Record own piano CD using computer

[Stephen Cheung]

Hi all,

I am new to this group and have a few questions regarding recording my
own piano CD using my computer.

It is actually my dad, who have played the piano for 40 years, wants
to produce some CD as presents to his friends. Last night I tried to
use my computer to record his performance. Quality is acceptable, but
I have a few questions:

1) I used only a very cheap microphone to do the recording and it is
connected to the "mic" input of the sound card. The recorded sound
always seems too low unless I amplify it using a sound software. Is
there any other good way to do this?

2) Should I borrow a Mini Disc recorder from my friends to do the
recording, and transfer the data into the computer later? How to do
this? How is the sound quality?

3) After the recording, I would need to save the file. The software
allows me to save in too many formats, and I don't know which one
should be using if I were to put it on to a CD and let most CD players
to play them. Should I save it in wav format? Which wav format is
right (there are 8 or 10 wav formats!!) I only tried to save them as
mp3, since that is the only format the CD burning software would
recognise to convert into CD audio. I tried a few wav format but the
CD software ("Ahead Nero", actually) couldn't recognise them at all.

4) Further to question 3, the first experimental CD I made could only
be played in my mini-hi-fi that has specified as "CD/RW playback". How
can I make it so that it could be played in even normal CD players?

Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!

Stephen

[GregS]

In article >, (Stephen Cheung) wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I am new to this group and have a few questions regarding recording my
>own piano CD using my computer.
>
>It is actually my dad, who have played the piano for 40 years, wants
>to produce some CD as presents to his friends. Last night I tried to
>use my computer to record his performance. Quality is acceptable, but
>I have a few questions:
>
>1) I used only a very cheap microphone to do the recording and it is
>connected to the "mic" input of the sound card. The recorded sound
>always seems too low unless I amplify it using a sound software. Is
>there any other good way to do this?

Microphone type and placement will make a big difference in sound quality.
Read up on the subject. I would buy or rent a small mic mixer to boost the gain.
Get a bettter mic. or a different mic if ned be.

>2) Should I borrow a Mini Disc recorder from my friends to do the
>recording, and transfer the data into the computer later? How to do
>this? How is the sound quality?

I don't think so.


>3) After the recording, I would need to save the file. The software
>allows me to save in too many formats, and I don't know which one
>should be using if I were to put it on to a CD and let most CD players
>to play them. Should I save it in wav format? Which wav format is
>right (there are 8 or 10 wav formats!!) I only tried to save them as
>mp3, since that is the only format the CD burning software would
>recognise to convert into CD audio. I tried a few wav format but the
>CD software ("Ahead Nero", actually) couldn't recognise them at all.
>
>4) Further to question 3, the first experimental CD I made could only
>be played in my mini-hi-fi that has specified as "CD/RW playback". How
>can I make it so that it could be played in even normal CD players?

I don't know the formats either, but wave is the right choice. Buy CD-R's
They will play back better than CD-RW.

greg

[Matt Distefano]

"Stephen Cheung" > wrote in message
om...
> Hi all,
>
> I am new to this group and have a few questions regarding recording my
> own piano CD using my computer.
>
> It is actually my dad, who have played the piano for 40 years, wants
> to produce some CD as presents to his friends. Last night I tried to
> use my computer to record his performance. Quality is acceptable, but
> I have a few questions:
>
> 1) I used only a very cheap microphone to do the recording and it is
> connected to the "mic" input of the sound card. The recorded sound
> always seems too low unless I amplify it using a sound software. Is
> there any other good way to do this?

My suggestion would be to get a decent microphone and a small mixer with
microphone inputs. Hook the mics into the mixer, and the mixer into the line
input of the sound card. The mixer should have some gain circuitry that can
be adjusted to bring the volume level up to where you want it. It might also
have a headphone output, which might allow for easier monitoring, etc.
Additionally, you could experiment with using multiple mics.

The 'mic' input on a sound card is generally a no-no for any sort of even
semi-serious recording, for various reasons.

I'd also suggest, if you haven't already, searching around on the web for a
guide on micing pianos. You could be losing volume and dynamics from poor
placement of the mic as well.

