacouture wrote:

> http://makar-records.com/siteus/frameinstrument.html. Note that this page is
> a description of the *tambura*, but in the body of the definition it invites
> us to "listen to Uday Bhawalkar's tempura".

Sorry, that link takes you to the opening frameset instead of the specific
frame. Try this one instead: http://makar-records.com/siteus/tambura.html

[Mike Clayton]

In article >,
(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:

> Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>
> > O Tempura! O Morays!
>
> O Fugit!
>
> --
> ha

ha yourself!

How about this gem I picked up from the Internet some time ago:

Cogito ergo sum - I think therefore I am
Cogito ergo spud - I think therefore I yam

withdraws delicately stage left...

--
Mike Clayton

[Don Pearce]

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:23:37 +1200,
(Mike Clayton) wrote:

>In article >,
(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:
>
>> Scott Dorsey > wrote:
>>
>> > O Tempura! O Morays!
>>
>> O Fugit!
>>
>> --
>> ha
>
>ha yourself!
>
>How about this gem I picked up from the Internet some time ago:
>
>Cogito ergo sum - I think therefore I am
>Cogito ergo spud - I think therefore I yam
>
>withdraws delicately stage left...

But how could you miss these?

Coughio ergo phlegm
Coito ergo cum

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Vladan]

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:32:20 +0100, Don Pearce
> wrote:

>Coughio ergo phlegm
>Coito ergo cum

He he he.

Vladan
www.geocities.com/vla_dan_l
www.mp3.com/lesly , www.mp3.com/shook , www.mp3.com/lesly2
www.kunsttick.com/artists/vuskovic/indexdat.htm

[Bob Olhsson]

In article <ALZMa.30035$fG.15073@sccrnsc01>, Benjamin Maas
> wrote:

>One of these players wouldn't even let me use SM-58's.

Not surprising, 57s usually sound better than 58s and sometimes better
than anything else!

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery Recording Project Design and Consulting
Box 90412, Nashville TN 37209 Tracking, Mixing, Mastering, Audio for Picture
615.385.8051 FAX: 615.385.8196 Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
40 years of making people sound better than they ever imagined!

[Daniel Fuchs]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> The thing about tabla is that performers almost always want it really
> close-miked and really dry. It sounds a lot more realistic in a small
> room with ambient miking,

Yuck... The smaller the room, the worse an ambient Tabla sound gets...

I'm all in favour of close miking Tablas...


Daniel

[ScotFraser]

<< I guess you've never read the instruction manual for a piece of Roland
gear? Or the shop manual for a Japanese car? They know what the words
sound like in their language, and they know how to spell phonetically
in our language. What they leave for your imagination is to put them
together. >>

The classic example being an old Roland manual for one of their electric
organs. It described the means for attaching the legs to the instrument. They
knew there were multiple word possibilities in English for the verb "to screw"
but didn't fully appreciate the nuances involved in some of those alternatives.




Scott Fraser

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> The classic example being an old Roland manual for one of their electric
> organs. It described the means for attaching the legs to the instrument. They
> knew there were multiple word possibilities in English for the verb "to screw"
> but didn't fully appreciate the nuances involved in some of those alternatives.

Sony did a rapid pull of the introduction of there set-top Internet
box which they had, for some strange reason, named Woody, and used
Woody Woodpecker as an icon. Their ad copy, when translated into
English by the marketing department, read:

"Touch Woody, your Internet pecker"

This is for real, it's not Internet folklore.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

[ScotFraser]

<< "Touch Woody, your Internet pecker" >>

I think a lot of RAP content can be explained by people "touching Woody, their
Internet peckers".


Jeez, you'd think Sony would have some native English speakers somewhere on
staff.

Scott Fraser

[Ken Lacouture]

....MIKE RIVERS, for correctly intuiting that "tempura" was a transliterated
mispelling of "tambora"!

> I guess you've never read the instruction manual for a piece of Roland
> gear? Or the shop manual for a Japanese car? They know what the words
> sound like in their language, and they know how to spell phonetically
> in our language. What they leave for your imagination is to put them
> together.

Yes, indeedy, both the acoustic and electronic versions are "tamboras", and the
existence of "tempura" in both the producer's mind and on the web is but a
coincidence. At least that is the reaction of the ensemble leader when I
explained the mystery to him, and showed him the e-mail.

Extra credit: he also informs me that in (whichever Indian language we're
talking about) "tambora" means "that which completes the tone."


And for his correct answer Mike has won... well, nothing actually, except maybe
the smug satisfaction of being correct, as well as the privilege of continuing
right on with the business of really being Mike Rivers. And my gratitude for his
help.

[Ken Lacouture]

Short story: producer was happy, musicians were happy, engineer was as
close to happy as he ever gets.

Long story: For those who are curious, we are working on a very cool
project for the National Film Preservation Foundation. In 2004 they will
release a 3 DVD set of 50 restored silent films. My job is to work with
the music curator recording accompaniment for the films. (Further info at
"www.filmpreservation.org", then click "DVD Collections" and "Saving the
Silents." And btw, there are also clips from the last DVD set, "Treasures
from American Film Archives" which was also recorded by yours truly, toot
toot on my own...)

Most of this music is solo piano, but every once in a while the music
curator throws me a curve. This one was for a film called "The Flute of
Krishna", which is a filmed document of a Martha Graham choreography from
1926. So an Indian ensemble was a natch.

