Tricky Question in Electronics Re: Silver Oxide

[TT]

Now this may sound a little strange but I am having a discussion
in another audio group and need some "hard evidence" on this
subject.

The other party has made this statement:

"Silver Oxide is an insulator - no resistance value can be
ascribed"

I believe it to be incorrect and at least Silver Oxide is a
semi-conductor or has a measurable resistance.

Despite intensive Googling I (or the other side for that matter)
can not find any reputable site that will verify/disprove this
point.

So guys I know there are some fairly cluey people out there so
how about offering an answer and some proof? Preferably
something referenced to a text book, university or research
institute. I am not interested in any "snake oil" sites.

One further point Silver Sulphate (the dark tarnish that forms)
is *not* the point in question I am only concerned with Silver
Oxide - Silver that has reacted only with oxygen.

Regards TT

TIA

[Trevor Wilson]

"TT" > wrote in message
...
> Now this may sound a little strange but I am having a discussion
> in another audio group and need some "hard evidence" on this
> subject.
>
> The other party has made this statement:
>
> "Silver Oxide is an insulator - no resistance value can be
> ascribed"

**sci.electronics.design would be a better group, IMO. PA hasn't posted
there in many months. He was laughed out of the place. There's some pretty
smart guys there too. I've checked through my partner's University chem
books, but had no luck in finding the information. Given that there's a
whole battery technology based around silver oxide, it is reasonable to
assume that the stuff is pretty conductive. I dunno enough about the
chemistry though.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[George M. Middius]

TT said:

> "Silver Oxide is an insulator - no resistance value can be
> ascribed"
>
> I believe it to be incorrect and at least Silver Oxide is a
> semi-conductor or has a measurable resistance.

"silver oxide is a better electrical conductor than copper"
<http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:PlKEYyY7hssJ:us.geocities.com/ok_ozkol/cable.htm+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insulator&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>

"Copper oxide is an insulator; by contrast, Silver oxide is a very
good conductor."
http://www.siltechcables.com/info/in.html

"An important benefit to the use of Silver is freedom from the
diode-like, energy storing and distortion producing effects of its
oxide (compression and other non-linear effects). This is because
Silver Oxide itself is such a superior conductor. Copper Oxide on
the other hand, is a semi conductor, a material a rectifier could
be made of!"
<http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:QTdL4TXXESEJ:www.silveraudio.com/papers1.html+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insulat or&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>

"Copper oxide is an insulator whereas silver oxide acts as a
conductor and has 40 times the conductivity."
<http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:JEO_oR2neckJ:www.romanmfg.com/files/causes/poorecon.htm+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insulat or&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>

[TT]

"Trevor Wilson" > wrote in message
...
:
: "TT" > wrote in message
: ...
: > Now this may sound a little strange but I am having a
discussion
: > in another audio group and need some "hard evidence" on this
: > subject.
: >
: > The other party has made this statement:
: >
: > "Silver Oxide is an insulator - no resistance value can be
: > ascribed"
:
: **sci.electronics.design would be a better group, IMO. PA
hasn't posted
: there in many months. He was laughed out of the place. There's
some pretty
: smart guys there too. I've checked through my partner's
University chem
: books, but had no luck in finding the information. Given that
there's a
: whole battery technology based around silver oxide, it is
reasonable to
: assume that the stuff is pretty conductive. I dunno enough
about the
: chemistry though.
:
:
: --
: Trevor Wilson
: www.rageaudio.com.au
:
:
And it used in medicine as well. I feel I could just about write
a thesis on this stuff except for this one small piece of
information ;-)

Regards TT

[TT]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
:
:
: TT said:
:
: > "Silver Oxide is an insulator - no resistance value can be
: > ascribed"
: >
: > I believe it to be incorrect and at least Silver Oxide is a
: > semi-conductor or has a measurable resistance.
:
: "silver oxide is a better electrical conductor than copper"
:
<http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:PlKEYyY7hssJ:us.geocities.c
om/ok_ozkol/cable.htm+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insulator&hl=
en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>
:
: "Copper oxide is an insulator; by contrast, Silver oxide is a
very
: good conductor."
: http://www.siltechcables.com/info/in.html
:
: "An important benefit to the use of Silver is freedom from the
: diode-like, energy storing and distortion producing effects of
its
: oxide (compression and other non-linear effects). This is
because
: Silver Oxide itself is such a superior conductor. Copper Oxide
on
: the other hand, is a semi conductor, a material a rectifier
could
: be made of!"
:
<http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:QTdL4TXXESEJ:www.silveraudi
o.com/papers1.html+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insulat or&hl=en&
lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>
:
: "Copper oxide is an insulator whereas silver oxide acts as a
: conductor and has 40 times the conductivity."
:
<http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:JEO_oR2neckJ:www.romanmfg.c
om/files/causes/poorecon.htm+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insula
tor&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>
:

Thankyou for that. To play the Devil's Advocate could it be
argued that "The cable manufactures have a vested interest in
this and so their *opinions* are biased and so can be
discounted"?

The welding site was good but lacked depth. I was hoping for a
definitive and unquestionable site that would be beyond reproach
;-)

Thanks TT

[George M. Middius]

TT said:

> :

Stop doing that.

