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Öökintölli
July 16th 03, 03:36 AM
Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony piece
of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.

My system is:

Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers

Art Audio Diavolo amp

CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp

RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge

McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners

Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck



What are the ones worth checking out?



Öökintölli

ToobZ!

Robert Casey
July 16th 03, 04:39 AM
Öökintölli wrote:

>Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony piece
>of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.
>
>My system is:
>
>Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers
>
>Art Audio Diavolo amp
>
>CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp
>
>RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge
>
>McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners
>
>Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck
>
>
>
>What are the ones worth checking out?
>
>
>
>
If you are at all handy inside audio equipment, you may try modifying your
"piece of junk Sony". Take a look at my page:
http://home.netcom.com/~wa2ise/radios/tubedac.htm

Something else to try is to load the audio op-amp outputs with a resistor
to either a positive or a negative supply, say 12 to 24V DC.
Whatever a well filtered supply of these voltage levels is
present inside the player will do.
Select the resistor so you are drawing a few ma from the op-amp
at all times thruout the entire audio waveform. This makes the
op-amp behave as if it were single ended, thus avoiding class B
crossover distortion products (which the op-amp's feedback
loop tries to correct for, but some still gets thru). Some op-amps
benefit greatly, some this doesn't help. But this is an easy mod
to try.

>
>
>
>

Nick Gorham
July 16th 03, 08:20 AM
Öökintölli wrote:

> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony piece
> of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.
>
> My system is:
>
> Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers
>
> Art Audio Diavolo amp
>
> CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp
>
> RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge
>
> McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners
>
> Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck
>
>
>
> What are the ones worth checking out?
>
>
>
> Öökintölli
>
> ToobZ!
>
>

You could try http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm, I know of someone
building one, but as yet no reports.

--
Nick

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 11:09 AM
"Öökintölli" > wrote in message


> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
> piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube
> processor.

There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never will be
such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the size of a house
or larger. What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc player
with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure
natural sound want such a thing?

dave weil
July 16th 03, 02:06 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Öökintölli" > wrote in message

>
>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
>> piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube
>> processor.
>
>There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never will be
>such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the size of a house
>or larger. What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc player
>with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
>before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure
>natural sound want such a thing?

Just to **** you off?

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 02:25 PM
"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>> tube processor.
>>
>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the
>> size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a solid
>> state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and distortion
>> enhancers slapped on, right before the output terminals. Why would
>> someone who is interested in pure natural sound want such a thing?
>
> Just to **** you off?

If you're observing that the original post was probably just a troll...

;-)

dave weil
July 16th 03, 03:11 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:25:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>>> tube processor.
>>>
>>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the
>>> size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a solid
>>> state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and distortion
>>> enhancers slapped on, right before the output terminals. Why would
>>> someone who is interested in pure natural sound want such a thing?
>>
>> Just to **** you off?
>
>If you're observing that the original post was probably just a troll...
>
>;-)
>
Or maybe they knew that you'd post a typically biased and useless
answer...

;-) (just for you, Arnold)

Ronald
July 16th 03, 03:14 PM
Again that E88CC ........ :-(

"Nick Gorham" > schreef in bericht
. ..
> Öökintölli wrote:
>
> > Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
piece
> > of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.
> >
> > My system is:
> >
> > Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers
> >
> > Art Audio Diavolo amp
> >
> > CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp
> >
> > RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge
> >
> > McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners
> >
> > Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck
> >
> >
> >
> > What are the ones worth checking out?
> >
> >
> >
> > Öökintölli
> >
> > ToobZ!
> >
> >
>
> You could try http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm, I know of someone
> building one, but as yet no reports.
>
> --
> Nick
>

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 03:15 PM
"Nick Gorham" > wrote in message

>
> You could try http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm, I know of someone
> building one, but as yet no reports.

I'm *surprised* that none of our local HTML gurus have pointed out the
incompetent design of this web site. It's pretty obvious if you click any of
the links on the home page.

Actually, I'm not surprised at all, because these losers only go into HTML
critic mode if they disagree with the author or subject matter on the site.

Öökintölli
July 16th 03, 03:19 PM
"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> There


**** off, retard.


Öökintölli

ToobZ!

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 03:24 PM
"Öökintölli" > wrote in message


> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>> There

> **** off, retard.

Thanks for the evidence required to place your IQ in the lower two digit
range.

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 03:26 PM
"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:25:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>>>> tube processor.
>>>>
>>>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>>>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be
>>>> the size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a
>>>> solid state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and
>>>> distortion enhancers slapped on, right before the output
>>>> terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure natural
>>>> sound want such a thing?
>>>
>>> Just to **** you off?
>>
>> If you're observing that the original post was probably just a
>> troll...
>>
>> ;-)
>>
> Or maybe they knew that you'd post a typically biased and useless
> answer...

As if you don't flood this place with biased and useless posts of your own,
Weil.

> ;-) (just for you, Arnold)

On that day in the distant future when you find your first clue Weil, why
not post again?

LOL!

dave weil
July 16th 03, 03:34 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:15:32 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Nick Gorham" > wrote in message

>>
>> You could try http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm, I know of someone
>> building one, but as yet no reports.
>
>I'm *surprised* that none of our local HTML gurus have pointed out the
>incompetent design of this web site. It's pretty obvious if you click any of
>the links on the home page.
>
>Actually, I'm not surprised at all, because these losers only go into HTML
>critic mode if they disagree with the author or subject matter on the site.

You mean like you're doing right now?

Thanks for pointing out a good example of such despicable behavior,
Arnold!

dave weil
July 16th 03, 03:35 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:19:39 GMT, "Öökintölli"
> wrote:

>
>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> There
>
>
>**** off, retard.
>
>
>Öökintölli
>
>ToobZ!

