Re: Determining source of LP distortion

[Blip]

Arny Krueger > wrote:

> >> Yes, it's because of the recristallisation phenomena. Slowly the
> >> metal atoms will fill the holes.
>
> The data isn't stored via holes in the metal, whether pressed or burned.

The data is stored via pits, which are areas in a "non-crystalline
amorphous phase" in a layer which has a polycrystalline structure.
Recrystallization means that the pits will slowly regain their initial
polycrystalline structure, and the record lose its data.

[Blip]

Arny Krueger > wrote:

> >> Yes, it's because of the recristallisation phenomena. Slowly the
> >> metal atoms will fill the holes.
>
> The data isn't stored via holes in the metal, whether pressed or burned.

The data is stored via pits, which are areas in a "non-crystalline
amorphous phase" in a layer which has a polycrystalline structure.
Recrystallization means that the pits will slowly regain their initial
polycrystalline structure, and the record lose its data.

[Arny Krueger]

"Blip" > wrote in message
news:1fzohfm.x8ebf81v3srcsN%miNOchel.staSPAMncic@c araMERmail.cCIom
> Arny Krueger > wrote:
>
>>>> Yes, it's because of the recristallisation phenomena. Slowly the
>>>> metal atoms will fill the holes.
>
>> The data isn't stored via holes in the metal, whether pressed or
>> burned.

> The data is stored via pits, which are areas in a "non-crystalline
> amorphous phase" in a layer which has a polycrystalline structure.

Irrelevant to the claim that "metal atoms will fill the holes".

> Recrystallization means that the pits will slowly regain their initial
> polycrystalline structure, and the record lose its data.


Irrelevant to the claim that "metal atoms will fill the holes".

[Arny Krueger]

"Blip" > wrote in message
news:1fzohyb.1kl32ssfr400N%miNOchel.staSPAMncic@ca raMERmail.cCIom
> Arny Krueger > wrote:
>
>>>> Yes, it's because of the recristallisation phenomena. Slowly the
>>>> metal atoms will fill the holes.
>>
>> The data isn't stored via holes in the metal, whether pressed or
>> burned.
>
> The data is stored via pits, which are areas in a "non-crystalline
> amorphous phase" in a layer which has a polycrystalline structure.
> Recrystallization means that the pits will slowly regain their initial
> polycrystalline structure, and the record lose its data.


Irrelevant to the claim that "metal atoms will fill the holes".

[Blip]

Arny Krueger > wrote:

> And isn't the
> > dye made of metal?
>
> Dyes are complex chemicals made up out of lots of different elements, not
> just metals.
>
I should have written "partially made of metal".
>
> > Nevermind, the point was the loss of data because of
> > recrystallization.
>
> If you abuse a LP or a CD there will be data loss. What's your point?

In this case, there's no "abuse". The recrystallization is a natural
tendency.

> > The description made was certainly inprecise and
> > inadequate, but the phenomena exists. Ask a physicist.
>
> The question is not whether the effect exists, but whether it's a problem,
> practically speaking.

Most people will certainly think it's not a problem, because the process
can take between 15 and 50 years, perhaps more in very good storage
conditions. It depends also of the composition of the dye. I assume that
a very close examination of the very first CDs made in the 80's (so 20
years ago) would give an idea of the time it will take before the CD
becomes unreadable.

[Arny Krueger]

"Blip" > wrote in message
news:1fzophi.18cqvbvbvtp05N%miNOchel.staSPAMncic@c araMERmail.cCIom
> Arny Krueger > wrote:
>
>> And isn't the
>>> dye made of metal?
>>
>> Dyes are complex chemicals made up out of lots of different
>> elements, not just metals.

> I should have written "partially made of metal".

Some dyes contain no metals at all.

>>> Nevermind, the point was the loss of data because of
>>> recrystallization.

>> If you abuse a LP or a CD there will be data loss. What's your point?

> In this case, there's no "abuse". The recrystallization is a natural
> tendency.

There's a natural tendency of vinyl to cold flow. If you're going to discuss
the two media shouldn't your comparison of the disadvantages of both be
complete and accurate?

>>> The description made was certainly imprecise and
>>> inadequate, but the phenomena exists. Ask a physicist.

>> The question is not whether the effect exists, but whether it's a
>> problem, practically speaking.

> Most people will certainly think it's not a problem, because the
> process can take between 15 and 50 years, perhaps more in very good
> storage conditions.

Why not admit it, nobody knows for sure what the future holds that far out.

> It depends also of the composition of the dye. I
> assume that a very close examination of the very first CDs made in
> the 80's (so 20 years ago) would give an idea of the time it will
> take before the CD becomes unreadable.

Been there, done that - if stored with even minimal care, nothing
significant changes. OTOH all the vinyl I had in the 80's seems to have
totally disappeared, on the grounds of substandard sound quality.

[Dan McGuire]

LOL. A couple of times I accidently left LP's out in the sun. They
don't play so well any more, either.

Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> If you store the recorded CD in cool dry dark place, it stays that way for
> decades, perhaps more than 100 years. If you hang a CD-R on your clothes
> line, it will probably be unplayable by the end of the week.

[Arny Krueger]

"Dan McGuire" > wrote in message


> Arny Krueger wrote:

>> If you store the recorded CD in cool dry dark place, it stays that
>> way for decades, perhaps more than 100 years. If you hang a CD-R on
>> your clothes line, it will probably be unplayable by the end of the
>> week.

> LOL. A couple of times I accidentally left LP's out in the sun. They
> don't play so well any more, either.

Right. Been there, done that.


Net, LPs are a lot more fragile in typical use than CDs. But they aren't
indestructable.

[Lived EHT]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:04:37 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>> LOL. A couple of times I accidentally left LP's out in the sun. They
>> don't play so well any more, either.
>
>Right. Been there, done that.

That was a bird table, not a turntable, dickhead.*

--
Thine

* I accidentally typed 'duckhead'. Do you prefer that to 'dickhead'?
I'm quite flexible on this point.

[MikeC]

Hi Everyone,

One other issue that hasn't been raise in this discussion is the ability
to backup and archive your media. It's fairly trivial for most people to
create backup copies of their CD's. Doing the same with an LP isn't
quite so easy.

My company offers a digital LP-to-CD service specifically to provide
people with this option. Once you've moved your LP's to CD's, it cheaper
and easier to create a number of backups. You can use one CD to play and
another as a backup; tucked away from sunlight, moisture, etc. Plus
you're maintaining the condition of the original LP.

Mike
info @ audible . ca

[Arny Krueger]

"SigNAIL" > wrote in message


> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

>> Watch snuff films much?

> Right. Been there, done that.

Sad.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...

> If you hang a CD-R on your clothes
> line, it will probably be unplayable by the end of the week.
>

Whatsa matter? Too poor to afford a clothes dryer machine?
You shouldn't have spent the $10,000 on 'obsolete' sound cards.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---