> : "Copper oxide is an insulator whereas silver oxide acts as a
> : conductor and has 40 times the conductivity."

> :

Stop it, I say!

> Thankyou for that. To play the Devil's Advocate could it be
> argued that "The cable manufactures have a vested interest in
> this and so their *opinions* are biased and so can be
> discounted"?

I rather think the conductivity of a commonly occuring chemical
can be evaluated quantitatively and asserted factually.


> The welding site was good but lacked depth. I was hoping for a
> definitive and unquestionable site that would be beyond reproach
> ;-)

Try to get scientific then.

http://html.yonsei.ac.kr/fuelcell_eng.htm

You probably need to dig around for a physics handbook that has
some material on electrical conductivity. Try this:

http://www.amm.com/ref/conduct.HTM

[TT]

"Uptown Audio" > wrote in message
news:3f3684d6$0$13729$afc38c87@...
: Well, he is mistaken but that is easy enough as he has probably
just
: used copper/brass corrosion as a reference without pulling out
his
: chemical or electrical engineering handbook. From looking at it
from
: the outside, as most products are wired with copper, one would
assume
: that corrosion is an insulator and always damaging. From a true
: engineering/design standpoint, silver is what is spec'd in the
: applications that "must" work. For example, the military spec's
it's
: wires to be silverplated with teflon coating for many
applications.
: That's expensive, but when your life depend's upon, cost
becomes
: irrelevant. I was a manager at a transformer manufacturer years
ago
: and there was always concern about dissimilar metals in
relation to
: connected gear. In the case of copper, we often silver plated
bus to
: keep the contact resistance low. This prevented overheating of
the
: contacts in high current applications such as the various metro
: subways that are powered with our products. Aluminum was plated
with
: tin for the
: same reason. Just because a company sells a product does not
make
: their testimony less credible. In contrast, it give credance to
it in
: most situations. There is marketing hype, but companies
generally do
: research and development of the processes and materials that go
into
: their products to insure reliability. Customer satisfaction is
one
: reason and warranty claims are another. The object of quality
control
: is to increase the former and decrease the latter. You can look
at
: some chemistry studies and electrical transmission texts to get
more
: info if you really want to beat the poor fellow over the head.
See:
: http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/why_silver_plate.html
: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_HE605
: www.belden.de/daten/belflex_triax.pdf
: - Bill
: www.uptownaudio.com
: Roanoke VA
: (540) 343-1250
:

Thanks for these but.................

: http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/why_silver_plate.html these guys
appear to be a Ham Radio club.


: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_HE605 are confused with Silver
Sulphide


: www.belden.de/daten/belflex_triax.pdf doesn't mention Silver
Oxide

So I really need something very specific and there is huge
confusion with Silver Sulphide.

Thanks TT

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 21:20:40 -0400, George M. Middius
> wrote:

>
>
>TT said:
>
>> "Silver Oxide is an insulator - no resistance value can be
>> ascribed"
>>
>> I believe it to be incorrect and at least Silver Oxide is a
>> semi-conductor or has a measurable resistance.
>
>"silver oxide is a better electrical conductor than copper"
><http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:PlKEYyY7hssJ:us.geocities.com/ok_ozkol/cable.htm+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insulator&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>
>

********! Atomic oxygen sensors (rocket science, note) can be made
from thin films of silver which increase in resistance as they are
oxidized. Eventually the resistance goes way up (orders of magnitude).
Been there, done that.

"As silver is converted to its non-conducting oxide the resistance
increases" http://lasp.colorado.edu/strv/exp1a_strv.html

Heck, I suppose high-end silver oxide could be different.


>"Copper oxide is an insulator; by contrast, Silver oxide is a very
>good conductor."
>http://www.siltechcables.com/info/in.html
>

Hardly but at least(tm) it is soft.

"3.2.2. Silver oxide. - Silver oxide is easily broken down by contact
pressure and forms less readily at elevated temperature. Thus it is
good practice to silverplate copper contact surfaces that must be
operated at elevated temperatures." -
http://www.usbr.gov/power/data/fist/fist3_3/3_3_3.htm

>"An important benefit to the use of Silver is freedom from the
>diode-like, energy storing and distortion producing effects of its
>oxide (compression and other non-linear effects). This is because
>Silver Oxide itself is such a superior conductor. Copper Oxide on
>the other hand, is a semi conductor, a material a rectifier could
>be made of!"
><http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:QTdL4TXXESEJ:www.silveraudio.com/papers1.html+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insulat or&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>
>
>"Copper oxide is an insulator whereas silver oxide acts as a
>conductor and has 40 times the conductivity."
><http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:JEO_oR2neckJ:www.romanmfg.com/files/causes/poorecon.htm+%22silver+oxide%22+resistance+insulat or&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8>
>
>



Audiophiles give me the willies, note.

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 02:23:54 +0100, Thee Signal >
wrote:

(Goofball_star_dot_etal) wrote:
>
>>Audiophiles give me the willies, note.
>
>Is that a bad thing?
>

Heck, I just hand them in to lost property and hope the owner claims
them. There was a vicar not far from here that used to help himself to
the willies of the deceased and keep them in jars. This miffed the
relatives a bit and he was sent to prison, note. Heck, what sort of
relative would check?



Audiophiles give me the willies, note.