THAT'S what I call a preemptive strike!

dave weil
July 16th 03, 03:36 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:24:33 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Öökintölli" > wrote in message

>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> There
>
>> **** off, retard.
>
>Thanks for the evidence required to place your IQ in the lower two digit
>range.

Actually, it showed a high level of intelligence to cut you off at the
knees like that.

dave weil
July 16th 03, 03:39 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:26:03 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:25:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>>>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>>>>> tube processor.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>>>>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be
>>>>> the size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a
>>>>> solid state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and
>>>>> distortion enhancers slapped on, right before the output
>>>>> terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure natural
>>>>> sound want such a thing?
>>>>
>>>> Just to **** you off?
>>>
>>> If you're observing that the original post was probably just a
>>> troll...
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>> Or maybe they knew that you'd post a typically biased and useless
>> answer...
>
>As if you don't flood this place with biased and useless posts of your own,
>Weil.

I don't deny a certain bias some of my posts. However, I rarely diss
people that are reasonable. I usually only diss the extremists, like
you for instance.

>> ;-) (just for you, Arnold)
>
>On that day in the distant future when you find your first clue Weil, why
>not post again?

And why don't you stay out of threads in which you have no intention
of being helpful? Why pollute a simple question with your own agenda?

Robert Deutsch
July 16th 03, 03:47 PM
Dan Wright does a tube modification of (sorry!) Sony SACD players.
He's expensive, but he does excellent work. Here's the link:
http://modwright.com/products/index.php?product_id=9

Bob

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 02:36:30 GMT, "Öökintölli"
> wrote:

>Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony piece
>of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.
>
>My system is:
>
>Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers
>
>Art Audio Diavolo amp
>
>CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp
>
>RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge
>
>McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners
>
>Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck
>
>
>
>What are the ones worth checking out?
>
>
>
>Öökintölli
>
>ToobZ!
>

George M. Middius
July 16th 03, 03:48 PM
dave weil said to ****-for-Brains:

> And why don't you stay out of threads in which you have no intention
> of being helpful? Why pollute a simple question with your own agenda?

Because his toilet is stopped up again.

Ronald
July 16th 03, 03:54 PM
"George M. Middius" > schreef in bericht
...
>
>
> dave weil said to ****-for-Brains:
>
> > And why don't you stay out of threads in which you have no intention
> > of being helpful? Why pollute a simple question with your own agenda?
>
> Because his toilet is stopped up again.

So he's got a "nightmare on toilet seat"

Kalman Rubinson
July 16th 03, 04:19 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Öökintölli" > wrote in message

>
>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
>> piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube
>> processor.
>
>There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never will be
>such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the size of a house
>or larger. What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc player
>with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
>before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure
>natural sound want such a thing?

I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages. As a
result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
need.

Kal

MiNe 109
July 16th 03, 04:29 PM
In article >,
Kalman Rubinson > wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
> >"Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>
> >
> >> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
> >> piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube
> >> processor.
> >
> >There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never will be
> >such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the size of a house
> >or larger. What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc player
> >with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
> >before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure
> >natural sound want such a thing?
>
> I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
> silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages.

That's the commonly accepted view. It's Arny who is adopting a peculiar
definition.

See a similar RAO thread about "tubed cd players".

> ... As a
> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
> need.

Be prepared to have "tube-based DAC" redefined as, "solid state with a
few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on."

Stephen

Ronald
July 16th 03, 04:34 PM
> I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
> silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages. As a
> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
> need.
>
> Kal

You might be right but if you can do a tube mod your self there are
plenty candidate CD players ...... Denon DCD860 comes to mind ......

Ronald
July 16th 03, 04:36 PM
"MiNe 109" > schreef in bericht
...
> In article >,
> Kalman Rubinson > wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >"Öökintölli" > wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > >> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
> > >> piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube
> > >> processor.
> > >
> > >There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never will
be
> > >such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the size of a
house
> > >or larger. What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc
player
> > >with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
> > >before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in
pure
> > >natural sound want such a thing?
> >
> > I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
> > silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages.
>
> That's the commonly accepted view. It's Arny who is adopting a peculiar
> definition.
>
> See a similar RAO thread about "tubed cd players".
>
> > ... As a
> > result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
> > with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
> > will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
> > need.
>
> Be prepared to have "tube-based DAC" redefined as, "solid state with a
> few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on."
>
> Stephen

If you use a player with a current-output-DAC you can add a real tubed gain
stage !!

Ronald
July 16th 03, 04:39 PM
Many SACD and / or DVD players use a multy-bit DAC with a current output
again , so adding a tubed gain stage might be an option if you do some
research
before buying ....

"Öökintölli" > schreef in bericht
. ..
>
> "Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > I really hate to come to Arnie's defense
>
> **** that piece of ****.
>
> >but the use of tubes in any
> > silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages.
>
> I understand that.
>
> > As a
> > result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
> > with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
> > will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
> > need.
> >
> > Kal
>
> Any idea which ones can handle SACD and DVD?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Öökintölli
>
> ToobZ!
>
>
>

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 04:45 PM
"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:15:32 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Nick Gorham" > wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>> You could try http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm, I know of someone
>>> building one, but as yet no reports.
>>
>> I'm *surprised* that none of our local HTML gurus have pointed out
>> the incompetent design of this web site. It's pretty obvious if you
>> click any of the links on the home page.
>>
>> Actually, I'm not surprised at all, because these losers only go
>> into HTML critic mode if they disagree with the author or subject
>> matter on the site.
>
> You mean like you're doing right now?

