vintage small speakers: opinions?

[Michael Salmons]

Hello,

I'm looking to complete a vintage system in the family room with a set
of small speakers. I could get some modern speakers but I'm interested
in maintaining the vintage vibe. The speakers I'm considering (who
knows when I'll next see a pair, but that's part of the fun) are:

Goodmans Maximus
Realistic Minimus (supposedly a knockoff of the maximus)
the various LS3/5a incarnations.
This is a longshot- never read a review of these at all- Bang and
Olufsen Type B

questions:

-I know the LS3/5as are in a, shall we say, unique price bracket. Are
they really that good? I hear they are not strong on bass but I don't
expect huge bass from small speakers, either. just well-balanced.

-Any other older speakers in small packages worth considering?

Thanks,

Michael Salmons
salmonsmATmissouriDOTedu

[Arny Krueger]

"Michael Salmons" > wrote in message
m
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking to complete a vintage system in the family room with a set
> of small speakers. I could get some modern speakers but I'm interested
> in maintaining the vintage vibe. The speakers I'm considering (who
> knows when I'll next see a pair, but that's part of the fun) are:

> Goodmans Maximus

Interesting.. Cheap LS3/5a knockoffs.

> Realistic Minimus (supposedly a knockoff of the maximus)

Good by standards of the day but pretty ****-poor by modern standards.

> the various LS3/5a incarnations.

Still a legend.

[Robert Morein]

"Michael Salmons" > wrote in message
m...
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking to complete a vintage system in the family room with a set
> of small speakers. I could get some modern speakers but I'm interested
> in maintaining the vintage vibe. The speakers I'm considering (who
> knows when I'll next see a pair, but that's part of the fun) are:
>
> Goodmans Maximus
> Realistic Minimus (supposedly a knockoff of the maximus)
> the various LS3/5a incarnations.
> This is a longshot- never read a review of these at all- Bang and
> Olufsen Type B
>
> questions:
>
> -I know the LS3/5as are in a, shall we say, unique price bracket. Are
> they really that good? I hear they are not strong on bass but I don't
> expect huge bass from small speakers, either. just well-balanced.
>
> -Any other older speakers in small packages worth considering?
>
> Thanks,
>
The LS3/5a, which was made by both Rogers and Spendor, have a unique sound,
apparently nonflat, and very satisfying, designed according to BBC
specifications. The intended use was a monitor speaker that would encourage
a certain type of mix. As professional tools sometimes do, these acquired a
cult following that may not be objectively justified.

Spendor made other speakers in addition to the LS3/5a that have a more
generally desirable frequency response.

ADS had some interesting offerings, some with an optional active crossover.

AR made interesting speakers. Those made after the early 80's have fairly
modern high frequency response characteristics. Earlier speakers are mellow,
or recessed. Foam replacement is required.

Older small speakers lack the extended bass and treble of modern designs. I
find the greatest possibility of satisfaction from speakers made no earlier
than the mid 80's. However, if you are interested in vintage sound, you may
desire speakers with restricted response.

Are you sure the novelty won't wear off?

[ReEfErMaDnEsS]

you really can't go wrong the older AR stuff

EPI made some really nice stuff, the tweeters are VERY nice

I like the older Pioneer stuff as well, although they are hard to find with
good grills, the lattice work is fragile to say the least

the old Wharfedale's are very good too


"Michael Salmons" > wrote in message
m...
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking to complete a vintage system in the family room with a set
> of small speakers. I could get some modern speakers but I'm interested
> in maintaining the vintage vibe. The speakers I'm considering (who
> knows when I'll next see a pair, but that's part of the fun) are:
>
> Goodmans Maximus
> Realistic Minimus (supposedly a knockoff of the maximus)
> the various LS3/5a incarnations.
> This is a longshot- never read a review of these at all- Bang and
> Olufsen Type B
>
> questions:
>
> -I know the LS3/5as are in a, shall we say, unique price bracket. Are
> they really that good? I hear they are not strong on bass but I don't
> expect huge bass from small speakers, either. just well-balanced.
>
> -Any other older speakers in small packages worth considering?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael Salmons
> salmonsmATmissouriDOTedu

[Joseph Oberlander]

Michael Salmons wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm looking to complete a vintage system in the family room with a set
> of small speakers. I could get some modern speakers but I'm interested
> in maintaining the vintage vibe. The speakers I'm considering (who
> knows when I'll next see a pair, but that's part of the fun) are:
>
> Goodmans Maximus
> Realistic Minimus (supposedly a knockoff of the maximus)
> the various LS3/5a incarnations.
> This is a longshot- never read a review of these at all- Bang and
> Olufsen Type B
>
> questions:
>
> -I know the LS3/5as are in a, shall we say, unique price bracket. Are
> they really that good? I hear they are not strong on bass but I don't
> expect huge bass from small speakers, either. just well-balanced.
>
> -Any other older speakers in small packages worth considering?

I'd look at the JBL Pro 4400 series. They've changed only a little
bit in nearly 30 years. The 4408s make excellent large bookshelf
speakers and www.musiciansfriend.com has them for not a lot of money.