Finally, assuming you're using Windows, check the recording properties of
the volume applet and make sure that your 'mic' input is set to its max
volume and no other inputs are selected. If there's a master recording
volume, kick that up too.

> 2) Should I borrow a Mini Disc recorder from my friends to do the
> recording, and transfer the data into the computer later? How to do
> this? How is the sound quality?

The MD recorder might not be a bad idea, depending on whether your computer
has a digital optical input compatible with the output the MD recorder
presumbly has.

Recording into a computer can be something of a pain. The computer itself
presents a lot of noise, both of the audible and EMI/RFI variety. So when
you record into the computer, your mic not only picks up the background
noise of hard drives and fans, but the sound card picks up a lot of
interference from inside the computer as well, and both of these will likely
be audible on the recording (especially if you're having to boost the volume
of the recording in software). One way to work around this is to use
something like a MD recorder, and then transfer your recording digitally to
the computer over an optical link. The MD recorder is hopefully less noisy
to begin with, and the digital transfer over the optical connection should
be pretty clean as well. This of course would require a sound card with a
compatible digital input, though.

>
> 3) After the recording, I would need to save the file. The software
> allows me to save in too many formats, and I don't know which one
> should be using if I were to put it on to a CD and let most CD players
> to play them. Should I save it in wav format? Which wav format is
> right (there are 8 or 10 wav formats!!) I only tried to save them as
> mp3, since that is the only format the CD burning software would
> recognise to convert into CD audio. I tried a few wav format but the
> CD software ("Ahead Nero", actually) couldn't recognise them at all.

Yes, wav would be best. I think the 44.1 kHz 16-bit stereo PCM format is
what Nero would look for, though I'm not really sure.

If you're burning to CD, avoid saving anything as an MP3, as there will be a
reduction in quality.

>
> 4) Further to question 3, the first experimental CD I made could only
> be played in my mini-hi-fi that has specified as "CD/RW playback". How
> can I make it so that it could be played in even normal CD players?

I would assume that you didn't close the disk when you were finished
recording. There should be an option for that. Something along the lines of
"Close this disk? Closing the disk will prevent you from adding further
tracks or erasing data." Something along those lines anyway. Probably best
to check the Nero help.

That said, some CD players are just bitchy about playing any sort of
home-burnt CD

>
> Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!
>
> Stephen

[Bubba]

"GregS" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
(Stephen Cheung) wrote:
> >Hi all,

> I don't know the formats either, but wave is the right choice. Buy CD-R's
> They will play back better than CD-RW.
>
> greg

What makes you say that CD-R will sound better than CD-RW?

[Dave Platt]

>> I don't know the formats either, but wave is the right choice. Buy CD-R's
>> They will play back better than CD-RW.
>>
>> greg
>
>What makes you say that CD-R will sound better than CD-RW?

He didn't say "sound better", he said "play back better".

The lower reflectivity of CD-RW discs makes them hard for many CD
players to play back... they're somewhat more prone to mistrack, or to
play back with audible errors.

Older players can't handle CD-RW discs at all, because their
reflectivity / contrast is so far below that of a Red Book
"manufactured" CD.

--
Dave Platt > AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Nick H (UK)]

Bubba wrote:
> "GregS" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>In article >,
>
> (Stephen Cheung) wrote:
>
>>>Hi all,
>>
>
>>I don't know the formats either, but wave is the right choice. Buy CD-R's
>>They will play back better than CD-RW.
>>
>>greg
>
>
> What makes you say that CD-R will sound better than CD-RW?
>

I read his 'better' as 'more reliably on a wider range of equipment'
rather than 'sound better'.

They will cost less, too :-)

Nick H. (UK)


>
>

[Richard D Pierce]

In article >,
Bubba > wrote:
>
>"GregS" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
(Stephen Cheung) wrote:
>> >Hi all,
>
>> I don't know the formats either, but wave is the right choice. Buy CD-R's
>> They will play back better than CD-RW.
>>
>> greg
>
>What makes you say that CD-R will sound better than CD-RW?

He didn't say "will sound better," did he? He said "play back
better." Means something different.

A large number of CD players simply will not play back CD-RWs,
while they will play back CD-Rs.