Wrong. I'd have pointed out the incompetent design regardless of the site's
content.

> Thanks for pointing out a good example of such despicable behavior,
> Arnold!

You're just making this up as you go along, Weil.

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 04:50 PM
"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:26:03 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:25:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>>>>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>>>>>> tube processor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>>>>>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be
>>>>>> the size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a
>>>>>> solid state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and
>>>>>> distortion enhancers slapped on, right before the output
>>>>>> terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure natural
>>>>>> sound want such a thing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just to **** you off?
>>>>
>>>> If you're observing that the original post was probably just a
>>>> troll...
>>>>
>>>> ;-)
>>>>
>>> Or maybe they knew that you'd post a typically biased and useless
>>> answer...
>>
>> As if you don't flood this place with biased and useless posts of
>> your own, Weil.
>
> I don't deny a certain bias some of my posts. However, I rarely diss
> people that are reasonable.

What's the official defintion of *reasonable*, Weil. There is none - its
entirely subjective. In short you just said that you only dis people that
you feel like dissing, which we knew already. However you tried to cloak
your behavior with a positive word like "reasonable".

>I usually only diss the extremists, like you for instance.

That would be extremist in your opinion, Weil. Since you've shown yourself
again and again to be extremely backward w/r/t modern technology, that makes
you an extermist in your own right.

>>> ;-) (just for you, Arnold)
>>
>> On that day in the distant future when you find your first clue
>> Weil, why not post again?

> And why don't you stay out of threads in which you have no intention
> of being helpful?

I think that disabusing people of extremist and backward views w/r/t modern
technology is among the most helpful things that I can do.

> Why pollute a simple question with your own agenda?

It's not pollution, it's an attempt at clearing the waters of ignorant
Luddite, anti-digital, anti-solid state, anti-modern-technology extremism.

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 04:51 PM
"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:24:33 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> There
>>
>>> **** off, retard.
>>
>> Thanks for the evidence required to place your IQ in the lower two
>> digit range.
>
> Actually, it showed a high level of intelligence to cut you off at the
> knees like that.

If you think that crude epithets constitute "cutting off at the knees" Weil,
then we've got your IQ pegged at well below that of a carrot.

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 04:53 PM
"MiNe 109" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> Kalman Rubinson > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>>> tube processor.
>>>
>>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be
>>> the size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a
>>> solid state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and
>>> distortion enhancers slapped on, right before the output terminals.
>>> Why would someone who is interested in pure natural sound want such
>>> a thing?
>>
>> I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
>> silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages.
>
> That's the commonly accepted view. It's Arny who is adopting a
> peculiar definition.

There's nothing wrong with calling something what it is. Stephen, if you
think that calling walnut veneer solid walnut, please chime in.

> See a similar RAO thread about "tubed cd players".
>
>> ... As a
>> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
>> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
>> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
>> need.

> Be prepared to have "tube-based DAC" redefined as, "solid state with a
> few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on."

Which is exactly what it is. Prove otherwise if you can, Stephen.

Arny Krueger
July 16th 03, 04:54 PM
"Ronald" > wrote in message

> "MiNe 109" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>> In article >,
>> Kalman Rubinson > wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>>>> tube processor.
>>>>
>>>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>>>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be
>>>> the size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a
>>>> solid state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and
>>>> distortion enhancers slapped on, right before the output
>>>> terminals. Why would someone who is interested in
> pure
>>>> natural sound want such a thing?
>>>
>>> I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
>>> silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages.
>>
>> That's the commonly accepted view. It's Arny who is adopting a
>> peculiar definition.
>>
>> See a similar RAO thread about "tubed cd players".
>>
>>> ... As a
>>> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
>>> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
>>> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
>>> need.
>>
>> Be prepared to have "tube-based DAC" redefined as, "solid state with
>> a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on."
>>
>> Stephen
>
> If you use a player with a current-output-DAC you can add a real
> tubed gain stage !!

Which amounts to being a thermionic noise and distortion enhancer. If you
carry this thinking to the dinner table, you just add a little arsenic to
your food because it enhances the flavor.

dave weil
July 16th 03, 05:04 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:45:25 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:15:32 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Nick Gorham" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You could try http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm, I know of someone
>>>> building one, but as yet no reports.
>>>
>>> I'm *surprised* that none of our local HTML gurus have pointed out
>>> the incompetent design of this web site. It's pretty obvious if you
>>> click any of the links on the home page.
>>>
>>> Actually, I'm not surprised at all, because these losers only go
>>> into HTML critic mode if they disagree with the author or subject
>>> matter on the site.
>>
>> You mean like you're doing right now?
>
>Wrong. I'd have pointed out the incompetent design regardless of the site's
>content.

So you say. Why haven't you pointed out your *own* incompetent design
then?

BTW, the design of the noted web site would be better served by
individual pages instead of one long scrolling page. The fact that
each link takes you to the top of the page isn't particularly onerous,
and could be corrected pretty easily. I assume that's what you're
talking about in terms of "incompetence". It's still a lot easier to
get the information on that web site than trying to negotiate through
your web of information.

*Your* web sites are an alarming mishmash of formatting and design
cues, veritable Frankensteins of web sites.

>> Thanks for pointing out a good example of such despicable behavior,
>> Arnold!
>
>You're just making this up as you go along, Weil.

