Re: Suggested noise filter settings for old movie?

[Madra Rua]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Madra Rua > wrote:
> >Esteemed Gurus :-)
> >
> >I have a VHS copy of the 1937 movie As You Like It.
> >
> >It has loads of pops, hiss and other noise.
> >
> >I tried the default settings in Cool Edit Pro but, apart from the pops,
it
> >didn't help much. I did find about 15 seconds at the end, where I
obtained
> >the fft sample.
>
> So, can you get a better copy to begin with? Odds are the VHS copy you
> have is many generations down from the original. The closer you can get
> to the original, the better.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

C'est vrai? ;-)

I recorded it from Public TV, so it shouldn't be too far down from the
original.

Would you believe it claims "Western Electric Noiseless Recording" :-)

Thanks for the comment.

Rua

[Scott Dorsey]

Madra Rua > wrote:
Scott writes:
>>
>> So, can you get a better copy to begin with? Odds are the VHS copy you
>> have is many generations down from the original. The closer you can get
>> to the original, the better.
>
>C'est vrai? ;-)
>
>I recorded it from Public TV, so it shouldn't be too far down from the
>original.

You recorded it OFF THE AIR?

You have to be joking. Okay, you got the original sound neg, than maybe
a mixed neg (also optical), then (if you're lucky) the print, and more likely
(if you aren't lucky) a couple dupe generations. Then transfer to videotape.
Then another transfer for the tape that got sent to the station. Then lots
of processing at the station, then the airchain, then the cable company
then the cable company processing chain, then your VHS machine.

This is a route for NASTINESS. This is NOT a low generation copy. This is
dozens of generations of junky gear down.

>Would you believe it claims "Western Electric Noiseless Recording" :-)

Yes, the Westrex push-pull track system WAS very noiseless compared with
variable density in that era. But I bet most of the noise you're dealing
with came AFTER the original print and has a lot to do with the huge numbers
of generations of copies before it got to you.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Madra Rua]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
news:znr1057231354k@trad...
>
> In article > writes:
>
> > You recorded it OFF THE AIR?
>
> > This is a route for NASTINESS. This is NOT a low generation copy. This
is
> > dozens of generations of junky gear down.
>
> Yeah, but it's probably pretty close to the sound on a commercially
> released videotape, which is about as close as anyone without
> credentials can get to the first generation. As much of the optical
> noise has probably already been removed as is practical, but of course
> that's a matter of judgement of the person who did it, the budget, and
> the tools available at the time.
>
> I suspect that what's remaining is what he wants to remove. I'd say
> just watch the old movie and recognize that it's an old movie.
>
--
> I'm really Mike Rivers - )
>

Many thanks Scott and Mike,

I recorded the movie from Public TV and cable - not "off air." With the
same VCR and TV station, I recorded an opera - much more recent than the
1937 movie - probably 1980s or 1990s. With the Cool Edit default settings,
and an fft sample from the beginning, I denoised it and the result is better
than the average FM radio where I live. I'm very happy with that result. I
think that denoising simply removes the noise introduced by the VCR, so the
original must have been in a fairly good state.

That old 1937 movie could have had many copies made to get into the state it
is in
now. I managed a reasonably good de-popping, and most likely the VCR noise
was removed too, but there is still much hiss and sometimes the voices are
not very sharp. What filter settings would make the best shot for a start? I
could spend a little time refining it afterwards.

Anyone know of a good sharp book on either or both audio and video editing?

TIA

Rua

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <znr1057231354k@trad>, Mike Rivers > wrote:
>In article > writes:
>
>> You recorded it OFF THE AIR?
>
>> This is a route for NASTINESS. This is NOT a low generation copy. This is
>> dozens of generations of junky gear down.
>
>Yeah, but it's probably pretty close to the sound on a commercially
>released videotape, which is about as close as anyone without
>credentials can get to the first generation. As much of the optical
>noise has probably already been removed as is practical, but of course
>that's a matter of judgement of the person who did it, the budget, and
>the tools available at the time.

Maybe, but all those levels of AGC are making the problem a lot worse,
and they are going to make it a lot harder to reduce any noise since the
noise level is constantly changing as the AGC pumps.

>I suspect that what's remaining is what he wants to remove. I'd say
>just watch the old movie and recognize that it's an old movie.

I'd suggest getting a new commercial reissue and starting from there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Madra Rua]

Thanks

Rua


"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> In article <znr1057231354k@trad>, Mike Rivers > wrote:
> >In article > writes:
> >
> >> You recorded it OFF THE AIR?
> >
> >> This is a route for NASTINESS. This is NOT a low generation copy.
This is
> >> dozens of generations of junky gear down.
> >
> >Yeah, but it's probably pretty close to the sound on a commercially
> >released videotape, which is about as close as anyone without
> >credentials can get to the first generation. As much of the optical
> >noise has probably already been removed as is practical, but of course
> >that's a matter of judgement of the person who did it, the budget, and
> >the tools available at the time.
>
> Maybe, but all those levels of AGC are making the problem a lot worse,
> and they are going to make it a lot harder to reduce any noise since the
> noise level is constantly changing as the AGC pumps.
>
> >I suspect that what's remaining is what he wants to remove. I'd say
> >just watch the old movie and recognize that it's an old movie.
>
> I'd suggest getting a new commercial reissue and starting from there.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>

[cyrus the virus]

In article >,
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> Madra Rua > wrote:
> >Esteemed Gurus :-)
> >
> >I have a VHS copy of the 1937 movie As You Like It.
> >
> >It has loads of pops, hiss and other noise.
> >
> >I tried the default settings in Cool Edit Pro but, apart from the pops, it
> >didn't help much. I did find about 15 seconds at the end, where I obtained
> >the fft sample.
>
> So, can you get a better copy to begin with? Odds are the VHS copy you
> have is many generations down from the original. The closer you can get
> to the original, the better.
> --scott

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3336430935&category=22
94

--
cyrus