Re: No surround channels playing Dark Side of Moon SACD

[Harry Lavo]

"Tim Roberson" > wrote in message
t...
> I've just bought my first SACD disc - Dark Side of the Moon
> Played it on my Pioneer DVD 656A player, but as far as I can tell, I'm
> getting nothing from my rear speakers.
> Can anyone tell me if I should be? I understood this was a 5.1 mix.
>
> Here's how it's set up:
> The DVD player connects to my surround amp using the 6 analogue
connections,
> and I then select the "6-channel analogue" as input on my amp. I run the
DVD
> player's test tones, and get sound from all the speakers in turn. So
things
> look OK so far.
>
> When set up this way, I tested using both DTS and Dolby Digital DVD discs,
> and get sound from all speakers. Again - so far, so good.
>
> Time to try the SACD...
> Going through the player's menus, there are 3 options for SACD playback
(CD
> / SACD stereo / SACD surround). SACD surround seems the obvious choice, so
I
> take that setting. I put the Pink Floyd disc in, and I get "SACD"
illuminate
> on the player's display panel.....Still looking good.
>
> I now play the disc, but get stereo only. It's the same no matter which
SACD
> option I select.
> Is this what the disc is supposed to do, or can anyone suggest where I'm
> going wrong?
>
> Thanks for any help
>

Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Is their any indicator light
that should be on when playing SACD surround (according to the manual). If
so, is it on when the disk is playing? This will help isolate whether the
issue is with the tracking versus with the decoding/amplification.

[Steven Sullivan]

Tim Roberson > wrote:
> I've just bought my first SACD disc - Dark Side of the Moon
> Played it on my Pioneer DVD 656A player, but as far as I can tell, I'm
> getting nothing from my rear speakers.
> Can anyone tell me if I should be? I understood this was a 5.1 mix.

Only the SACD layer has a 6-channel mix. (as well as a stereo mix).

> Here's how it's set up:
> The DVD player connects to my surround amp using the 6 analogue connections,
> and I then select the "6-channel analogue" as input on my amp. I run the DVD
> player's test tones, and get sound from all the speakers in turn. So things
> look OK so far.

> When set up this way, I tested using both DTS and Dolby Digital DVD discs,
> and get sound from all speakers. Again - so far, so good.

> Time to try the SACD...
> Going through the player's menus, there are 3 options for SACD playback (CD
> / SACD stereo / SACD surround). SACD surround seems the obvious choice, so I
> take that setting. I put the Pink Floyd disc in, and I get "SACD" illuminate
> on the player's display panel.....Still looking good.

> I now play the disc, but get stereo only. It's the same no matter which SACD
> option I select.

Take the SACD out of the player.

Assyming you have your DVD player connected to a TV or monitor:
On the remote, press setup.OPen the PIoneer's Initial
Settings menu. Go down to the Options menu. Select SACD
PLayback. Select multichannel. Press setup again to save the settings.

Try playing the SACD again.

If that doesn't work, stop the SACD and
press setup to go back to the INitial Settings menu. Go to the
Speakers menu. Select Audio Output. Select '5,1 channel' Press setup
again to save the settings.

--
-S.

[Tim Roberson]

If only it was that easy!

I don't know which model you're referring to, but the uk version (DV-656A)
is both an SACD player and DVD-Audio player. See
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=2007&taxonomy_id=45-64

Maybe that's why I get those annoying SACD menu options ? ;-)
Nice try, though.

"Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message
news:Iz0Oa.53753$fG.38117@sccrnsc01...
> Simple. The DVD 656A is not an SACD player. It plays CD, DVD, DVD-A,
> MP3, etc. but not SACDs according to the Pioneer website. I am
> surprised you even get those menu choices.
>
> Kal
>
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:58:22 GMT, "Tim Roberson" >
> wrote:
>
> >I've just bought my first SACD disc - Dark Side of the Moon
> >Played it on my Pioneer DVD 656A player, but as far as I can tell, I'm
> >getting nothing from my rear speakers.
> >Can anyone tell me if I should be? I understood this was a 5.1 mix.
> >
> >Here's how it's set up:
> >The DVD player connects to my surround amp using the 6 analogue
connections,
> >and I then select the "6-channel analogue" as input on my amp. I run the
DVD
> >player's test tones, and get sound from all the speakers in turn. So
things
> >look OK so far.
> >
> >When set up this way, I tested using both DTS and Dolby Digital DVD
discs,
> >and get sound from all speakers. Again - so far, so good.
> >
> >Time to try the SACD...
> >Going through the player's menus, there are 3 options for SACD playback
(CD
> >/ SACD stereo / SACD surround). SACD surround seems the obvious choice,
so I
> >take that setting. I put the Pink Floyd disc in, and I get "SACD"
illuminate
> >on the player's display panel.....Still looking good.
> >
> >I now play the disc, but get stereo only. It's the same no matter which
SACD
> >option I select.
> >Is this what the disc is supposed to do, or can anyone suggest where I'm
> >going wrong?
> >
> >Thanks for any help
>

[Tim Roberson]

> Take the SACD out of the player.
>
> Assyming you have your DVD player connected to a TV or monitor:
> On the remote, press setup.OPen the PIoneer's Initial
> Settings menu. Go down to the Options menu. Select SACD
> PLayback. Select multichannel. Press setup again to save the settings.
>
> Try playing the SACD again.
>
> If that doesn't work, stop the SACD and
> press setup to go back to the INitial Settings menu. Go to the
> Speakers menu. Select Audio Output. Select '5,1 channel' Press setup
> again to save the settings.
>

Thanks for the suggestion.... unfortunately I've already got those settings
selected.
I'm becoming ever more convinced that I've got a duff disc or a duff player
here.

Since my original post, I've also tried connecting the SURROUND L/R
channels, on their own, direct into the known working CD inputs of my stereo
hifi amp. Even at full volume, I get onlay a barely audible signal (more
likey the result of cross-talk, i'd imagine).

[Tim Roberson]

> Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Is their any indicator light
> that should be on when playing SACD surround (according to the manual).
If
> so, is it on when the disk is playing? This will help isolate whether the
> issue is with the tracking versus with the decoding/amplification.

The manual really doesn't go into much detail for SACD, apart from
describing how to selct the appropriate "area" from the setup menu (CD area,
2-Channel Stereo area, or 5.1 Multichannel area). Once you choose one of
these, the on-screen track listing has this choice diaplayed at the top
(whether this is being detected from the disc, I don't know). I've watched
the LED display, and there don't appear to be any relevant LED indicators -
just a red "5.1CH" that's always on no matter what.
I do notice that when "CD area" is selected, the SACD text on the LED
display changed to "CD" - so I guess it's doing something.

Out of interest, does any one out there own this disc? At the moment I don't
know whether I even SHOULD be getting anything out of the rear speakers !!!

[Kalman Rubinson]

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:36:09 GMT, "Tim Roberson" >
wrote:

>If only it was that easy!
>
>I don't know which model you're referring to, but the uk version (DV-656A)
>is both an SACD player and DVD-Audio player. See
>http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=2007&taxonomy_id=45-64
>
>Maybe that's why I get those annoying SACD menu options ? ;-)
>Nice try, though.

Well, the Pioneer site I accessed has no mention of SACD on this
player at all
(http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/HomeProducts/HomeProductDetails/0,1422,71365,00.html

However, other references to it do indicate that it is supposed to be
a Universal player.

OTOH, the manual that Pioneer offers in PDF indicates that the 655,
not the 656, is SACD compatible. Fascinating.