Nope. You're being disengenuous when you claim to to picking on this
web sitefor any other reason other than the fact that you despise tube
techonolgy. There's no other reason why you'd go to the lengths you
have to pick on a site that is generally pretty cleanly designed (from
a visual standpoint).

dave weil
July 16th 03, 05:09 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:50:02 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:26:03 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 09:25:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>>>>>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>>>>>>> tube processor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>>>>>>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be
>>>>>>> the size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a
>>>>>>> solid state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and
>>>>>>> distortion enhancers slapped on, right before the output
>>>>>>> terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure natural
>>>>>>> sound want such a thing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to **** you off?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're observing that the original post was probably just a
>>>>> troll...
>>>>>
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>
>>>> Or maybe they knew that you'd post a typically biased and useless
>>>> answer...
>>>
>>> As if you don't flood this place with biased and useless posts of
>>> your own, Weil.
>>
>> I don't deny a certain bias some of my posts. However, I rarely diss
>> people that are reasonable.
>
>What's the official defintion of *reasonable*, Weil. There is none

Then you shouldn't have used it, scientist that you claim to be.

> - its
>entirely subjective. In short you just said that you only dis people that
>you feel like dissing, which we knew already. However you tried to cloak
>your behavior with a positive word like "reasonable".

As did you. So?

>>I usually only diss the extremists, like you for instance.
>
>That would be extremist in your opinion, Weil. Since you've shown yourself
>again and again to be extremely backward w/r/t modern technology, that makes
>you an extermist in your own right.

This isn't true at all. I've got 7 CD capable devices, over 1800 mp3s,
three different means for projecting digital images on a screen, three
different digital cameras, and my car is capable of being plugged into
the local emissions testing station (thereby eliminating the sensor up
the tailpipe situation).

The fact that I still have some analog devices is moot. The fact that
I sometimes prefer vinyl to CD doesn't make me a techniphobe.

PS, I don't know what an "extermist" is, although it sounds good in
relation to mere bugs like you.

>>>> ;-) (just for you, Arnold)
>>>
>>> On that day in the distant future when you find your first clue
>>> Weil, why not post again?
>
>> And why don't you stay out of threads in which you have no intention
>> of being helpful?
>
>I think that disabusing people of extremist and backward views w/r/t modern
>technology is among the most helpful things that I can do.

You would, wouldn't you?

>> Why pollute a simple question with your own agenda?
>
>It's not pollution, it's an attempt at clearing the waters of ignorant
>Luddite, anti-digital, anti-solid state, anti-modern-technology extremism.

Tell us about having bought a turntable recently.

LOL!

Ronald
July 16th 03, 05:16 PM
"Arny Krueger" > schreef in bericht
...
> "Ronald" > wrote in message
>
> > "MiNe 109" > schreef in bericht
> > ...
> >> In article >,
> >> Kalman Rubinson > wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
> >>>>> Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
> >>>>> tube processor.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
> >>>> will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be
> >>>> the size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a
> >>>> solid state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and
> >>>> distortion enhancers slapped on, right before the output
> >>>> terminals. Why would someone who is interested in
> > pure
> >>>> natural sound want such a thing?
> >>>
> >>> I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
> >>> silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages.
> >>
> >> That's the commonly accepted view. It's Arny who is adopting a
> >> peculiar definition.
> >>
> >> See a similar RAO thread about "tubed cd players".
> >>
> >>> ... As a
> >>> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
> >>> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
> >>> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
> >>> need.
> >>
> >> Be prepared to have "tube-based DAC" redefined as, "solid state with
> >> a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on."
> >>
> >> Stephen
> >
> > If you use a player with a current-output-DAC you can add a real
> > tubed gain stage !!
>
> Which amounts to being a thermionic noise and distortion enhancer. If you
> carry this thinking to the dinner table, you just add a little arsenic to
> your food because it enhances the flavor.


So does digital anyway..........
But why do you still hang out to this NG ??

Kalman Rubinson
July 16th 03, 05:17 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:32:31 GMT, "Öökintölli"
> wrote:

>
>"Kalman Rubinson" > wrote in message
...
>> As a
>> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
>> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
>> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
>> need.

>Any idea which ones can handle SACD and DVD?

Frankly, if you want SACD and DVD and you want tubes (somewhere), you
have little choice at the moment. Sony has just announced an SACD
player with IEEE1394 digital audio output which may be the start of
the general availability and standardization for this. As that
happens, there will undoubtedly be high-end add-ons of all sorts.

Kal

Kalman Rubinson
July 16th 03, 05:18 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:34:19 +0200, "Ronald" >
wrote:

>
>> I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
>> silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages. As a
>> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
>> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
>> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
>> need.
>>
>> Kal
>
>You might be right but if you can do a tube mod your self there are
>plenty candidate CD players ...... Denon DCD860 comes to mind ......

Why bother with a CD player? Add a tube DAC if you need this feature.

Kal

Ronald
July 16th 03, 05:31 PM
DIY is so much fun !!!

"Kalman Rubinson" > schreef in bericht
...
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:34:19 +0200, "Ronald" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >> I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
> >> silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages. As a
> >> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
> >> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
> >> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
> >> need.
> >>
> >> Kal
> >
> >You might be right but if you can do a tube mod your self there are
> >plenty candidate CD players ...... Denon DCD860 comes to mind ......
>
> Why bother with a CD player? Add a tube DAC if you need this feature.
>
> Kal

MiNe 109
July 16th 03, 06:20 PM
In article >,
Kalman Rubinson > wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:34:19 +0200, "Ronald" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >> I really hate to come to Arnie's defense but the use of tubes in any
> >> silver-disc player is limited to the analog/output stages. As a
> >> result, you may have more success finding a suitable tube-based DAC
> >> with multiple inputs and controls to mate with a transport than you
> >> will in finding a tube-containing player that does everything you
> >> need.

> >You might be right but if you can do a tube mod your self there are
> >plenty candidate CD players ...... Denon DCD860 comes to mind ......
>
> Why bother with a CD player? Add a tube DAC if you need this feature.

Why bother with a tube DAC? The OP has a CAT Ultimate preamp. Plenty of
tubes there.