So as I said: tamboura, tabla, sarod, and flute. But only three musicians
-- the ensemble leader wanted to lay down the drone of the tamboura first,
and then track over that while he doubled on sarod. But since we do this
on location in a recital hall without a proper control room he wasn't sure
(before talking to me) if we were going to have overdub capabilities. If
not, we would have no option but to use the electronic tamboura while the
three played live. (Plus he was taking public transportation, and didn't
want to lug a real tamboura along with the sarod if it couldn't be used.)

The electronic version of the tambora is a little box about the size of a
tube mic power supply. I didn't have a chance to ask how it worked, but
you turn it on and it sits there and drones away. You can tune it, and
apparently it drifts over time. (Aside: when I asked the ensemble leader
if they were done tuning, he said, "We're never done tuning! We're always
tuning.")

First we laid down the drone with the acoustic tambora. Then he tuned the
electric to the track, and they tuned and warmed up against the electric.
When we lit the light they played to the electric in cans.

I happened to get lucky and had with me some really good armaments that
had been "loaned for evaluation" by a pro recording retail outfit that I
buy my stuff from. Thus in addition to my regular stuff I had a pair of
Schoeps CMC6/MK4 combos and a pair of Neumann KM 184s to play with! Here's
what I did with it all:

INSTRUMENT DETAILS:
Tambora: It looks a bit like a mini-sitar. I put my TLM 103 on it, through
a Millennia HV-3D (did everything else through the Millennia too). He
said, "go for the buzz from down here by the bridge."

Sarod: a roughly guitar form, but with a goatskin stretched over the
"drum" which the bridge rests on. The neck appeared to be a tin (?) panel
over a hollow chamber. The tone was somewhat reminiscent of a dobro, which
I attribute to the metal fretboard. It almost like it's got it's own
reverb built into it. I put a KM 184 just a bit above where the neck met
the body, at about a 30 degree angle. I had a pleasing twang when the
producer grabbed it and aimed it more back towards the drum, giving a
rounder, muddier tone. I let him be the boss.

Tabla: did it with one mic, the TLM 103, positioned pretty much
exclusively over small drum, at about a 45 degree angle down towards the
head. I turned the body very slightly towards the large drum, figuring I
would get the bassy boom off-axis without it getting out of control.
Depending on where I listen, I'm either really pleased, or I feel there's
too little large drum. I had a dynamic standing by, but I liked the 103
and nobody complained, so I stuck with it.

Flute: my my my, wooden flutes are SOOO much more mellow than our modern
nickel. This was the one part I wasn't really happy with. When I got away
from the mouth, it laid too far back in the mix. When I got closer, I got
a harsh breathiness. We went with the harsh/presence. I'm sure it was
helped by the Schoeps -- but maybe that's why it was too mellow when I was
further away to begin with? At any rate they were ready to play and it
sounded a lot better once I got some wet on it.

They played the seven minute film through three times, improvising with
suggestions from the music curator. We kept take three, and that was it!

I could post a sample from a mix somewhere if folks want to hear it.
What's the preferred format for music samples in these parts?

Thanks everyone for the tips. Confidence means a lot to a smooth session,
so just knowing what other people had done made me feel like I could be
free to experiment and then "fall back" on the tried and true if that
failed.

[Ken Lacouture]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> So, will any of these be available on 35mm film for rental at any point soon?
> My local art house would probably run it if I bugged them.
> --scott

Hmmm... with my limited knowledge of it, I kinda doubt it. Everything we're
doing is going telecine to Digital Beta, and my mixes are being flown to the
video. I suppose there's no technical reason they couldn't, I just think they
don't spend the money on striking film prints with sound. (I know that they DO
preserve the visual components of silent films onto fresh 35mm stock, but I
believe that's for archival purposes, not release.) I also know they did show
some films from the last set at a theater out in LA, but I have a feeling that
was video projection. Most of the time when these restored films get shown folks
like to take the opportunity to do it with live accompaniment.

If you want to follow up, contact Annette Melville at the NFPF. Drop my name and
tell her you met me on the 'net.

National Film Preservation Foundation
870 Market Street, Suite 1113
San Francisco, CA 94102
phone: 415-392-7292

P.S. -- Okay, I did a little digging on the NFPF website
(www.filmpreservation.org) and they refer to making "new master and viewing
prints", so I'm probably wrong. But who wants to retype everything above? Get
the real scoop from Annette. I need my nap now...

[Jonathan Roberts]

Ken Lacouture wrote:

> the
> existence of "tempura" in both the producer's mind and on the web is but a
> coincidence.

With some of the would-be avant-garde composers these days, though, you
never know: there COULD have been a part for "tempura" as someone might
have been supposed to slap pieces of food onto a cutting board for
percussion of some sort or another. I saw a John Cage piece once where
someone was scraping pieces of a cactus onto another cactus for a sound.

Especially in New York it's never safe to assume you've mis-heard. <g>

--

jonathan roberts * guitar keyboard vocal * North River Preservation
-------------------------------------------------------------------
God save America / Fertile and green / from the right wing /
and the left wing / and the birdbrains in-between...

[Bob Ross]

Jonathan Roberts wrote:

>
> With some of the would-be avant-garde composers these days, though, you
> never know: there COULD have been a part for "tempura" as someone might
> have been supposed to slap pieces of food onto a cutting board for
> percussion of some sort or another.

Whaddya mean, "COULD have"? http://members.aol.com/debrisbob/HUBRISRV.HTM