[Marc Phillips]

Michael Salmons said:

>Hello,
>
>I'm looking to complete a vintage system in the family room with a set
>of small speakers. I could get some modern speakers but I'm interested
>in maintaining the vintage vibe. The speakers I'm considering (who
>knows when I'll next see a pair, but that's part of the fun) are:
>
>Goodmans Maximus
>Realistic Minimus (supposedly a knockoff of the maximus)
>the various LS3/5a incarnations.
>This is a longshot- never read a review of these at all- Bang and
>Olufsen Type B
>
>questions:
>
>-I know the LS3/5as are in a, shall we say, unique price bracket. Are
>they really that good? I hear they are not strong on bass but I don't
>expect huge bass from small speakers, either. just well-balanced.
>
>-Any other older speakers in small packages worth considering?

Although they're a bit bigger than your average bookshelf speakers, I don't
think you could do better than Spendor BC-1s. And yes, LS3/5as are worth it.
My favorite small speaker is the Spica TC-50, but its performance is anything
but vintage.

Boon

[Michael Scarpitti]

(Michael Salmons) wrote in message >...
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking to complete a vintage system in the family room with a set
> of small speakers. I could get some modern speakers but I'm interested
> in maintaining the vintage vibe. The speakers I'm considering (who
> knows when I'll next see a pair, but that's part of the fun) are:
>
> Goodmans Maximus
> Realistic Minimus (supposedly a knockoff of the maximus)
> the various LS3/5a incarnations.
> This is a longshot- never read a review of these at all- Bang and
> Olufsen Type B
>
> questions:
>
> -I know the LS3/5as are in a, shall we say, unique price bracket. Are
> they really that good? I hear they are not strong on bass but I don't
> expect huge bass from small speakers, either. just well-balanced.
>
> -Any other older speakers in small packages worth considering?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael Salmons
> salmonsmATmissouriDOTedu


Advents.

[Robert Morein]

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...
[snip]
>
> Although they're a bit bigger than your average bookshelf speakers, I
don't
> think you could do better than Spendor BC-1s. And yes, LS3/5as are worth
it.
> My favorite small speaker is the Spica TC-50, but its performance is
anything
> but vintage.
>
> Boon

Second that.

[Michael Salmons]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message >...
> "Michael Salmons" > wrote in message

<snip>

> Older small speakers lack the extended bass and treble of modern designs. I
> find the greatest possibility of satisfaction from speakers made no earlier
> than the mid 80's. However, if you are interested in vintage sound, you may
> desire speakers with restricted response.
>
> Are you sure the novelty won't wear off?

That's a thought-provoking question Robert, for sure. I suppose it
would depend on the speaker. I've tried a variety of midsized
bookshelf designs in my living room, and I keep coming back to my pair
of Celestion Ditton 15s. There's something very seductive about that
speaker's sound I just can't find in modern speakers (that I have had
the pleasure of auditioning, at least). in my price range, that is.
That's not saying a whole lot, though; I've only compared them to a
few designs (KEF Cresta 2 and B&W DM602 among them, however). I sure
I'm romanticizing to think I'll find the same magic in an unrelated,
smaller pair of older speakers. But I thought I might try, anyway.
Thanks to everyone for your responses, they have been very helpful.
think I'll keep an eye open for the Spicas.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Michael Salmons wrote:

> That's a thought-provoking question Robert, for sure. I suppose it
> would depend on the speaker. I've tried a variety of midsized
> bookshelf designs in my living room, and I keep coming back to my pair
> of Celestion Ditton 15s. There's something very seductive about that
> speaker's sound I just can't find in modern speakers (that I have had
> the pleasure of auditioning, at least). in my price range, that is.
> That's not saying a whole lot, though; I've only compared them to a
> few designs (KEF Cresta 2 and B&W DM602 among them, however).

Try a pair of JBL 4408As - they have the same sound. I find the B&W and
Cresta and simmilar to be utterly worthless on the low-end and just
don't sound as well-rounded. Obviously, they are made with the all
but required subwoofer in mind.

Two noteable exceptions, though, are the NoRH line - which sound
great, if a bit odd looking, and the Athena S3 bookshelf speaker.
It's not a JBL or Celestion or older AR design, but the 3-way
setup in a small box makes for a very clean and tight sounding
speaker. They obviously traded off the bass limits on the 8 inch
speaker for a better mid-bass response - so the 1/6/8 design really
does sound great.

> I sure
> I'm romanticizing to think I'll find the same magic in an unrelated,
> smaller pair of older speakers. But I thought I might try, anyway.
> Thanks to everyone for your responses, they have been very helpful.
> think I'll keep an eye open for the Spicas.

Those three would be my suggestion. The Athenas are going to be hard
to find, though - because the S3 aren't sold at the mass marketers
like the other Athena lines. Same goes for NoRH - bit hard to find.

The JBL 4408As, toho, are a cinch to locate. They also make a
4200 series speaker which is pretty good if you need something smaller.
They're what I own right now - a 4208 center, two 4408s(previous series,
noty as good crossiver as the A series) or the rears, and two 4410s for
the front.