Kal

>
>"Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message
>news:Iz0Oa.53753$fG.38117@sccrnsc01...
>> Simple. The DVD 656A is not an SACD player. It plays CD, DVD, DVD-A,
>> MP3, etc. but not SACDs according to the Pioneer website. I am
>> surprised you even get those menu choices.
>>
>> Kal
>>
>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:58:22 GMT, "Tim Roberson" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I've just bought my first SACD disc - Dark Side of the Moon
>> >Played it on my Pioneer DVD 656A player, but as far as I can tell, I'm
>> >getting nothing from my rear speakers.
>> >Can anyone tell me if I should be? I understood this was a 5.1 mix.
>> >
>> >Here's how it's set up:
>> >The DVD player connects to my surround amp using the 6 analogue
>connections,
>> >and I then select the "6-channel analogue" as input on my amp. I run the
>DVD
>> >player's test tones, and get sound from all the speakers in turn. So
>things
>> >look OK so far.
>> >
>> >When set up this way, I tested using both DTS and Dolby Digital DVD
>discs,
>> >and get sound from all speakers. Again - so far, so good.
>> >
>> >Time to try the SACD...
>> >Going through the player's menus, there are 3 options for SACD playback
>(CD
>> >/ SACD stereo / SACD surround). SACD surround seems the obvious choice,
>so I
>> >take that setting. I put the Pink Floyd disc in, and I get "SACD"
>illuminate
>> >on the player's display panel.....Still looking good.
>> >
>> >I now play the disc, but get stereo only. It's the same no matter which
>SACD
>> >option I select.
>> >Is this what the disc is supposed to do, or can anyone suggest where I'm
>> >going wrong?
>> >
>> >Thanks for any help
>>

[Steven Sullivan]

Tim Roberson > wrote:
>> Take the SACD out of the player.
>>
>> Assyming you have your DVD player connected to a TV or monitor:
>> On the remote, press setup.OPen the PIoneer's Initial
>> Settings menu. Go down to the Options menu. Select SACD
>> PLayback. Select multichannel. Press setup again to save the settings.
>>
>> Try playing the SACD again.
>>
>> If that doesn't work, stop the SACD and
>> press setup to go back to the INitial Settings menu. Go to the
>> Speakers menu. Select Audio Output. Select '5,1 channel' Press setup
>> again to save the settings.
>>

> Thanks for the suggestion.... unfortunately I've already got those settings
> selected.
> I'm becoming ever more convinced that I've got a duff disc or a duff player
> here.

> Since my original post, I've also tried connecting the SURROUND L/R
> channels, on their own, direct into the known working CD inputs of my stereo
> hifi amp. Even at full volume, I get onlay a barely audible signal (more
> likey the result of cross-talk, i'd imagine).

Do any other SACDs work in the player?

--
-S.

[Kalman Rubinson]

On 7 Jul 2003 18:55:37 GMT, "Tim Roberson" > wrote:

>> Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Is their any indicator light
>> that should be on when playing SACD surround (according to the manual).
>If
>> so, is it on when the disk is playing? This will help isolate whether the
>> issue is with the tracking versus with the decoding/amplification.
>
>The manual really doesn't go into much detail for SACD, apart from
>describing how to selct the appropriate "area" from the setup menu (CD area,
>2-Channel Stereo area, or 5.1 Multichannel area). Once you choose one of
>these, the on-screen track listing has this choice diaplayed at the top
>(whether this is being detected from the disc, I don't know). I've watched
>the LED display, and there don't appear to be any relevant LED indicators -
>just a red "5.1CH" that's always on no matter what.
>I do notice that when "CD area" is selected, the SACD text on the LED
>display changed to "CD" - so I guess it's doing something.
>

All this plus my viewing of the manual suggests that the 656 is not
SACd compatible. What does it say on page 10 (of 80) in the manual
about SACD? Is there a footnote about the 655?

>Out of interest, does any one out there own this disc? At the moment I don't
>know whether I even SHOULD be getting anything out of the rear speakers !!!

I have that disc and, yes, there should be a lot of sound coming from
the rear speakers.