Stephen

Ronald
July 16th 03, 06:48 PM
> Why bother with a tube DAC? The OP has a CAT Ultimate preamp. Plenty of
> tubes there.
>
> Stephen

Passive I-V conversion sounds so much better ...... than any op-amp/SS !!
Even a step-up tranny is an option ....... without the use of a tube ....

George M. Middius
July 16th 03, 07:03 PM
Ronald said to ****-for-Brains:

> But why do you still hang out to this NG ??

"This newsgroup"?

Check your header.

MiNe 109
July 16th 03, 07:07 PM
In article >,
Kalman Rubinson > wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:20:41 GMT, MiNe 109
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Kalman Rubinson > wrote:
> >> Why bother with a CD player? Add a tube DAC if you need this feature.
> >
> >Why bother with a tube DAC?
>
> Because he asked for it. See Subject line.

He asked for a player. The DVD requirement doesn't help, but we're in a
trollish situation anyway.

Stephen

MiNe 109
July 16th 03, 07:10 PM
In article >,
"Ronald" > wrote:

> > Why bother with a tube DAC? The OP has a CAT Ultimate preamp. Plenty of
> > tubes there.

> Passive I-V conversion sounds so much better ...... than any op-amp/SS !!
> Even a step-up tranny is an option ....... without the use of a tube ....

You're reading this in RATech, aren't you?

Stephen

Ronald
July 16th 03, 07:11 PM
You're right , I didn't see the X-post .....
I picked it up on Rec.Audio.Tubes ......

"George M. Middius" > schreef in bericht
...
>
>
> Ronald said to ****-for-Brains:
>
> > But why do you still hang out to this NG ??
>
> "This newsgroup"?
>
> Check your header.
>
>

George M. Middius
July 16th 03, 07:15 PM
MiNe 109 said:

> > Passive I-V conversion sounds so much better ...... than any op-amp/SS !!
> > Even a step-up tranny is an option ....... without the use of a tube ....
>
> You're reading this in RATech, aren't you?

I knew there was an invisible newsgroup in that list. But I
thought it was the one where Krooger believes he has unfettered
license for ****fulness without fear of "humiliation".

Ronald
July 16th 03, 07:16 PM
"Arny Krueger" > schreef in bericht
...
> "Ronald" > wrote in message
>
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > schreef in bericht
> > ...
>
> >> "Ronald" > wrote in message
> >>
>
> >>> If you use a player with a current-output-DAC you can add a real
> >>> tubed gain stage !!
> >
> >> Which amounts to being a thermionic noise and distortion enhancer.
> >> If you carry this thinking to the dinner table, you just add a
> >> little arsenic to your food because it enhances the flavor.
>
> > So does digital anyway..........
>
> That's a lie.

That's your lag of background info ......

> > But why do you still hang out to this NG ??
>
> Spoken by someone who obviously can't decode the meaning of the name of
this
> newsgroup.

I didn't see the X-post .....
I picked it up on Rec.Audio.Tubes ......

Ronald .

Ronald
July 16th 03, 07:23 PM
> we're in a trollish situation anyway.
>
> Stephen

I think Öökintölli better starts some new posts without any X-posting ....
This "war" won't help him .........

Ronald .

MiNe 109
July 16th 03, 07:29 PM
In article >,
George M. Middius > wrote:

> MiNe 109 said:
>
> > > Passive I-V conversion sounds so much better ...... than any op-amp/SS !!
> > > Even a step-up tranny is an option ....... without the use of a tube ....
> >
> > You're reading this in RATech, aren't you?
>
> I knew there was an invisible newsgroup in that list. But I
> thought it was the one where Krooger believes he has unfettered
> license for ****fulness without fear of "humiliation".

That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.

Stephen

Choky
July 16th 03, 09:44 PM
****in' idiotic RAO conversation!
welcome to RATubes
we are here too ****in' civilized so we need sometimes polution from other
world................
dear Mr. Arni and satelites-why don't ya just **** off
?????????????????????????????????????????????

--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU

Robert Casey
July 17th 03, 12:31 AM
Arny Krueger wrote:

> What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc player
>with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
>before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure
>natural sound want such a thing?
>
>
>
>
Some people dislike the sound of op-amps. Some op-amps try to correct
serious defects
in their design with lots of negative feedback. The class B output
stages in many op-amps
can have traces of crossover distortion products even after NFB. Some
op-amps can
be made to act as if they are "single ended" if you connect a resistor
from the output to
either a negative or a positive supply of DC of around 20V. The
resistor should draw
current thruout the entire audio waveform.

Fred Nachbaur
July 17th 03, 01:36 AM
Arny Krueger wrote:
> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>
>
>>On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 06:09:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Öökintölli" > wrote in message

>>>
>>>
>>>>Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current
>>>>Sony piece of junk. I would also consider separate transport and
>>>>tube processor.
>>>
>>>There is no such thing as a tube optical disc player. There never
>>>will be such a thing. Were such a thing to be built, it would be the
>>>size of a house or larger. What you may find some day is a solid
>>>state optical disc player with a few thermionic noise and distortion
>>>enhancers slapped on, right before the output terminals. Why would
>>>someone who is interested in pure natural sound want such a thing?
>>
>>Just to **** you off?
>
>
> If you're observing that the original post was probably just a troll...
>
> ;-)

No, I don't think it was an intentional troll. However, I think it was
very naive of the OP to cross-post his question to r.a.o.

Oh well. I'm sure he'll know better next time.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Fred Nachbaur
July 17th 03, 01:39 AM
Arny Krueger wrote:
>> [...]
>
>
> It's not pollution, it's an attempt at clearing the waters of ignorant
> Luddite, anti-digital, anti-solid state, anti-modern-technology extremism.