No subwoofer. None is required. Totally unlike the cheap stuff
they are designing now - heavy cabinets and magnets, an 8 inch
woofer, and the +/- 2% accuracy helps as well :) Easy to drive
as well - 40-50wpc is more than enough as these aren't 4 ohm
speakers.

The 4200 series are 15.75*9*9.5 inches for the 4206, so this
isn't really so bad, size-wise. They are shielded, so are
worth mentioning.

The 4408As, are 17.25*12*11.75 - so a bit larger, as well as
front ported. The front port and modest size combined with
the 8 inch woofer makes for a great large bookshelf speaker -
that can actually be placed on a bookshelf, unlike almost all
rear ported speakers.

Also, the front port throws the sound AT you - which is probably
why the rear-ported Crestas left you feeling so blah about them.
No "oomph" at the low end. The B&W 602s are thankfully front
ported, but somehow don't get the bass you'd expect. The internal
volume of the Crestas is much smaller, and yet the B&Ws don't
reach down as far as the JBLs or Crestas. Odd.

The 50hz low-end is -2db, and they will put out clean 35hz
bass at -10db, which while not equal to a subwoofer, is certinly
better than a pint-sized cube that just dissapears at 45hz
or so.

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/recording/4400.htm

The Cresta 2:
http://www.kef.com/history/1990_2/cresta_1999-02/cresta2.htm
Note the decent bass response and 14.4*8*9.9 in.(with grille)
1082.88 cubic inches(.5 inch grill not included) Rear port is
a drawback, though.

The B&W 602: Nearly the same specs as the Cresta 2. 49hz low end.
19.3*9.3*11.5 in. 2064.135 cubic inches. Front port.

The 4408A: 17.25*12*11.75 2277 cubic inches. Roughly the
same visual size as the B&W 602s, IME - as I find height to
be more noticeable than width - but YMMV.

So - you have the Crestas, which have good bass for their size,
but it's muffled a bit due to the rear port(plus no air thrown at
you from it) - the 602s, which have the front port and good cabinet
size, yet thin bass, and the JBLs which do good bass and have a
front port, as well as have better accuracy.

My guess is that it's because the B&Ws have a stiffer, 7 inch
woofer with less excursion than the JBL. They seem to sound
GREAT but literally hit a wall at about 40-45hz, while the bigger
8 inch JBL driver is somewhat looser and goes down that extra few
notes. That's all I can figure, as based upon cabinet volume, the
602 and 4408A should both have identical bass - but they plainly
don't.

I listen to speakers every few months and so far can't really
find a reason to toss out my old JBLs except to maybe go to
planars or simmilar designs. Oh - the JBLs are made in the U.S.,
which is a tiny plus. :)

Oh - here's a link:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040302144646024205072226300426/g=home/search/d=tp?q=jbl+44
if it wraps, cut and paste - or go to their site and type
"JBL 44" in the search field.

$299 each, with free shipping and in most cases, no tax.
That's a decent deal, IMO. What I would do is go to a local
pro-audio store(keyboards/amps/stage equipment) or call JBL
and ask them for a local place to buy them/distributor.

Go in and listen to them. Then, if you like them, get the
deal at the above site. They're legit - btw - I've ordered
several items from them with no problems.

[Robert Morein]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Michael Salmons wrote:
>
> > That's a thought-provoking question Robert, for sure. I suppose it
> > would depend on the speaker. I've tried a variety of midsized
> > bookshelf designs in my living room, and I keep coming back to my pair
> > of Celestion Ditton 15s. There's something very seductive about that
> > speaker's sound I just can't find in modern speakers (that I have had
> > the pleasure of auditioning, at least). in my price range, that is.
> > That's not saying a whole lot, though; I've only compared them to a
> > few designs (KEF Cresta 2 and B&W DM602 among them, however).
>
> Try a pair of JBL 4408As - they have the same sound. I find the B&W and
> Cresta and simmilar to be utterly worthless on the low-end and just
> don't sound as well-rounded. Obviously, they are made with the all
> but required subwoofer in mind.
>
If that's what he's after, the Dynaco A25 should also be considered.
Unlike the modern B&W you despise, the Dyna has a nice false bass presence
that's very much part of the vintage era.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Robert Morein wrote:

> "Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>
>>Michael Salmons wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That's a thought-provoking question Robert, for sure. I suppose it
>>>would depend on the speaker. I've tried a variety of midsized
>>>bookshelf designs in my living room, and I keep coming back to my pair
>>>of Celestion Ditton 15s. There's something very seductive about that
>>>speaker's sound I just can't find in modern speakers (that I have had
>>>the pleasure of auditioning, at least). in my price range, that is.
>>>That's not saying a whole lot, though; I've only compared them to a
>>>few designs (KEF Cresta 2 and B&W DM602 among them, however).
>>
>>Try a pair of JBL 4408As - they have the same sound. I find the B&W and
>>Cresta and simmilar to be utterly worthless on the low-end and just
>>don't sound as well-rounded. Obviously, they are made with the all
>>but required subwoofer in mind.
>>
>
> If that's what he's after, the Dynaco A25 should also be considered.
> Unlike the modern B&W you despise, the Dyna has a nice false bass presence
> that's very much part of the vintage era.