Kal

[Harry Lavo]

"Tim Roberson" > wrote in message
...
> > Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Is their any indicator light
> > that should be on when playing SACD surround (according to the manual).
> If
> > so, is it on when the disk is playing? This will help isolate whether
the
> > issue is with the tracking versus with the decoding/amplification.
>
> The manual really doesn't go into much detail for SACD, apart from
> describing how to selct the appropriate "area" from the setup menu (CD
area,
> 2-Channel Stereo area, or 5.1 Multichannel area). Once you choose one of
> these, the on-screen track listing has this choice diaplayed at the top
> (whether this is being detected from the disc, I don't know). I've watched
> the LED display, and there don't appear to be any relevant LED
indicators -
> just a red "5.1CH" that's always on no matter what.
> I do notice that when "CD area" is selected, the SACD text on the LED
> display changed to "CD" - so I guess it's doing something.
>
> Out of interest, does any one out there own this disc? At the moment I
don't
> know whether I even SHOULD be getting anything out of the rear speakers
!!!

Yes, the DSOTM SACD disk has multi-channel on it. I understand their are
several "pressing" versions of it from different plants but I don't know how
to tell them apart. The sound on mine is spectacular in surround.

You may want to make sure you have a SACD disk since the cd and sacd covers
bear more than a little resemblance. Do you hear a sound difference when you
play the SACD vs CD layer? Do the lights on the panel continue to say SACD?

My disk has the SACD logo on the disk itself, along with a Capital Records
logo and a compact disk logo. On the back of the jewel case is bar-coded
2435-82136-2 in the upper right corner, and in fine print in a box lower
right says "this product is a Hybrid SACD designed to play in both CD and
SACD players, as well as SACD-compatible DVD players. The 5.1 SACD Surround
Sound Mix requires a Mulit-Channel SACD player or compatible surround sound
system." The spine of the disk has the same number as the barcode,
followed by "-US". If yours matches this description, the disk definitely
should have the 5.1 mix on it. As far as I have heard, their is nowhere
produced a "stereo only" version of the disk, even if you have a European
version.

Hope this helps.

[Steven Sullivan]

Harry Lavo > wrote:
> "Tim Roberson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> > Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Is their any indicator light
>> > that should be on when playing SACD surround (according to the manual).
>> If
>> > so, is it on when the disk is playing? This will help isolate whether
> the
>> > issue is with the tracking versus with the decoding/amplification.
>>
>> The manual really doesn't go into much detail for SACD, apart from
>> describing how to selct the appropriate "area" from the setup menu (CD
> area,
>> 2-Channel Stereo area, or 5.1 Multichannel area). Once you choose one of
>> these, the on-screen track listing has this choice diaplayed at the top
>> (whether this is being detected from the disc, I don't know). I've watched
>> the LED display, and there don't appear to be any relevant LED
> indicators -
>> just a red "5.1CH" that's always on no matter what.
>> I do notice that when "CD area" is selected, the SACD text on the LED
>> display changed to "CD" - so I guess it's doing something.
>>
>> Out of interest, does any one out there own this disc? At the moment I
> don't
>> know whether I even SHOULD be getting anything out of the rear speakers
> !!!

> Yes, the DSOTM SACD disk has multi-channel on it. I understand their are
> several "pressing" versions of it from different plants but I don't know how
> to tell them apart. The sound on mine is spectacular in surround.

> You may want to make sure you have a SACD disk since the cd and sacd covers
> bear more than a little resemblance.

? THe CD only releases from years past
have black covers with the famous prism. The SACD's cover
is night-blue with a colored prism.

--
-S.

[Steven Sullivan]

Tim Roberson > wrote:
>> Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Is their any indicator light
>> that should be on when playing SACD surround (according to the manual).
> If
>> so, is it on when the disk is playing? This will help isolate whether the
>> issue is with the tracking versus with the decoding/amplification.