Now, if your definition of "sound better" is "plays at all" then
yes, a working CD-R will sound MUCH better than a non-working
CD-RW.

--
| Dick Pierce |
| Professional Audio Development |
| 1-781/826-4953 Voice and FAX |
| |

[Stephen Cheung]

Thanks Matt for your patience in explaining all these, especially
pointing me to research on micing pianos and the wav format. I will
try your suggestions, but I know my computer only has a integrated
sound card :( so no optical link would be available for sure. I need
to re-think on the MD idea.

I also found that the recording picked up some high frequencies noise,
may be, as you said, they are noise from the computer. So I might need
a mixer to boost up or something. Quite some research and experiment
for me!

Thanks again!

Stephen


"Matt Distefano" > wrote in message news:<HRUVa.20327$uu5.2698@sccrnsc04>...
> "Stephen Cheung" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am new to this group and have a few questions regarding recording my
> > own piano CD using my computer.
> >
> > It is actually my dad, who have played the piano for 40 years, wants
> > to produce some CD as presents to his friends. Last night I tried to
> > use my computer to record his performance. Quality is acceptable, but
> > I have a few questions:
> >
> > 1) I used only a very cheap microphone to do the recording and it is
> > connected to the "mic" input of the sound card. The recorded sound
> > always seems too low unless I amplify it using a sound software. Is
> > there any other good way to do this?
>
> My suggestion would be to get a decent microphone and a small mixer with
> microphone inputs. Hook the mics into the mixer, and the mixer into the line
> input of the sound card. The mixer should have some gain circuitry that can
> be adjusted to bring the volume level up to where you want it. It might also
> have a headphone output, which might allow for easier monitoring, etc.
> Additionally, you could experiment with using multiple mics.
>
> The 'mic' input on a sound card is generally a no-no for any sort of even
> semi-serious recording, for various reasons.
>
> I'd also suggest, if you haven't already, searching around on the web for a
> guide on micing pianos. You could be losing volume and dynamics from poor
> placement of the mic as well.
>
> Finally, assuming you're using Windows, check the recording properties of
> the volume applet and make sure that your 'mic' input is set to its max
> volume and no other inputs are selected. If there's a master recording
> volume, kick that up too.
>
> > 2) Should I borrow a Mini Disc recorder from my friends to do the
> > recording, and transfer the data into the computer later? How to do
> > this? How is the sound quality?
>
> The MD recorder might not be a bad idea, depending on whether your computer
> has a digital optical input compatible with the output the MD recorder
> presumbly has.
>
> Recording into a computer can be something of a pain. The computer itself
> presents a lot of noise, both of the audible and EMI/RFI variety. So when
> you record into the computer, your mic not only picks up the background
> noise of hard drives and fans, but the sound card picks up a lot of
> interference from inside the computer as well, and both of these will likely
> be audible on the recording (especially if you're having to boost the volume
> of the recording in software). One way to work around this is to use
> something like a MD recorder, and then transfer your recording digitally to
> the computer over an optical link. The MD recorder is hopefully less noisy
> to begin with, and the digital transfer over the optical connection should
> be pretty clean as well. This of course would require a sound card with a
> compatible digital input, though.
>
> >
> > 3) After the recording, I would need to save the file. The software
> > allows me to save in too many formats, and I don't know which one
> > should be using if I were to put it on to a CD and let most CD players
> > to play them. Should I save it in wav format? Which wav format is
> > right (there are 8 or 10 wav formats!!) I only tried to save them as
> > mp3, since that is the only format the CD burning software would
> > recognise to convert into CD audio. I tried a few wav format but the
> > CD software ("Ahead Nero", actually) couldn't recognise them at all.
>
> Yes, wav would be best. I think the 44.1 kHz 16-bit stereo PCM format is
> what Nero would look for, though I'm not really sure.
>
> If you're burning to CD, avoid saving anything as an MP3, as there will be a
> reduction in quality.
>
> >
> > 4) Further to question 3, the first experimental CD I made could only
> > be played in my mini-hi-fi that has specified as "CD/RW playback". How
> > can I make it so that it could be played in even normal CD players?
>
> I would assume that you didn't close the disk when you were finished
> recording. There should be an option for that. Something along the lines of
> "Close this disk? Closing the disk will prevent you from adding further
> tracks or erasing data." Something along those lines anyway. Probably best
> to check the Nero help.
>
> That said, some CD players are just bitchy about playing any sort of
> home-burnt CD
>
> >
> > Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!
> >
> > Stephen

[Stephen Cheung]

Hi all,

Thanks for your concerns. To clarify, I am actually using CD-R only. I
mention CD-RW because that's what is written on the hi-fi. But I know
I have another CD player couldn't play home-burnt CD. May be that's
the nature of that particular player...