I never said I despise the B&Ws - lol - it's just that they somehow
have very little bass for their cabinet size. I heard almost no
difference between the 601 and 602s - which was a bit of a mind-bender
as I could easily see a large difference in volume.

The KEFs at nearly half the volume sound about the same - so
something is wrong with the fundamental design, IMO. My guess is
that the kevlar driver is too rigid to do low bass effectively,
despite the larger cabinet. I hear that the Martin Logan hybrids
with their aluminum woofers also suffer from this problem - very
precise but thin bass.

The Dynaco A25s aren't sold new, though. The JBLs haven't changed
much(better crossover now - no tweaking with that lame pot) from the
old designs - so as far as I know - other than maybe some old
Klipsch and Cerwin Vega designs, it's about your only choice if you
want a 25 year old speaker that's brand new. :)

[Marc Phillips]

MIchael Salmons said:

>Thanks to everyone for your responses, they have been very helpful.
>think I'll keep an eye open for the Spicas.

I've seen them in good shape on e-Bay occasionally for around $300. Because of
their wedge shape, however, it is common to see some of the sharp corners
banged up or even broken off. If you can find a pristine pair, I'd pay $400 or
more for them easily, even though their retail price a dozen years ago was only
$550.

It was a real shame when Spica ceased to exist as a company.

Boon

[Joseph Oberlander]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> Joseph Oberlander said:
>
>
>>>Unlike the modern B&W you despise, the Dyna has a nice false bass presence
>>>that's very much part of the vintage era.
>>
>>I never said I despise the B&Ws - lol - it's just that they somehow
>>have very little bass for their cabinet size.
>
>
> Are you two accusing Krooger of not being able to afford B&W
> speakers? LOL! Arnii wipes his ass with them.

Oh - he can afford them I suspect - just that I personally
don't like their cost/bass ratio. By comparison, the
Athena S3 whomps all over the 602s. Actually quite a nice
speaker.

Arny's just a cheapass. But that's not news, either. Lol.

http://www.athenaspeakers.com/modelS3.htm
You'll note two things right off - the 8 inch woofer and
the fact that it's not a lot bigger than a B&W 602.

Mated with the powered sub, it's a stunning tower, or
by itself, it's a great bookshelf. 24*9.5*12.75 inches is
larger than the 4408A, though.(207 sq inches front area
on the 4408A vs 228 on the S3 vs 221.95 for the 602s.)

Total cubic area is larger than the 602 or 4408A, so it does
bass quite well. The thin design is good if you mount it sideways
in a typical bookshelf. It does have a rear port, though - a bit
of a negative - so placement may be tricky as most true shelves are
12-14 inches deep, which means the port would be right against the
wall.

On the ends of a china cabinet or such with mounts or just sitting
on top - so that they have a foot or more behind them would be fine,
for example. $600 MSRP per pair.

95 db efficiency - this should be on the list for those looking
for bookshelves to run with a tube amp.

I'd still choose the 4408As over them - but the P3 subwoofer option
does turn these into full-range 20-20khz speakers with no crossover
or matching schemes - just set the HT system to large front speakers
and the crossover for the subwoofer to off. Sound is very good
this way, as you might expect. Each speaker would need its own
sub to be used this way. The P2 sub is also good - but IMO, if
you went this way, you'd be better off with at least one of the big subs
to get full-range sound. 20hz 4-way speakers are a bit of a rarity
these days - at least at this price.

If the OP is looking for a subwoofer down the line, these give
him a seamless option to turn these into tower speakers with
a sub in each - something to consider at least.

http://ww1.onecall.com/PID_17796.htm
$1800 for a pair of subs and bookshelves is a good deal.

[Marc Phillips]

Robert Morein said:

>"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
link.net...
>> Michael Salmons wrote:
>>
>> > That's a thought-provoking question Robert, for sure. I suppose it
>> > would depend on the speaker. I've tried a variety of midsized
>> > bookshelf designs in my living room, and I keep coming back to my pair
>> > of Celestion Ditton 15s. There's something very seductive about that
>> > speaker's sound I just can't find in modern speakers (that I have had
>> > the pleasure of auditioning, at least). in my price range, that is.
>> > That's not saying a whole lot, though; I've only compared them to a
>> > few designs (KEF Cresta 2 and B&W DM602 among them, however).
>>
>> Try a pair of JBL 4408As - they have the same sound. I find the B&W and
>> Cresta and simmilar to be utterly worthless on the low-end and just
>> don't sound as well-rounded. Obviously, they are made with the all
>> but required subwoofer in mind.
>>
>If that's what he's after, the Dynaco A25 should also be considered.
>Unlike the modern B&W you despise, the Dyna has a nice false bass presence
>that's very much part of the vintage era.

The Dynas are also one of the few vintage speakers that used rubber surrounds
instead of foam surrounds, which is another nice reason to buy them.

Boon

[ScottW]

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...
> Robert Morein said:
>
> The Dynas are also one of the few vintage speakers that used rubber
surrounds
> instead of foam surrounds, which is another nice reason to buy them.
>
> Boon

Except getting surrounds redone is no big deal. I've had my Advents and
Infinitys redone quite successfully.
A good condition speaker with rotten surrounds can be quite a steal :).