Hm... I wonder... (goes to check message source)... Yup, I thought so.

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

George M. Middius
July 17th 03, 01:39 AM
Fred Nachbaur said to ****-for-Brains:

> No, I don't think it was an intentional troll. However, I think it was
> very naive of the OP to cross-post his question to r.a.o.
>
> Oh well. I'm sure he'll know better next time.

Indeed. One sliming by the Krooborg is enough for any Normal.

Fred Nachbaur
July 17th 03, 01:41 AM
Choky wrote:
> ****in' idiotic RAO conversation!
> welcome to RATubes
> we are here too ****in' civilized so we need sometimes polution from other
> world................
> dear Mr. Arni and satelites-why don't ya just **** off
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????

Well, in all fairness to Arny, Dave, and crew, it wasn't they who
crossposted to r.a.o, uk.r.a. and r.a.t.

It was rather indiscretion on the part of the original poster, which
unfortunately has been perpetuated. (And no, I won't be the one to
attempt to stop the crossposting. Doesn't work.)

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Matt Distefano
July 17th 03, 02:04 AM
"Öökintölli" > wrote in message
. ..
> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
piece
> of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.
>
> My system is:
>
> Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers
>
> Art Audio Diavolo amp
>
> CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp
>
> RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge
>
> McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners
>
> Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck
>
>
>
> What are the ones worth checking out?
>
>
>
> Öökintölli
>
> ToobZ!

If you're into DIY, there's some interesting projects described at
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1866/indexeng.htm that
would likely fit the bill.

Öökintölli
July 17th 03, 02:31 AM
"Öökintölli" > wrote in message
. ..
> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
piece
> of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.
>

I'd like to thank everyone except Arny Krueger for helping me map out my
choices for a new tube rig. It is really cool to hear from esteemed audio
personalities such as Robert Deutsch and Kalman Rubinson on Usenet. It is
too bad that they don't participate more frequently. But maybe one blessed
day someone will put a cap on Krueger and the audio groups will flourish
again. I pray for it every night.

I'm thinking of retaining my Sony DVP-NS999ES for DVD playback and getting
one of the ModWright Absolute Truth modded Sonys. (Thanks Mr. Deutsch!)

The problem is that I cannot decide whether I should go with the SCD-1 or
the XA-777ES. A friend of mine who has both without any mods says that the
SCD-1 sounds better with CD's but the XA-777ES sounds better with SACD's and
can do multi-channel SACD audio. But I'm not sure if this matters once the
mods are in place. My friend also says that the SCD-1 disc loading is
painfully slow. Anyone have experience with both machines, modded or not?

Thanks!


Öökintölli

ToobZ!

MiNe 109
July 17th 03, 03:01 AM
In article >,
Fred Nachbaur > wrote:

> MiNe 109 wrote:
> > In article >,
> > George M. Middius > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>MiNe 109 said:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Passive I-V conversion sounds so much better ...... than any op-amp/SS !!
> >>>>Even a step-up tranny is an option ....... without the use of a tube ....
> >>>
> >>>You're reading this in RATech, aren't you?
> >>
> >>I knew there was an invisible newsgroup in that list. But I
> >>thought it was the one where Krooger believes he has unfettered
> >>license for ****fulness without fear of "humiliation".
> >
> >
> > That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.
>
> Sorry, though I'm a musician and know what I-ii-V7-I means, I don't get
> the joke. ???

It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
"Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
transition".

Stephen

Kalman Rubinson
July 17th 03, 03:02 AM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:31:48 GMT, "Öökintölli"
> wrote:

> My friend also says that the SCD-1 disc loading is
>painfully slow. Anyone have experience with both machines, modded or not?

The XA777ES loads a lot faster.

Kal

Fred Nachbaur
July 17th 03, 03:20 AM
MiNe 109 wrote:

> In article >,
> Fred Nachbaur > wrote:
>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.
>>
>>Sorry, though I'm a musician and know what I-ii-V7-I means, I don't get
>>the joke. ???
>
>
> It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
> "Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
> transition".
>
> Stephen

LOL! Thanks for explaining. Now I can finally go from I-IV-V7...

.... to I.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Adam Stouffer
July 17th 03, 05:32 AM
Arny Krueger wrote:
>>If you use a player with a current-output-DAC you can add a real
>>tubed gain stage !!
>
>
> Which amounts to being a thermionic noise and distortion enhancer. If you
> carry this thinking to the dinner table, you just add a little arsenic to
> your food because it enhances the flavor.

I think you just stole the "biggest douche in the universe award" from
John Edwards.


Adam

Ronald
July 17th 03, 10:43 AM
"Kalman Rubinson" > schreef in bericht
...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:31:48 GMT, "Öökintölli"
> > wrote:
>
> > My friend also says that the SCD-1 disc loading is
> >painfully slow. Anyone have experience with both machines, modded or not?
>
> The XA777ES loads a lot faster.
>
> Kal
>

But why not go for a player that plays SACD and DVD-A ......
I don't know about the sound of such a machine yet , but it'll take away
some limits ...

Ronald .

dave weil
July 17th 03, 12:18 PM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:20:07 GMT, Fred Nachbaur
> wrote:

>
>
>MiNe 109 wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Fred Nachbaur > wrote:
>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.
>>>
>>>Sorry, though I'm a musician and know what I-ii-V7-I means, I don't get
>>>the joke. ???
>>
>>
>> It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
>> "Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
>> transition".
>>
>> Stephen
>
>LOL! Thanks for explaining. Now I can finally go from I-IV-V7...
>
>... to I.

After hitting how many bars? 12? Won't you be drunk by then?