> The manual really doesn't go into much detail for SACD, apart from
> describing how to selct the appropriate "area" from the setup menu (CD area,
> 2-Channel Stereo area, or 5.1 Multichannel area). Once you choose one of
> these, the on-screen track listing has this choice diaplayed at the top
> (whether this is being detected from the disc, I don't know). I've watched
> the LED display, and there don't appear to be any relevant LED indicators -
> just a red "5.1CH" that's always on no matter what.
> I do notice that when "CD area" is selected, the SACD text on the LED
> display changed to "CD" - so I guess it's doing something.

> Out of interest, does any one out there own this disc? At the moment I don't
> know whether I even SHOULD be getting anything out of the rear speakers !!!

Yes, you should. It's a bit conservative as surround mixes go, but there's
certainly surround content.

--
-S.

[Steven Sullivan]

Tim Roberson > wrote:
> If only it was that easy!

> I don't know which model you're referring to, but the uk version (DV-656A)
> is both an SACD player and DVD-Audio player. See
> http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=2007&taxonomy_id=45-64

The UK/european model is called the DV-656A-S or 656A-K, depending on color,
according to the Pioneer Europe website, and can read SACDs

The US version is just: DV-656A, comes in one color AFAIK, and does not play SACDs.

[Kalman Rubinson]

On 7 Jul 2003 23:21:17 GMT, Steven Sullivan > wrote:

>Tim Roberson > wrote:
>> If only it was that easy!
>
>> I don't know which model you're referring to, but the uk version (DV-656A)
>> is both an SACD player and DVD-Audio player. See
>> http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=2007&taxonomy_id=45-64
>
>The UK/european model is called the DV-656A-S or 656A-K, depending on color,
>according to the Pioneer Europe website, and can read SACDs
>
>The US version is just: DV-656A, comes in one color AFAIK, and does not play SACDs.

Apparently, the DV-655 does the SACDs but I've never seen one.

Kal

[TChelvam]

Did you mod your player?

> Since my original post, I've also tried connecting the SURROUND L/R
> channels, on their own, direct into the known working CD inputs of my stereo
> hifi amp. Even at full volume, I get onlay a barely audible signal (more
> likey the result of cross-talk, i'd imagine).

[Tim Roberson]

I'm in the UK, where I suspect the spec is different to the US model
To see the european manual, try here and search for DV-656A...
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/support_manuals.jsp?category=support/manuals

"Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message
news:3_jOa.1031$ye4.1359@sccrnsc01...
> On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:36:09 GMT, "Tim Roberson" >
> wrote:
>
> >If only it was that easy!
> >
> >I don't know which model you're referring to, but the uk version
(DV-656A)
> >is both an SACD player and DVD-Audio player. See
>
>http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=2007&taxonomy_id=
45-64
> >
> >Maybe that's why I get those annoying SACD menu options ? ;-)
> >Nice try, though.
>
> Well, the Pioneer site I accessed has no mention of SACD on this
> player at all
>
(http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/HomeProducts/HomeProductDetai
ls/0,1422,71365,00.html
>
> However, other references to it do indicate that it is supposed to be
> a Universal player.
>
> OTOH, the manual that Pioneer offers in PDF indicates that the 655,
> not the 656, is SACD compatible. Fascinating.
>
> Kal
>
> >
> >"Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message
> >news:Iz0Oa.53753$fG.38117@sccrnsc01...
> >> Simple. The DVD 656A is not an SACD player. It plays CD, DVD, DVD-A,
> >> MP3, etc. but not SACDs according to the Pioneer website. I am
> >> surprised you even get those menu choices.
> >>
> >> Kal
> >>
> >> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 17:58:22 GMT, "Tim Roberson" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I've just bought my first SACD disc - Dark Side of the Moon
> >> >Played it on my Pioneer DVD 656A player, but as far as I can tell, I'm
> >> >getting nothing from my rear speakers.
> >> >Can anyone tell me if I should be? I understood this was a 5.1 mix.
> >> >
> >> >Here's how it's set up:
> >> >The DVD player connects to my surround amp using the 6 analogue
> >connections,
> >> >and I then select the "6-channel analogue" as input on my amp. I run
the
> >DVD
> >> >player's test tones, and get sound from all the speakers in turn. So
> >things
> >> >look OK so far.
> >> >
> >> >When set up this way, I tested using both DTS and Dolby Digital DVD
> >discs,
> >> >and get sound from all speakers. Again - so far, so good.
> >> >
> >> >Time to try the SACD...
> >> >Going through the player's menus, there are 3 options for SACD
playback
> >(CD
> >> >/ SACD stereo / SACD surround). SACD surround seems the obvious
choice,
> >so I
> >> >take that setting. I put the Pink Floyd disc in, and I get "SACD"
> >illuminate
> >> >on the player's display panel.....Still looking good.
> >> >
> >> >I now play the disc, but get stereo only. It's the same no matter
which
> >SACD
> >> >option I select.
> >> >Is this what the disc is supposed to do, or can anyone suggest where
I'm
> >> >going wrong?
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for any help
> >>
>