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
hlink.net
> George M. Middius wrote:
>
>>
>> Joseph Oberlander said:
>>
>>
>>>> Unlike the modern B&W you despise, the Dyna has a nice false bass
>>>> presence that's very much part of the vintage era.

>>> I never said I despise the B&Ws - lol - it's just that they somehow
>>> have very little bass for their cabinet size.

>> Are you two accusing Krooger of not being able to afford B&W
>> speakers? LOL! Arnii wipes his ass with them.

Actually, when it comes to British speakers, I'm more into KEF. Middius'
mumblings are just another example of how truth means nothing to him. Which
KEFs I own should be well-known. I've posted their model number more than 50
times.

> Oh - he can afford them I suspect - just that I personally
> don't like their cost/bass ratio. By comparison, the
> Athena S3 whomps all over the 602s. Actually quite a nice
> speaker.
>
> Arny's just a cheapass. But that's not news, either. Lol.

And you're just another big-mouthed fool, Oberlander.

Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5 years?

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:QPd1c.12583$id3.6801@fed1read01
> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Robert Morein said:
>>
>> The Dynas are also one of the few vintage speakers that used rubber
>> surrounds instead of foam surrounds, which is another nice reason to
>> buy them.
>>
>> Boon
>
> Except getting surrounds redone is no big deal. I've had my Advents
> and Infinitys redone quite successfully.
> A good condition speaker with rotten surrounds can be quite a steal
> :).

Talk about cheap-asses!

I've owned three pair of A-25s over the years including one pair bought in
Europe. They were competitive with current technology at a fairly low price
point when they were new. That was then, and this is now.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> > Arny's just a cheapass. But that's not news, either. Lol.
>
> And you're just another big-mouthed fool, Oberlander.
>
> Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5 years?
>

Are we gonna count your obsolete sound cards?
Arny has spent the most money for the least benefit.




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[Arny Krueger]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
>>> Arny's just a cheapass. But that's not news, either. Lol.
>>
>> And you're just another big-mouthed fool, Oberlander.
>>
>> Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5
>> years?
>>
>
> Are we gonna count your obsolete sound cards?
> Arny has spent the most money for the least benefit.

So Yustabe, you think you're Oberlander, too?

Man of many Usenet faces, I guess.

[S888Wheel]

>
>Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5 years?
>
>

You whine about audiophiles spending too much on equipment and yet you feel
compelled to get into an audiophile ****ing contest. We know what you have
Arny. If you spent a lot of money on it you are every bit the fool you claim to
suffer. But given your financial situaltion you may simply be grandstanding to
cover up that which shames you. It's OK not to be wealthy and it's OK not to be
able to afford the best. Maybe you should use your poverty as motivation to get
out and do something productive rather than let it defeat you and force you to
become a recluse who lives vicariously through Usenet.

[Michael Salmons]

"ReEfErMaDnEsS" > wrote in message news:<yXO0c.450459$na.1090560@attbi_s04>...
> you really can't go wrong the older AR stuff
>
> EPI made some really nice stuff, the tweeters are VERY nice
>
<snip>

Have you heard the EPI M-50s, by any chance? Any good? Those are about
the right size for my needs.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>> Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5
>> years?

<Non-responsive answer deleted.>

Wanna try answering the question this time?

[S888Wheel]

>
>>You whine about audiophiles spending too much on equipment and yet you feel
>>compelled to get into an audiophile ****ing contest. We know what you have
>>Arny. If you spent a lot of money on it you are every bit the fool you claim
>to
>>suffer. But given your financial situaltion you may simply be grandstanding
>to
>>cover up that which shames you. It's OK not to be wealthy and it's OK not to
>be
>>able to afford the best. Maybe you should use your poverty as motivation to
>get
>>out and do something productive rather than let it defeat you and force you
>to
>>become a recluse who lives vicariously through Usenet.
>
>LOL! You've gotta be joking, right?

I figure even Arny should get some positive reinforcement in his life.

>Arnii is content to wallow in
>non-achievement-bigged-up-as-success. He is spared the rough and
>tumble of real-world hard work, which he is utterly incapable of
>coping with.

So it would seem. Cetainly this would explain his bitterness.


>Can you imagine any employer putting up with his
>bull****?
>

No

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message


:Lied and claimed to have posted the following:

>>> You whine about audiophiles spending too much on equipment and yet
>>> you feel compelled to get into an audiophile ****ing contest. We
>>> know what you have Arny. If you spent a lot of money on it you are
>>> every bit the fool you claim to suffer. But given your financial
>>> situaltion you may simply be grandstanding to cover up that which
>>> shames you. It's OK not to be wealthy and it's OK not to be able to
>>> afford the best. Maybe you should use your poverty as motivation to
>>> get out and do something productive rather than let it defeat you
>> and force you to become a recluse who lives vicariously through
>>> Usenet.

But he didn't.