Thanks!


"Nick H (UK)" > wrote in message >...
> Bubba wrote:
> > "GregS" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>In article >,
> >
> > (Stephen Cheung) wrote:
> >
> >>>Hi all,
> >>
>
> >>I don't know the formats either, but wave is the right choice. Buy CD-R's
> >>They will play back better than CD-RW.
> >>
> >>greg
> >
> >
> > What makes you say that CD-R will sound better than CD-RW?
> >
>
> I read his 'better' as 'more reliably on a wider range of equipment'
> rather than 'sound better'.
>
> They will cost less, too :-)
>
> Nick H. (UK)
>
>
> >
> >

[Laurence Payne]

>What makes you say that CD-R will sound better than CD-RW?

They won't, if they play at all on any particular audio cd unit.

The point is that CD-R play on almost all audio players. CD-RW play
on many audio players, but you can't complain if they don't. CD-RW is
not within the physical specification for an audio cd.

[Arny Krueger]

"Stephen Cheung" > wrote in message
om
> Hi all,
>
> I am new to this group and have a few questions regarding recording my
> own piano CD using my computer.
>
> It is actually my dad, who have played the piano for 40 years, wants
> to produce some CD as presents to his friends. Last night I tried to
> use my computer to record his performance. Quality is acceptable, but
> I have a few questions:
>
> 1) I used only a very cheap microphone to do the recording and it is
> connected to the "mic" input of the sound card. The recorded sound
> always seems too low unless I amplify it using a sound software. Is
> there any other good way to do this?

The *right* way to do this is to use a good microphone and a good mic preamp
and use the line level inputs of a good sound card.

Here's the cheapest good microphone for piano recording that I can
recommend:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030730152517068042249002977795/g=hom
e/search/detail/base_id/43297

You can hear a recording made with this mic under the top of a grand piano
at

http://www.pcavtech.com/test_data/faith-bless-mix02-cd.wav

Slow download, not the best playing, but its a sample of what can be done.

You'll need mic stand(s) as well, probably boom stands if you want to mic
inside the piano. These are reasonably inexpensive.

A common means that is used to obtain cheap but decent mic preamps is to us
a small recording console. Here is cheapest recording console for piano
recording that I can recommend:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030730152517068042249002977795/g=liv
e/s=mixers/search/detail/base_pid/631237/


> 2) Should I borrow a Mini Disc recorder from my friends to do the
> recording, and transfer the data into the computer later? How to do
> this? How is the sound quality?

Minidisc recording isn't bad, but it is lossy compression which limits sound
quality and also can produce undesirable interactions if you later try to
encode your recordings as MP3s.

> 3) After the recording, I would need to save the file. The software
> allows me to save in too many formats, and I don't know which one
> should be using if I were to put it on to a CD and let most CD players
> to play them. Should I save it in wav format?

Yes, use .wav format.

> Which wav format is
> right (there are 8 or 10 wav formats!!)

44,100 Hz sampling, 16 bit samples, two channels.

> I only tried to save them as
> mp3, since that is the only format the CD burning software would
> recognise to convert into CD audio. I tried a few wav format but the
> CD software ("Ahead Nero", actually) couldn't recognise them at all.

Nero loves to record .wav files with 44,100 Hz sampling, 16 bit samples, and
two channels.

> 4) Further to question 3, the first experimental CD I made could only
> be played in my mini-hi-fi that has specified as "CD/RW playback". How
> can I make it so that it could be played in even normal CD players?

Use CD-R blanks. Most but not all regular CD players play CD-Rs just fine.