MiNe 109
July 17th 03, 02:59 PM
In article >,
dave weil > wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:20:07 GMT, Fred Nachbaur
> > wrote:

> >MiNe 109 wrote:

> >> It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
> >> "Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
> >> transition".

> >LOL! Thanks for explaining. Now I can finally go from I-IV-V7...
> >
> >... to I.
>
> After hitting how many bars? 12? Won't you be drunk by then?

I guess that's why they call it the blues.

Stephen

Fred Nachbaur
July 17th 03, 03:19 PM
Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Fred Nachbaur" > wrote in message
>
>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>If you think that crude epithets constitute "cutting off at the
>>>knees" Weil, then we've got your IQ pegged at well below that of a
>>>carrot.
>>
>>This is getting interesting. Precisely how did you manage to determine
>>the IQ of a carrot?
>
>
> Since IQ test results are always imprecise, looking for precise means would
> always be fruitless.

Haha, good comeback.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Fred Nachbaur
July 17th 03, 03:22 PM
dave weil wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:20:07 GMT, Fred Nachbaur
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>MiNe 109 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Fred Nachbaur > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>[...]
>>>>>
>>>>>That's the one. Now for a musician joke: I-ii-V7-I.
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, though I'm a musician and know what I-ii-V7-I means, I don't get
>>>>the joke. ???
>>>
>>>
>>>It's not a good joke, but it's what I thought of when confronted by a
>>>"Passive I-V conversion". A better joke might be to call it a "dependent
>>>transition".
>>>
>>>Stephen
>>
>>LOL! Thanks for explaining. Now I can finally go from I-IV-V7...
>>
>>... to I.
>
>
> After hitting how many bars? 12? Won't you be drunk by then?

Letsh shee... I went from C to F to G7 to D7 to A7 to E7 to B7 to F#7 to
Db7 to Ab7 to Eb7 to Bb7 to F7 to...

I need to shleep now. g'nite.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Neil
July 17th 03, 04:09 PM
"Öökintölli" > wrote in message >...
> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player

I'm not aware of such a beast. If you must have tubes in your system,
they'll have to be elsewhere.

I assume that if consumer interest in SACD grows, eventually we might
see a tube SACD and/or DVD player marketed as a high-end item. (Same
goes for a DVD-Audio player, if you become interested in that later.)

>to replace my current Sony piece
> of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.

I'm no expert, but I'm not aware of any products like that for SACD
and DVD. See above.

There are a few tube CD players. You could get one of those now, and
you'd partly achieve your tube goals. You probably have many more CDs
than SACDs, so with the tube CD player you'd probably have tubes at
work most of your listening time.

After you buy the tube CD player, you could hang onto your current
Sony SACD and/or DVD gear, wait until tube SACD and DVD gear appears
(assuming it does appear), and then look at the situation at a later
date.

(I'm not taking sides in any SS vs. tubes debate. Just pointing out
that it's possible to have a tube CD player that you'll probably use
most of the time an might satisfy your goal most of the time.)

> My system is:
>
> Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers
>
> Art Audio Diavolo amp
>
> CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp
>
> RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge
>
> McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners
>
> Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck
>
>
>
> What are the ones worth checking out?
>
>
>
> Öökintölli
>
> ToobZ!

Arny Krueger
July 17th 03, 04:17 PM
"Fred Nachbaur" > wrote in message


> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Fred Nachbaur" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> If you think that crude epithets constitute "cutting off at the
>>>> knees" Weil, then we've got your IQ pegged at well below that of a
>>>> carrot.
>>>
>>> This is getting interesting. Precisely how did you manage to
>>> determine the IQ of a carrot?
>>
>>
>> Since IQ test results are always imprecise, looking for precise
>> means would always be fruitless.
>
> Haha, good comeback.

Thanks, Fred. Thanks for your good-natured response to my anti-tube
propaganda.

dave weil
July 17th 03, 05:03 PM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:17:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Fred Nachbaur" > wrote in message

>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> "Fred Nachbaur" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> If you think that crude epithets constitute "cutting off at the
>>>>> knees" Weil, then we've got your IQ pegged at well below that of a
>>>>> carrot.
>>>>
>>>> This is getting interesting. Precisely how did you manage to
>>>> determine the IQ of a carrot?
>>>
>>>
>>> Since IQ test results are always imprecise, looking for precise
>>> means would always be fruitless.
>>
>> Haha, good comeback.
>
>Thanks, Fred. Thanks for your good-natured response to my anti-tube
>propaganda.

Actually, I thought it was his "good-natured response" to your
anti-weil propoganda.

Powell
July 17th 03, 05:26 PM
"George M. Middius" wrote

> Adam Stouffer said to ****-for-Brains:
>
> > I think you just stole the "biggest douche in
> > the universe award" from John Edwards.
>
> You're making Krooger blush.
>
Your understand of secular vs theological
belief systems is woefully lacking, George.
Arny is rolling his eyes and almost certainly
isn't blushing... but I'm embarrassed
(blushing) for you :).

George M. Middius
July 17th 03, 05:29 PM
Powell said:

> > Adam Stouffer said to ****-for-Brains:
> >
> > > I think you just stole the "biggest douche in
> > > the universe award" from John Edwards.
> >
> > You're making Krooger blush.
> >
> Your understand of secular vs theological
> belief systems is woefully lacking, George.

That may be true, but with respect to you, I can take pride in the
fact that 99% of the time, people understand what I say. Your
efficacy in that continuum is somewhat lower.

> Arny is rolling his eyes and almost certainly
> isn't blushing... but I'm embarrassed
> (blushing) for you :).

Is "douche" a theological belief system in your psychedelic world?