[S888Wheel]

>
>"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>
>:Lied and claimed to have posted the following:
>
>>>> You whine about audiophiles spending too much on equipment and yet
>>>> you feel compelled to get into an audiophile ****ing contest. We
>>>> know what you have Arny. If you spent a lot of money on it you are
>>>> every bit the fool you claim to suffer. But given your financial
>>>> situaltion you may simply be grandstanding to cover up that which
>>>> shames you. It's OK not to be wealthy and it's OK not to be able to
>>>> afford the best. Maybe you should use your poverty as motivation to
>>>> get out and do something productive rather than let it defeat you
>>> and force you to become a recluse who lives vicariously through
>>>> Usenet.
>
>But he didn't.

Looks like a total meltdown.

[S888Wheel]

>>> Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5
>>> years?
>
><Non-responsive answer deleted.>
>
>Wanna try answering the question this time?
>

You didn't ask *me* a question dip****.

[ScottW]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message >...
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> news:QPd1c.12583$id3.6801@fed1read01
> > "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Robert Morein said:
> >>
> >> The Dynas are also one of the few vintage speakers that used rubber
> >> surrounds instead of foam surrounds, which is another nice reason to
> >> buy them.
> >>
> >> Boon
> >
> > Except getting surrounds redone is no big deal. I've had my Advents
> > and Infinitys redone quite successfully.
> > A good condition speaker with rotten surrounds can be quite a steal
> > :).
>
> Talk about cheap-asses!

I knew you'd approve.
>
> I've owned three pair of A-25s over the years including one pair bought in
> Europe. They were competitive with current technology at a fairly low price
> point when they were new. That was then, and this is now.

So what are you saying? That your A-25s are now completely useless
pieces of ****?

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>> "S888Wheel" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Lied and claimed to have posted the following:
>>
>>>>> You whine about audiophiles spending too much on equipment and yet
>>>>> you feel compelled to get into an audiophile ****ing contest. We
>>>>> know what you have Arny. If you spent a lot of money on it you are
>>>>> every bit the fool you claim to suffer. But given your financial
>>>>> situaltion you may simply be grandstanding to cover up that which
>>>>> shames you. It's OK not to be wealthy and it's OK not to be able
>>>>> to afford the best. Maybe you should use your poverty as
>>>>> motivation to get out and do something productive rather than let
>>>>> it defeat you
>>>> and force you to become a recluse who lives vicariously through
>>>>> Usenet.
>>
>> But he didn't.
>
> Looks like a total meltdown.

Since you wrote more than 90% of the text, yes indeed.

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>>> Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5
>>>> years?
>>
>> <Non-responsive answer deleted.>
>>
>> Wanna try answering the question this time?
>>
>
> You didn't ask *me* a question dip****.

Illiteracy is a terrible thing in an adult.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
om
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >...
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> news:QPd1c.12583$id3.6801@fed1read01
>>> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Robert Morein said:
>>>>
>>>> The Dynas are also one of the few vintage speakers that used rubber
>>>> surrounds instead of foam surrounds, which is another nice reason
>>>> to buy them.
>>>>
>>>> Boon
>>>
>>> Except getting surrounds redone is no big deal. I've had my Advents
>>> and Infinitys redone quite successfully.
>>> A good condition speaker with rotten surrounds can be quite a steal
>>> :).
>>
>> Talk about cheap-asses!
>
> I knew you'd approve.
>>
>> I've owned three pair of A-25s over the years including one pair
>> bought in Europe. They were competitive with current technology at a
>> fairly low price point when they were new. That was then, and this
>> is now.
>
> So what are you saying? That your A-25s are now completely useless
> pieces of ****?

Irrelevant given that I haven't owned an A-25 in over 30 years, on the
grounds that I had better speakers to listen to.

[S888Wheel]

>
>"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>>> "S888Wheel" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lied and claimed to have posted the following:
>>>
>>>>>> You whine about audiophiles spending too much on equipment and yet
>>>>>> you feel compelled to get into an audiophile ****ing contest. We
>>>>>> know what you have Arny. If you spent a lot of money on it you are
>>>>>> every bit the fool you claim to suffer. But given your financial
>>>>>> situaltion you may simply be grandstanding to cover up that which
>>>>>> shames you. It's OK not to be wealthy and it's OK not to be able
>>>>>> to afford the best. Maybe you should use your poverty as
>>>>>> motivation to get out and do something productive rather than let
>>>>>> it defeat you
>>>>> and force you to become a recluse who lives vicariously through
>>>>>> Usenet.
>>>
>>> But he didn't.
>>
>> Looks like a total meltdown.
>
>Since you wrote more than 90% of the text, yes indeed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

You just get funnier and funnier. Is there any point in telling you that you
just contradicted your own post? Nah.

[S888Wheel]

>>>>> Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5
>>>>> years?
>>>
>>> <Non-responsive answer deleted.>
>>>
>>> Wanna try answering the question this time?
>>>
>>
>> You didn't ask *me* a question dip****.
>
>Illiteracy is a terrible thing in an adult.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"Definately." It is even more terrible when it is compounded by such
susceptiblity to confusion. Have you figured out who you were talking to before
and who you are talking to now? It is easy to understand why you would think
that "Fold es Eg" (chuckle) is comparable to ELP.

