Loudness compensation problem

[Fubar1000]

I recently purchased a Kenwood KR 9600 to upgrade from a 7600 I had
previously purchased from the same shop,as I like vintage equipment. I was
impressed with it bit noticed that the loudness switch, even though it has 2
settings, does not boost the bass nearly as much,even on the highest
setting, as my 7600 or most other receivers I've listened to.Granted I have
small speakers(Infinity RS9's, 6 1/2 inch woofer and small tweeter), but a
have to use the loudness #2 setting and turn the bass up to about 4 to get
adequate bass whereas with the 7600 loudness plus about 0 to 2 on the bass
knob was adequate.I tried a comparison with Grado headphones and the same FM
station, and the 7600's loudness definitely has more pronounced boost. I
would like to find out if this is likely to be a defect or was it designed
that way for some reason. The shop offers 6 months warranty so I'm not too
worried, but it's just a hassle to lug it in to them if there's nothing
wrong.(weighs about 60 pounds !!)
Also, I havent' turned in the 7600 for my trade-up refund yet, but if I do,
I will not be able to do the same with the 9600, should I desire to. So I'm
kind of on the fence right now as to whether I should take the trade-in
refund or treat this as a seperate purchase so I would have the option to
trade the 9600 up within 6 months. I hear good things about the Pioneer
"Super-receivers" and might consider one of them later.
Thanks, Dave Arrabito

[Uptown Audio]

Probably just a lower frequency range of operation of the loudness
compensation. They expect you to have full range or at least more
capable loudspeakers to pair with that model. If you had, you would
see that feature as an upgrade rather than a defect. As long as you
can compensate with the bass contour control, you can at least cope
with the situation. The ideal solution would be to upgrade the
speakers. For that, you should move on from the megastores and listen
to some at specialty audio shops. There you will find what you have
been hoping to hear for years.
- Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"Fubar1000" > wrote in message
news:HaBSa.93760$GL4.26070@rwcrnsc53...
> I recently purchased a Kenwood KR 9600 to upgrade from a 7600 I had
> previously purchased from the same shop,as I like vintage equipment.
I was
> impressed with it bit noticed that the loudness switch, even though
it has 2
> settings, does not boost the bass nearly as much,even on the highest
> setting, as my 7600 or most other receivers I've listened to.Granted
I have
> small speakers(Infinity RS9's, 6 1/2 inch woofer and small tweeter),
but a
> have to use the loudness #2 setting and turn the bass up to about 4
to get
> adequate bass whereas with the 7600 loudness plus about 0 to 2 on
the bass
> knob was adequate.I tried a comparison with Grado headphones and the
same FM
> station, and the 7600's loudness definitely has more pronounced
boost. I
> would like to find out if this is likely to be a defect or was it
designed
> that way for some reason. The shop offers 6 months warranty so I'm
not too
> worried, but it's just a hassle to lug it in to them if there's
nothing
> wrong.(weighs about 60 pounds !!)
> Also, I havent' turned in the 7600 for my trade-up refund yet, but
if I do,
> I will not be able to do the same with the 9600, should I desire to.
So I'm
> kind of on the fence right now as to whether I should take the
trade-in
> refund or treat this as a seperate purchase so I would have the
option to
> trade the 9600 up within 6 months. I hear good things about the
Pioneer
> "Super-receivers" and might consider one of them later.
> Thanks, Dave Arrabito
>

[Per Stromgren]

On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:54:45 GMT, "Uptown Audio" >
wrote:

>Probably just a lower frequency range of operation of the loudness
>compensation. They expect you to have full range or at least more
>capable loudspeakers to pair with that model.

Isn't that odd? I thought the loudness compensation was based on F&M
curves describing our *hearing*, not our loudspeakers! Compensating
for loudpeakers bad bass extension is a another kettle of fish,
entierly, right?

Per.

[Wylie Williams]

Re your comment:.
>
> Isn't that odd? I thought the loudness compensation was based on F&M
> curves describing our *hearing*, not our loudspeakers! Compensating
> for loudpeakers bad bass extension is a another kettle of fish,
> entierly, right?
>
> Per.
>
You are absolutely right, but all the average consumer knows about the
loudness button is that if you push it you get more bass, and that's what
they use it for. In the 80s I sold speakers kits that had good bass output.
Our customers usually bought them as replacements for speakers that had that
had weak bass response, and often called back complaining about the horrible
boomy bass from their new speakers. Invariably we found that they had the
loudness on and the bass all the way up. We asked them to set their
controls flat for a week and report back, and we found that the problems
disappeared.

[Uptown Audio]

Hi Per,
That depends upon which kettle you are interested in observing. I'm
not defending their decision to alter the frequency curve, but the
curve that goes into the design of these amps does vary from maker to
maker and from model to model. There are a lot of factors to consider
when implementing that boost and one would be the loudspeaker system
attached as that would effect the final output of the system, which is
what actually the customer is listening to, not the amplifier itself.
So to get any bass boost in a smaller speaker, you would have to shift
those frequencies higher to get within it's range of reproduction. For
a larger speaker, they can be lower and achieve the same effect. I
guess there is also the matter of taste and the maker does not bind
itself to that study to do what it feels improves the sound of it's
products. I know what you are saying, but people buy what they like,
not what you think they should like. So manufacturers may respond to
that more so than to any scientific data that might suggest they do
otherwise. We all know that they have no control of what speaker
system the user will choose or how they will place them, or how they
will use the tone controls or even an EQ, so it seems futile to try
and hold up any standard and perhaps more sensible to attempt to
improve the sound of their gear. You may not approve of the sound of
their gear. I'm not rushing out to buy one either, I have just seen it
done a lot on various models of amps.
- Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"Per Stromgren" > wrote in message
news:u7FSa.107801$ye4.80649@sccrnsc01...
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:54:45 GMT, "Uptown Audio"
>
> wrote:
>
> >Probably just a lower frequency range of operation of the loudness
> >compensation. They expect you to have full range or at least more
> >capable loudspeakers to pair with that model.
>
> Isn't that odd? I thought the loudness compensation was based on F&M
> curves describing our *hearing*, not our loudspeakers! Compensating
> for loudpeakers bad bass extension is a another kettle of fish,
> entierly, right?
>
> Per.
>