Keith G
July 17th 03, 06:48 PM
"Neil" > wrote in message
m...
> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>...
> > Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player
>
> I'm not aware of such a beast. If you must have tubes in your system,
> they'll have to be elsewhere.


http://www.audaud.com/audaud/APR03/EQUIP/equip1APR03.html

Kalman Rubinson
July 17th 03, 07:54 PM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 18:48:16 +0100, "Keith G" >
wrote:

>"Neil" > wrote in message
m...
>> "Öökintölli" > wrote in message
>...
>> > Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player
>>
>> I'm not aware of such a beast. If you must have tubes in your system,
>> they'll have to be elsewhere.
>
>
>http://www.audaud.com/audaud/APR03/EQUIP/equip1APR03.html

No DVD on this, AFAIK.

Kal

Matt Distefano
July 19th 03, 11:32 PM
"Öökintölli" > wrote in message
. ..
> Need a really good tube CD/SACD/DVD player to replace my current Sony
piece
> of junk. I would also consider separate transport and tube processor.
>
> My system is:
>
> Brentworth Sound Lab Type IV speakers
>
> Art Audio Diavolo amp
>
> CAT SL-1 Ultimate preamp
>
> RPM-2 turntable and arm with Lyra Helikon cartridge
>
> McIntosh MR71 and MR66 tuners
>
> Tandberg TD20A SE tape deck
>
>
>
> What are the ones worth checking out?
>
>
>
> Öökintölli
>
> ToobZ!

If you're into DIY, there's some interesting projects described at
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1866/indexeng.htm that
would likely fit the bill.

Rich Andrews
July 20th 03, 06:21 AM
Robert Casey > wrote in
:

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> What you may find some day is a solid state optical disc player
>>with a few thermionic noise and distortion enhancers slapped on, right
>>before the output terminals. Why would someone who is interested in pure
>>natural sound want such a thing?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Some people dislike the sound of op-amps. Some op-amps try to correct
> serious defects
> in their design with lots of negative feedback. The class B output
> stages in many op-amps
> can have traces of crossover distortion products even after NFB. Some
> op-amps can
> be made to act as if they are "single ended" if you connect a resistor
> from the output to
> either a negative or a positive supply of DC of around 20V. The
> resistor should draw
> current thruout the entire audio waveform.
>
>

Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly every
recording made since about 1980 or so. Mixing boards have many op-amps in
them as do many distribution amps. Personally, I will take a well designed
op-amp circuit over discrete components.

r


--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."

Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

S888Wheel
July 20th 03, 08:55 AM
<<

Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly every
recording made since about 1980 or so. Mixing boards have many op-amps in
them as do many distribution amps. Personally, I will take a well designed
op-amp circuit over discrete components.

I dislike the majority of recordings made after 1980 that used mixing boards.
I'm not blaming op amps but your hypothesis is not that far from my experience.






>>

Sockpuppet Yustabe
July 20th 03, 05:25 PM
"Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
4...
> >
> >
>
> Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly every
> recording made since about 1980 or so.

Count me in.

Rich Andrews
July 20th 03, 05:46 PM
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in
:

>
> "Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
> 4...
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly every
>> recording made since about 1980 or so.
>
> Count me in.
>
>
>

Do I detect a little bit of ludditeism? (:>)

r


--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."

Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

Rich Andrews
July 21st 03, 05:23 AM
Fred Nachbaur > wrote in
:

>
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
>> .44
>>
>>>"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
4...
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly
>>>>>every recording made since about 1980 or so.
>>>>
>>>>Count me in.
>>
>>
>>>Do I detect a little bit of ludditeism? (:>)
>>
>>
>> More like a lot of trollism.
>>
>> ;-)
>
> Or maybe it's just that everything worth writing/ producing/ recording
> was completed by 1979. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Fred

I don't think so Fred. I do believe you are living proof that there are more
tunes to write. (;>)

r


--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."

Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

Arny Krueger
July 21st 03, 10:17 AM
"Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
.44
> Fred Nachbaur > wrote in
> :
>
>>
>>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> "Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
>>> .44
>>>
>>>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
>>>>> 4...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly
>>>>>> every recording made since about 1980 or so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Count me in.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Do I detect a little bit of ludditeism? (:>)
>>>
>>>
>>> More like a lot of trollism.
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>
>> Or maybe it's just that everything worth writing/ producing/
>> recording was completed by 1979. ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fred
>
> I don't think so Fred. I do believe you are living proof that there
> are more tunes to write. (;>)

LOL!

Rich Andrews
July 22nd 03, 01:16 AM
"Arny Krueger" > wrote in
:

> "Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
> .44
>> Fred Nachbaur > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> "Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
>>>> .44
>>>>
>>>>> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Rich Andrews" > wrote in message
>>>>>> 4...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those people who dislike the sound of an op-amp will hate nearly
>>>>>>> every recording made since about 1980 or so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Count me in.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Do I detect a little bit of ludditeism? (:>)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> More like a lot of trollism.
>>>>
>>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> Or maybe it's just that everything worth writing/ producing/
>>> recording was completed by 1979. ;-)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Fred
>>
>> I don't think so Fred. I do believe you are living proof that there
>> are more tunes to write. (;>)
>
> LOL!
>
>

As was said in the movie 'Buccaroo Bonzai', "...Laugh monkey boy! Laugh!"
(:>)


r



--
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."

Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - ), "Technology and the Future"

George M. Middius
July 22nd 03, 01:28 AM
Robot sasses the Krooborg.

> >> I don't think so Fred. I do believe you are living proof that there
> >> are more tunes to write. (;>)

> > LOL!

> As was said in the movie 'Buccaroo[sic] Bonzai[sic]', "...Laugh monkey boy! Laugh!"
> (:>)

Goodness me. I don't think anybody has ever confused Mr. ****
with a primate before.