[Don Maico]

Joseph Oberlander > wrote in message . net>...
> Robert Morein wrote:
>
> > "Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> > link.net...
> >
> >>Michael Salmons wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>That's a thought-provoking question Robert, for sure. I suppose it
> >>>would depend on the speaker. I've tried a variety of midsized
> >>>bookshelf designs in my living room, and I keep coming back to my pair
> >>>of Celestion Ditton 15s. There's something very seductive about that
> >>>speaker's sound I just can't find in modern speakers (that I have had
> >>>the pleasure of auditioning, at least). in my price range, that is.
> >>>That's not saying a whole lot, though; I've only compared them to a
> >>>few designs (KEF Cresta 2 and B&W DM602 among them, however).
> >>
> >>Try a pair of JBL 4408As - they have the same sound. I find the B&W and
> >>Cresta and simmilar to be utterly worthless on the low-end and just
> >>don't sound as well-rounded. Obviously, they are made with the all
> >>but required subwoofer in mind.
> >>
> >
> > If that's what he's after, the Dynaco A25 should also be considered.
> > Unlike the modern B&W you despise, the Dyna has a nice false bass presence
> > that's very much part of the vintage era.
>
> I never said I despise the B&Ws - lol - it's just that they somehow
> have very little bass for their cabinet size. I heard almost no
> difference between the 601 and 602s - which was a bit of a mind-bender
> as I could easily see a large difference in volume.
>
> The KEFs at nearly half the volume sound about the same - so
> something is wrong with the fundamental design, IMO. My guess is
> that the kevlar driver is too rigid to do low bass effectively,
> despite the larger cabinet. I hear that the Martin Logan hybrids
> with their aluminum woofers also suffer from this problem - very
> precise but thin bass.
>
> The Dynaco A25s aren't sold new, though. The JBLs haven't changed
> much(better crossover now - no tweaking with that lame pot) from the
> old designs - so as far as I know - other than maybe some old
> Klipsch and Cerwin Vega designs, it's about your only choice if you
> want a 25 year old speaker that's brand new. :)

if you want base then look no further than a pair of Tannoy
Westminsters. Failing that Loth do some nice hornloaded designs.

Most current speakers are crap in the bass region so if you cant
afford horn loaded , just go looking for decent midrange. Ls35a are a
classic design and no one made them better than Rogers - very rare, so
if you can get a p;air treasure them .

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "S888Wheel" > wrote in message
>
> >> "S888Wheel" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>
> >>> Lied and claimed to have posted the following:
> >>
> >>>>> You whine about audiophiles spending too much on equipment and yet
> >>>>> you feel compelled to get into an audiophile ****ing contest. We
> >>>>> know what you have Arny. If you spent a lot of money on it you are
> >>>>> every bit the fool you claim to suffer. But given your financial
> >>>>> situaltion you may simply be grandstanding to cover up that which
> >>>>> shames you. It's OK not to be wealthy and it's OK not to be able
> >>>>> to afford the best. Maybe you should use your poverty as
> >>>>> motivation to get out and do something productive rather than let
> >>>>> it defeat you
> >>>> and force you to become a recluse who lives vicariously through
> >>>>> Usenet.
> >>
> >> But he didn't.
> >
> > Looks like a total meltdown.
>
> Since you wrote more than 90% of the text, yes indeed.
>
>

So, now you are crediting wheel with writing your responses!




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Joseph Oberlander]

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
>>
>>>Arny's just a cheapass. But that's not news, either. Lol.
>>
>>And you're just another big-mouthed fool, Oberlander.
>>
>>Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5 years?
>>
>
>
> Are we gonna count your obsolete sound cards?
> Arny has spent the most money for the least benefit.

Which is the definition of a cheapass. Lots of money wasted on
half-assed solutions rather than doing it right the first time.

[Joseph Oberlander]

S888Wheel wrote:

>>>>Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5
>>>>years?
>>
>><Non-responsive answer deleted.>
>>
>>Wanna try answering the question this time?
>>
>
>
> You didn't ask *me* a question dip****.

He gave me a few hours to respond(like I don't have a life or
other REAL things to do) and then because I didn't answer fast
enough for his liking, assumed that my non-answer was equivalent
to acquiescence.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> Since you wrote more than 90% of the text, yes indeed.

New game! Let's keep Arny bogged down on usenet 12 hours a day!

[Joseph Oberlander]

Don Maico wrote:

> if you want base then look no further than a pair of Tannoy
> Westminsters. Failing that Loth do some nice hornloaded designs.
>
> Most current speakers are crap in the bass region so if you cant
> afford horn loaded , just go looking for decent midrange. Ls35a are a
> classic design and no one made them better than Rogers - very rare, so
> if you can get a p;air treasure them .

Well, if he has the money - sure - those are superb "classic" speakers.