[Tim Roberson]

"TChelvam" > wrote in message
news:E3pOa.1296$OZ2.225@rwcrnsc54...
> Did you mod your player?

Interesting you should mention that, as it's crossed my mind that this could
be causing problems.
The answer is yes - it was bought pre-modded (www.techtronics.com)
They've agreed to take it back for testing, so that's what I'm gonna do

[Tim Roberson]

> Yes, the DSOTM SACD disk has multi-channel on it. I understand their are
> several "pressing" versions of it from different plants but I don't know
how
> to tell them apart. The sound on mine is spectacular in surround.
>
> You may want to make sure you have a SACD disk since the cd and sacd
covers
> bear more than a little resemblance. Do you hear a sound difference when
you
> play the SACD vs CD layer? Do the lights on the panel continue to say
SACD?

There is a BIG difference between the CD and stereo SACD layers, and yes,
the player continues to show"SACD" when playing the disc

> My disk has the SACD logo on the disk itself, along with a Capital Records
> logo and a compact disk logo. On the back of the jewel case is bar-coded
> 2435-82136-2 in the upper right corner, and in fine print in a box lower
> right says "this product is a Hybrid SACD designed to play in both CD and
> SACD players, as well as SACD-compatible DVD players. The 5.1 SACD
Surround
> Sound Mix requires a Mulit-Channel SACD player or compatible surround
sound
> system." The spine of the disk has the same number as the barcode,
> followed by "-US". If yours matches this description, the disk
definitely
> should have the 5.1 mix on it.

From your description, I definitely have the same SACD as you (minus the
"-US" bit)
Thanks for the info - at least I know the disk is correct. I also changed it
yesterday in case it was corrupted in some way, but still no luck. The
retailer has agreed today to take the player and disc for testing, so I'll
see how that goes.

[Tim Roberson]

> Do any other SACDs work in the player?
>

At the moment, my SACD collection amounts to this one disc

[Steven Sullivan]

Tim Roberson > wrote:
> "TChelvam" > wrote in message
> news:E3pOa.1296$OZ2.225@rwcrnsc54...
>> Did you mod your player?

> Interesting you should mention that, as it's crossed my mind that this could
> be causing problems.
> The answer is yes - it was bought pre-modded (www.techtronics.com)

Oy vey! NOW you tell us.

--
-S.

[David Andrews]

Steven Sullivan > wrote in message >...
> Tim Roberson > wrote:
> > "TChelvam" > wrote in message
> > news:E3pOa.1296$OZ2.225@rwcrnsc54...
> >> Did you mod your player?
>
> > Interesting you should mention that, as it's crossed my mind that this could
> > be causing problems.
> > The answer is yes - it was bought pre-modded (www.techtronics.com)
>
> Oy vey! NOW you tell us.

Hi

I was wondering how you have got on with this. I have just bought a
DV656A from Techtronics with the standard multimod upgrade and am
trying to work out if I am getting all the surround I should be on
SACDs.

I would be interested to know if their upgrade as any unexpected side
effects or whether (if there was a problem with your player) it was a
one-off.

Cheers
David