I wish I could afford a pair, but I'm more interested in a car that runs
and gets better than 15mpg lately. The "downpayment" thing is kind of
putting my audio budget in the negative zone lately.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
>
> S888Wheel wrote:
>
> >>>>Wanna compare your expenditures for audio with mine over the past 5
> >>>>years?
> >>
> >><Non-responsive answer deleted.>
> >>
> >>Wanna try answering the question this time?
> >>
> >
> >
> > You didn't ask *me* a question dip****.
>
> He gave me a few hours to respond(like I don't have a life or
> other REAL things to do) and then because I didn't answer fast
> enough for his liking, assumed that my non-answer was equivalent
> to acquiescence.
>

That's as close as he gets to victory.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
link.net...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > Since you wrote more than 90% of the text, yes indeed.
>
> New game! Let's keep Arny bogged down on usenet 12 hours a day!
>

He's a Borg, he can handle it.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[S888Wheel]

>
>New game! Let's keep Arny bogged down on usenet 12 hours a day!
>

What would be new about that?

[Arny Krueger]

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message

>> New game! Let's keep Arny bogged down on Usenet 12 hours a day!
>>
>
> What would be new about that?

Thanks for admitting that you and your friends are each working 12 hours a
day, every day in order to waste my time.

It confirms what I suspected - you have a ****-poor job and you have no
life. Or, you have no job and a ****-poor life. Which is it?

[S888Wheel]

>>> New game! Let's keep Arny bogged down on Usenet 12 hours a day!
>>>
>>
>> What would be new about that?
>
>Thanks for admitting that you and your friends are each working 12 hours a
>day, every day in order to waste my time.
>
>It confirms what I suspected - you have a ****-poor job and you have no
>life. Or, you have no job and a ****-poor life. Which is it?
>
>

Still struggling with English. Get back to us when you figure out what I
actually said. The answer to you question is you have no job and no life except
Usenet. Keep up the bitter fantasies Arny. I'm sure it eases your pain.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "S888Wheel" > wrote in message
>
>
>>>New game! Let's keep Arny bogged down on Usenet 12 hours a day!
>>>
>>
>>What would be new about that?
>
>
> Thanks for admitting that you and your friends are each working 12 hours a
> day, every day in order to waste my time.
>
> It confirms what I suspected - you have a ****-poor job and you have no
> life. Or, you have no job and a ****-poor life. Which is it?

Lol. As if - just said that to prove a point at how delusional you
are. Terribly easy to bait. Lol.

[Arny Krueger]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
link.net
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "S888Wheel" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>> New game! Let's keep Arny bogged down on Usenet 12 hours a day!
>>>>
>>>
>>> What would be new about that?
>>
>>
>> Thanks for admitting that you and your friends are each working 12
>> hours a day, every day in order to waste my time.
>>
>> It confirms what I suspected - you have a ****-poor job and you have
>> no life. Or, you have no job and a ****-poor life. Which is it?
>
> Lol. As if - just said that to prove a point at how delusional you
> are. Terribly easy to bait. Lol.

You indict yourself as you attack me. You seem to really want my attentiion.
Wife left you?

[Don Maico]

Joseph Oberlander > wrote in message . net>...
> Don Maico wrote:
>
> > if you want base then look no further than a pair of Tannoy
> > Westminsters. Failing that Loth do some nice hornloaded designs.
> >
> > Most current speakers are crap in the bass region so if you cant
> > afford horn loaded , just go looking for decent midrange. Ls35a are a
> > classic design and no one made them better than Rogers - very rare, so
> > if you can get a p;air treasure them .
>
> Well, if he has the money - sure - those are superb "classic" speakers.
>
> I wish I could afford a pair, but I'm more interested in a car that runs
> and gets better than 15mpg lately. The "downpayment" thing is kind of
> putting my audio budget in the negative zone lately.

How much would a pair of LS35a fetch in the US? Last time I saw them
on sale here in the UK they were going for about £800 ( $1440)new and
made by KEF.
Opinion seems to be very divided about them here. Some swear by them
others will say they are dated and somewhat coloured( blah blah blah!)
.. I listened to a pair of Rogers once fired by a modest NAD amp and
was completely bowled over by them . Unfortunately I could not afford
the price!They very rarely appear second hand and when they do are
also expensive which makes them worth hanging on to.Ideal for small
rooms( which I am told they were originally designed for)

[Michael Salmons]

(Don Maico) wrote in message >...
> Joseph Oberlander > wrote in message . net>...
> > Don Maico wrote:

<snip>

> How much would a pair of LS35a fetch in the US? Last time I saw them
> on sale here in the UK they were going for about £800 ( $1440)new and
> made by KEF.


a pair of rogers in teak just went for $1433 on ebay- from a canadian
seller- and a pair made by splendor sold for $700 (us seller) in some
sort of black finish.

[El Evans MMDeuce]

> Advents.


They should be called "Lents" instead because you give up so much...
Seriously Advent was the personification of Boston Bland. The LS3/5a
while not perfect was a pretty good speaker for its build cost and
size. If you don't need cod-whalloping ghetto bass and want modest
SPLs you will be basically a happy camper. I had mine, driven by a
pair of ST70s converted into monoblocks (is there a more fun .410
target than Dyna circuit boards?), for years while an apartment
dweller and they provide music in the hangar-driven by the 12 volt
Blaupunkt installed in my MAC toolbox-while I work on the bird.